Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion at the BBFC
- Thread starter Just Passing Through
- Start date
unellmay said:
Isn't that going to be £140 for a 50-52 ep series though? i mean in the past people paid silly ammounts for the first release of the Evangelion Platinum set and that was almost £100 for 26 eps.
Also it will only be £140 if the prices stay the same (in the past amazon have undercut Play on things like this so you could get it cheaper)
Besides this could be a lot worse, we could pay what the japanese have to pay for their anime dvds...
also what's a picture drama episode?
unellmay said:Do you think japan ever imports their anime ?
The hardcore do. If you know the right places to look you can find R1 discs in the big cities (in the day of VHS you could find subbed tapes too if you looked hard enough).
It's confined mostly to the most hardcore though. A minority of a minority, since in Japan DVD sales aren't a large market to begin with.
R
beez_andrew
Great Teacher
Aion said:
Actually make that pushed for it and have now got it. I spent a long time last night putting together a case for lowering the price in my own time and we agreed this morning to move ahead with it. You'll be seeing a price drop RRP to £39.99 in the next week or so and all going well retailers will reflect this change also shortly.
For the record though, £70 for a 26 episode series works out to the same price you'd pay for a 6 DVD release from MVM online Aion
. Whether you would pay for the volumes individually or not does not make the pricing of this a joke, you would expect to wait extra time for a cheaper boxset which is exactly what you would have to do with Code Geass otherwise so I advise saving your bile for a time there's a decent reason behind it rather than another jab at Beez.Also I didn't see you particularly railing out against MVM when they released Black Lagoon in that manner initially before they did a cheaper boxset later. The only difference is that in this case it's split into two packages instead of spread over 6 DVDs.
I spent several hours of (unpaid) overtime of my day on this based on what was pretty well structured feedback right up until a chunk of the posts following my comments as well as my own feelings for the matter. What do I get when I come back to tell people the good news, accusations of milking the UK fans for everything they're worth on popular titles while I'm doing so? Once again demonstrating why many more industry representatives don't step foot on forums by and large.
Here's a few points while I am here:
Point 1: We're not doing so to be harsh - financially if you look at the profit and loss figures for a 3 disc or even a 2 disc release then you need to sell a lot at RRP to make up the numbers often when you factor in advertising costs etc depending on quality of release and who you use to manufacture etc.
£44.99 was a conservative number produced by someone used to dealing in Euros vs Pounds and I did argue against it initially, now I've pushed it down to on the lower side of an MVM price release in line with meeting a half way point with fans.
[n]Point 2:[/b] Having brought our prices down to £39.99 RRP (same RRP as a 12 episode boxset of Full Metal Panic Fumoffu and other 12-13 episode shows in general) - if you bought it in the shops for that price you'd be getting it for actually cheaper per DVD than an MVM release (£13.33 vs £14.99). Online this will likely become £10 a DVD instead
.Point 3: We're working on whatever we can based on fan feedback. You said you wanted half season releases - we've done that. Didn't like the price on Code Geass? I went and spent my own time on not only making a case about it and getting it changed. Consistently we are the only company that comes to you and ASKS directly what you think, not when and where it's convenient for us and not just to take praise for a fantastic release and ignore negative comments but because both I and the rest of the staff at Beez genuinely care about what you as fans want.
What I ask for in return is a bit of respect and patience from you.
I hope this reduction shows both my own and Beez's dedication to listening to the fans directly as I had to move quickly and stake quite a lot personally on doing this before the prices get locked down next week. That said, quite frankly with the reception I'm getting after promising to do so, I'm not entirely sure it's worth my effort doing so in future!
Have a good weekend all anyway
.- Andrew
PS While we're here, have the Sword of the Stranger 2-DVD limited edition release for £12.99 ^^. When the print run ends it likely will go to a 1-DVD version instead.
PPS Aion: I suggest you get your facts right. I'm not French for starters so Mr French is an incorrect name and really pretty rude - let's try my actual name, Andrew, instead.
ayase
State Alchemist
Good luck trying to get Aion to change his behaviour Andrew... I'd suggest you do what the rest of us have learned to do, which is engage him when he's being reasonable and ignore him when he isn't.
