Defective or Disappointing UK Anime Discs

[Emulsion]

I don't think there's any need to cancel Kill La Kill since Masters already exist which Anime LTD can use, unlike this scenario where everything has been done themselves.

But wasn't there masters already for Gurren? I mean it came out in Japan some time back and although it doesn't have the English 5.1 and I don't believe it has the signs track, I don't recall reading about any audio issues with the Japanese track nor any video issues.

If there's no video issues with the master video files that the Japanese used to create their Blu-rays from, and assuming AL used the same masters, then the errors would more than likely been introduced when encoding the video, meaning the authoring house has cocked it up.

 

[Mangaranga]

I remember one response to me when I mentioned audio problems on the test discs. That some parts (non dialogue) were in mono and couldn't be changed. So that may be why the Japanese side is having issues still.

I don't understand how/why they received mono - or at least partially mono audio. I compared it to the audio from the JP BD as well as the Bandai DVD, and AL's BD is the only one with issues.

I don't think there's any need to cancel Kill La Kill since Masters already exist which Anime LTD can use, unlike this scenario where everything has been done themselves.

But wasn't there masters already for Gurren? I mean it came out in Japan some time back and although it doesn't have the English 5.1 and I don't believe it has the signs track, I don't recall reading about any audio issues with the Japanese track nor any video issues.

If there's no video issues with the master video files that the Japanese used to create their Blu-rays from, and assuming AL used the same masters, then the errors would more than likely been introduced when encoding the video, meaning the authoring house has cocked it up.

I could be completely wrong here, but don't the licensors just supply the individual files? (Not the m2ts files, just the individual audio/video/subtitle tracks) It's not like going to Funimation and asking for the disc images where everything's all done up for you, It's up to the authoring house to put everything together and make sure everything is timed correctly.

 

[Rosencrantz]

Considering this is an ultimate edition and the fact they sent check discs out to fans for extra quality control, I was hoping there wouldn't be any issues.

Same here considering I actually checked the discs and have a txt file full of issues with it. I don't mind spending the time doing QC (and trust me, I went full OCD with it e.g. down to roughly how many ms the audio was out of sync by), but major issues like these should have been fixed before the product went to retail. Going by my original notes, the only episodes without issues in the Japanese audio track are episodes 17 - 22. Worse still, I'm not expecting a fix because there's potentially a lot of work to be done as a whole, but if these discs are ever re-authored like Bebop or DRRR, that's 4 BD50's that are going to have to be redone.

It's clear you have put a lot of effort into checking the discs so it's disappointing to see that they don't appear to have followed up on your efforts.

 

[elaniel]

Audio was in stems, not a final mix. Not sure on the full specifics, but they certainly weren't delivered a full and final audio mix.
The English 5.1 mix was also an upmix by Bandai.

 

[antonusklesk]

I've seen Gurren Lagann before, when it first aired, and while I can be pretty OCD about certain things, other than certain shots where the video looks awful for a few seconds, the majority of what I've seen of the final discs has been wonderful.

I'm up to episode 14 I believe, and I've not noticed any issues with the audio above and beyond what is typical of 2.0 Japanese tracks personally, so the audio issues must be passing me by. Yes the video issues are odd, very odd, but they are quite rare and haven't affected my enjoyment of the show anywhere near as much as say, poor chapter marking can.

That being said I don't know why the video in the poor sections is as bad as it is....it really is awful for a few seconds, like its from a 640x480 source! But 99.9% of the video is lovely, a great image with good detail and colour.

 

[NormanicGrav]

I hate to be the one to break the news and it's quite concerning. There's still many defects with Gurren Lagann that haven't been fixed. Major Defects.
Unless it's been something with my setup, the Japanese audio for each episode is tinny and low quality (Compare it to the French track if you don't believe me). This varies by episode, and I've only re-checked disc 1 so far. e.g. episodes 1-5 sound as I've just described, but episodes 6-8 the issue seems to only apply to sound effects. There's two video capture errors on disc 1 alone which were not fixed despite the fact that the video has been redone and looks much better than before. The two capture errors are at Episode 5 @20:47 - 20:56 and Episode 7 @ 8:29 - 8:42 - with an audio skip at the start and end of the clip, leaving you with low quality interlaced video with compression artifacts throughout. There's also an audio skip in episode 9 which seems to have been partially fixed @~6:27.

I wasn't planning to, but it looks like I may well be importing Aniplex's singles. I honestly don't know how to feel...

Wow, that sounds bad.

I guess the best solution now for Anime Limited is to wait for Aniplex to re-release the series and grab their masters instead (though the audio would be different I assume [LPCM 2.0 instead of DTS-HD MA 5.1]).

 

[Emulsion]

I could be completely wrong here, but don't the licensors just supply the individual files? (Not the m2ts files, just the individual audio/video/subtitle tracks).

I would assume so. Going on that post cast where the guy was talking about authoring, I recall him saying the videos arrive on HDD's and are 100GB on per episode, or something along those lines, can't recall exactly. So what I meant was, if that's the case and assuming the Japanese used the same files to do their encodes and there is none of these glitches on the Japanese release it would mean the authoring house cocked the encodes up on the UK release.