Do people see what I meant on another thread about the negative being dwelt on by both parties in the fan / distributor relationship though? I don't like the way Aion and unellmay have behaved here, but nor do I much like Andrew's statement that this is "Once again demonstrating why many more industry representatives don't step foot on forums by and large" and "quite frankly with the reception I'm getting after promising to do so, I'm not entirely sure it's worth my effort doing so in future!"
What you got when you returned Andrew was not just complaints from Aion and unellmay, but fabricatedlunatic, Rui and myself all stating that we thought the price was fair and arguing your corner. We can't stop others from complaining (and why would we? It's their right to do so) and if industry representatives can't take some replies being critical and, as you suggest, use that as an excuse not to engage with fans then frankly I think they need to be a little thicker skinned about it. I also think they need to acknowledge that it is by no means the majority of forum users that behave this way, which is what it feels like when the negative posters seem to be the ones who are addressed and referenced the most.
Do people see what I meant on another thread about the negative being dwelt on by both parties in the fan / distributor relationship though? I don't like the way Aion and unellmay have behaved here, but nor do I much like Andrew's statement that this is "Once again demonstrating why many more industry representatives don't step foot on forums by and large" and "quite frankly with the reception I'm getting after promising to do so, I'm not entirely sure it's worth my effort doing so in future!"
What you got when you returned Andrew was not just complaints from Aion and unellmay, but fabricatedlunatic, Rui and myself all stating that we thought the price was fair and arguing your corner. We can't stop others from complaining (and why would we? It's their right to do so) and if industry representatives can't take some replies being critical and, as you suggest, use that as an excuse not to engage with fans then frankly I think they need to be a little thicker skinned about it. I also think they need to acknowledge that it is by no means the majority of forum users that behave this way, which is what it feels like when the negative posters seem to be the ones who are addressed and referenced the most.
sonia_leong
Dandy Guy, in Space
Just throwing my lot in here to say thank you, Andrew ♥ Will definitely be picking it up.
I wish that more people would understand that licensors, producers, publishers, creators and directors in the industry are human beings at the end of the day - they are also fans, they stake their reputations, they work hard despite the often hurtful comments left by people within the safety net of an online forum. Negative is fine, no need to be rude!
Although, it does work both ways... if you say something publically online, you never know who is watching, ohohohoho...
EDIT: And being human, I think it's fine for Andrew to be just a little miffed! XD Of course there were many people in agreement, but the nasty comments are always the ones that stab you, y'know? It's hard to remind yourself to ignore them.
I wish that more people would understand that licensors, producers, publishers, creators and directors in the industry are human beings at the end of the day - they are also fans, they stake their reputations, they work hard despite the often hurtful comments left by people within the safety net of an online forum. Negative is fine, no need to be rude!
Although, it does work both ways... if you say something publically online, you never know who is watching, ohohohoho...
EDIT: And being human, I think it's fine for Andrew to be just a little miffed! XD Of course there were many people in agreement, but the nasty comments are always the ones that stab you, y'know? It's hard to remind yourself to ignore them.
Aion
Time-Traveller
Ok, Mr. Andrew of Beez, then. I apologize for being familiar with one such as yourself, sir. I meant no disrepect and, in the future, will do everything in my power to prevent any such misunderstandings.
You have to take the sweet with the sour. Life would be easy if everyone was nice and agreed with you, but that isn't the case. If you think I'm out to get Beez, fair enough - that's your incorrect opinion - but in reality I'm simply expressing my opinion. You can't expect people to hide their true feelings just because you post on here.
Good job getting the RRP pushed down to the highest it should've been to begin with. It's great that you listen to fans and don't just argue with people who complain. Not many important people would put in the effort required, and you deserve a virtual pat on the back.
You aimed your post at me, yet I only posted a link to the product, let people post saying it's expensive and then got involved with Ayase. I have no hatred for Beez, it's simply a matter of Beez being the most discussed topic on here at the minute.