I'm only taking a guess here though. Can't see the licensors would send them files with glitches in.

 

[Mangaranga]

I would assume so. Going on that post cast where the guy was talking about authoring, I recall him saying the videos arrive on HDD's and are 100GB on per episode, or something along those lines, can't recall exactly. So what I meant was, if that's the case and assuming the Japanese used the same files to do their encodes and there is none of these glitches on the Japanese release it would mean the authoring house cocked the encodes up on the UK release.

I'm only taking a guess here though. Can't see the licensors would send them files with glitches in.

I don't think the licensors send the same materials that they use for their release. Sometimes it's down to the encoding, but we seem to see scenarios where companies are receiving inferior materials to work with - most likely to try and minimize reverse importing.
You also have to remember that it's going through an encoder at both ends, so there's going to be some quality degregation, and if there's any issues in the Japanese encodes it's going to carry over.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that's why the likes of Berserk, Psycho Pass and Gargantia look so bad.

Audio was in stems, not a final mix. Not sure on the full specifics, but they certainly weren't delivered a full and final audio mix.
The English 5.1 mix was also an upmix by Bandai.

I know this isn't related to Gurren Lagann in any way, but the creditless Openings and Endings on the US release of Gargantia suffer from the exact same audio issue as the Gurren episodes.
Maybe this isn't exactly a new thing - but that said I sure haven't run into it before now.

 

[cyborg 002]

Thanks for the news on Gurren Lagann, Mangaranga.

Flaws like this will make me pass on this releases. I planned on getting the Ultimated released in November. Now I won't get it at all.

I will wait for the Aniplex re-release... If it's any better.


You mention Berserk, Psycho Pass and Gargantia, could you please tell me if it's the UK releases or the US releases that are of poor quality?

I have not bought either Berserk, Psycho Pass or Gargantia and would very much like to know what to avoid.

 

[Emulsion]

The UK and US release of Psycho Pass use the same video I believe. There was a couple of times where the image got a bit blocky for a second or so, the bitrate dropped to around 0.3MB, but this didn't really happen that much from what I recall, a few times in total. The main issue with Psycho Pass was the banding, and there was a lot.

 

[cyborg 002]

The UK and US release of Psycho Pass use the same video I believe. There was a couple of times where the image got a bit blocky for a second or so, the bitrate dropped to around 0.3MB, but this didn't really happen that much from what I recall, a few times in total. The main issue with Psycho Pass was the banding, and there was a lot.

Thanks for the info.

Banding, that sucks.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Luckily for me that because i pre-ordered the Ultimate Edition awhile ago on Amazon, it meant that the debit card they were using was canceled before i got my new one a few months ago. After seeing and reading about the comments on this thread, i don't think i'll risk bothering with the release now. But since i've got 5 days to sort that out i think i'll wait and see what Andrew's reactions are first

 

[Mangaranga]

I will wait for the Aniplex re-release... If it's any better.

Aniplex always use the same video/audio as the JP BDs, so it'll be exactly the same as the Japanese BD Box.

You mention Berserk, Psycho Pass and Gargantia, could you please tell me if it's the UK releases or the US releases that are of poor quality?

Psycho Pass/Berserk - UK/US - Very noticeable banding everywhere.
Gargantia - US & Presumably UK - Lots of Noise/Banding and looks a bit washed out. People reckon Viz got duff masters for this one.

 

[Joshawott]

As the discussion has somewhat went back to Psycho-Pass, I might as well ask this: Outside of the Japanese releases (which don't have subtitles ><), are there any English-language releases that aren't awful? Because I'd like to own the show on home video, but with both the US and UK blu-rays having bad banding...

 

[cyborg 002]

I will wait for the Aniplex re-release... If it's any better.

Aniplex always use the same video/audio as the JP BDs, so it'll be exactly the same as the Japanese BD Box.

You mention Berserk, Psycho Pass and Gargantia, could you please tell me if it's the UK releases or the US releases that are of poor quality?

Psycho Pass/Berserk - UK/US - Very noticeable banding everywhere.
Gargantia - US & Presumably UK - Lots of Noise/Banding and looks a bit washed out. People reckon Viz got duff masters for this one.

Thanks for the info.

 

[fabio de lunatico]

Just a note on Gargantia: in my opinion the Manga UK release looks a lot better than the Viz release. Some darker scenes are affected by banding, but unlike Psycho Pass, for example, Gargantia is a not a show that employs a dark colour palette too often. I thought it was a very impressive looking transfer.

 

[anime_andrew]

I hate to be the one to break the news and it's quite concerning. There's still many defects with Gurren Lagann that haven't been fixed. Major Defects.
Unless it's been something with my setup, the Japanese audio for each episode is tinny and low quality (Compare it to the French track if you don't believe me). This varies by episode, and I've only re-checked disc 1 so far. e.g. episodes 1-5 sound as I've just described, but episodes 6-8 the issue seems to only apply to sound effects. There's two video capture errors on disc 1 alone which were not fixed despite the fact that the video has been redone and looks much better than before. The two capture errors are at Episode 5 @20:47 - 20:56 and Episode 7 @ 8:29 - 8:42 - with an audio skip at the start and end of the clip, leaving you with low quality interlaced video with compression artifacts throughout. There's also an audio skip in episode 9 which seems to have been partially fixed @~6:27.

I wasn't planning to, but it looks like I may well be importing Aniplex's singles. I honestly don't know how to feel...

Wow, that sounds bad.

I guess the best solution now for Anime Limited is to wait for Aniplex to re-release the series and grab their masters instead (though the audio would be different I assume [LPCM 2.0 instead of DTS-HD MA 5.1]).

I've looked into the audio issue as we used what was supplied - it sounds like based on investigation it may be a decoder issue on that one as one reviewer suggested that (for us it's quieter but not tinny nor could the authoring house replicate it on multiple QCs).

Re capture errors - I'm afraid what you linked are issues that were there even on the source material for the first one and the second isn't a capture error but a fix to a tape that was drastically out of sync that had to be lifted from the TV eps. We were supplied no moving video for that portion so the authoring house had to patch in under a minute of DVD footage and yes it shows - but it beats no movement at all and being stuck on that frame.

On the video front - much as I'm normally the first to launch off the handle if something isn't ideal, the two points raised are very isolated things that you won't find elsewhere and I strongly don't believe they take away from the overall experience. Let me look into the audio point again to be sure - but would be interested to hear from others too .

Best,

AP,
Sorry if I've missed anything, but have just finished two weeks of SLA and am exhausted, but have MCM prep to do tomorrow inc all the PR!

 

[elaniel]

Thanks for the responses Andrew. Appreciated, especially after such a chaotic fortnight you seem to have had!

I do think sometimes people nitpick a bit too much. I figured that most of the issues would be source / materials issues and that's understandable. For a 26 episode and 2 film release, I think there are only a few very minor issues that seem to have been picked out.

Should we be excited for anything new from MCM?

 

[anime_andrew]

I think it's unfair to place the blame solely on Anime Limited. They aren't the ones authoring the discs. It's really the authoring house which should have rectified the issues as they're the ones putting everything together - and these issues would have gone off to them. You can tell that some of the issues have been fixed - e.g. some of the audio has been retimed correctly - but there's still some timing issues which remain like the audio for the Creditless ending for episode 16 being just over half a second late. Things like that I can maybe understand missing on a final QC pass, but missing issues like the video and audio errors are beyond me.

I don't think there's any need to cancel Kill La Kill since Masters already exist which Anime LTD can use, unlike this scenario where everything has been done themselves.

Maybe I'm over-reacting, but I've not long came back to watching anime after years, and having never seen it before I can't tell you how excited I was to finally see Gurren Lagann, this has now dampened my enthusiasm somewhat.

I don't understand the authoring process all that well so I'll take your word for it as you'd know better than me, I just assumed that after errors had been "fixed" they would have checked them again. It is good to know that Kill la Kill is being done elsewhere so I will keep my order, but that doesn't change the fact I will now think twice about pre-ordering Anime Limited products, which is a shame because I love what they're trying to do.

With all that being said, I'm sure I'll still enjoy the show, and I'm sure I'll get over it, but I'm still pretty disappointed this has happened again with a Anime Limited release I was excited to see (Other being Durarara!!).

I think this is a pretty gross exaggeration really:

1. Kill la Kill is using new masters, supplied as part of international live activity just now.

2. Gurren materials were not so well kept even after the JP/US release and reactivity for re-delivery was super low.

Now the audio files were a real mystery on my end - they actually play fine on both office devices and it sounds like an issue with use of a Prologic II decoder possibly as yes the audio is a bit quieter, but we've not picked up noticeable tinniness after it was flagged and we did check very heavily including asking the authoring house to re-examine and it came up again clean. Battery testing isn't easy to arrange on small print runs so we have to rely on what devices we have to hand here too. Will look into it but again when in office though to be sure .

The things being listed as capture errors are actually fixes to problems found with the tapes - the result being lower quality but no video skips. These weren't mere points the tapes had errors on but places there simply was no footage supplied, as no new tapes were available we had to make do and patch from the DVD. So the implication we created a "new capture" error is off the mark and pretty hurtful- we had to make a difficult call between nothing there or something in a very small number of seconds in scenes. It should not detract from the overall experience and my greatest apologies if anyone does.

Hope this helps and my apologies if it's not the best written given the time I've put it together!

Best,

Andrew

 

[anime_andrew]

Thanks for the responses Andrew. Appreciated, especially after such a chaotic fortnight you seem to have had!

I do think sometimes people nitpick a bit too much. I figured that most of the issues would be source / materials issues and that's understandable. For a 26 episode and 2 film release, I think there are only a few very minor issues that seem to have been picked out.

Should we be excited for anything new from MCM?

No problem at all - this project was close to me and we spent a lot of time on it including a whole re-encode of the video to raise the bit-rate based on feedback so I like to clarify what's going on before folks burn me at ye olde stake!

Will have a post re MCM tomorrow - expect some sales, some license announcements and a lot of cool promo for Space Dandy!

Best,

AP