In most cases, I'd say £30 x2 (most likely) on release is a good thing. It isn't a high price for a newly released box set; one which some will buy because of the series populaity. The reason it's a problem with Beez? Your prices never seem to drop outside of misprices and attempts to clear old stock. Rather than the sets dropping to £25 within 6-12 months, or £20 x 2 in two years, the prices will most likely stay the same if the past is anything to go by.
There are people who pay on release, people who wait for a small decrease and people who wait for bargain bin prices. Beez only aim for the first of those.
If memory serves me, the R1 Code Geass releases (x3) had $40 RRPs. That's a total of $120 for three releases. So, considering we get art boxes, there's not a huge difference - £60 (back in the day, anyway) versus £80. The key difference is the R1 prices are close to half the RRP. I know you most likely can't compete with R1 prices, and I respect that, but R1 imports will always win if it goes on like this.
You have to take the sweet with the sour. Life would be easy if everyone was nice and agreed with you, but that isn't the case. If you think I'm out to get Beez, fair enough - that's your incorrect opinion - but in reality I'm simply expressing my opinion. You can't expect people to hide their true feelings just because you post on here.
Good job getting the RRP pushed down to the highest it should've been to begin with. It's great that you listen to fans and don't just argue with people who complain. Not many important people would put in the effort required, and you deserve a virtual pat on the back.
You aimed your post at me, yet I only posted a link to the product, let people post saying it's expensive and then got involved with Ayase. I have no hatred for Beez, it's simply a matter of Beez being the most discussed topic on here at the minute.
In most cases, I'd say £30 x2 (most likely) on release is a good thing. It isn't a high price for a newly released box set; one which some will buy because of the series populaity. The reason it's a problem with Beez? Your prices never seem to drop outside of misprices and attempts to clear old stock. Rather than the sets dropping to £25 within 6-12 months, or £20 x 2 in two years, the prices will most likely stay the same if the past is anything to go by.
There are people who pay on release, people who wait for a small decrease and people who wait for bargain bin prices. Beez only aim for the first of those.
If memory serves me, the R1 Code Geass releases (x3) had $40 RRPs. That's a total of $120 for three releases. So, considering we get art boxes, there's not a huge difference - £60 (back in the day, anyway) versus £80. The key difference is the R1 prices are close to half the RRP. I know you most likely can't compete with R1 prices, and I respect that, but R1 imports will always win if it goes on like this.
I understand how Andrew feels. I remember at one point we were going to have a regular representative posting from Manga Entertainment and a Q&A thread was set up but before the guy even posted there were certain people already bombarding the topic with an influx of complaints. Some valid, some not and some just downright insulting. It's no wonder he was scared away.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't give critique and suck up but more respect and consideration regarding said critique would be appreciated and might mean we could have more representatives from other companies. Maybe.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't give critique and suck up but more respect and consideration regarding said critique would be appreciated and might mean we could have more representatives from other companies. Maybe.
beez_andrew
Great Teacher
ayase said:
What I did get though, and sorry Aion for singling your post out particularly, was potential talk that if I did not address puts not only myself but Beez as a whole in an unfairly labeled situation though. Hence the response to that and to the general escalation of posts after I'd said I'd go and look into it really and the rather natural feeling of dismay to come back to that feedback despite some positive feedback also there.
To be fair I do get what you mean there and do rest assured I understand the point. As Sonia points out - we're human beings too (although sometimes you'd not guess it given our ability to do many tasks at once...) so it's naturally pretty disheartening to feel insulted or bad mouthed when it's not particularly justified. I don't think anyone *should* stop being critical, it's not only your right but how we can go on and improve our releases in future
. What I do ask though is that people think about what they're writing first as there is a clear difference between being critical and laying on something offensive. For example before resorting to an insult or such - make use of the fact you have a representative from the company here and just ask me why. I'll not shy away from answering it for you even if it takes a little time to do so
.I appreciate the feedback I get from you guys as a whole and that's why I stay around - just it would be nice to receive critiques constructively as I do tend to do something about them when I can if so, as it helps me present something reasonable as support from the fans then too
.I think Sy said exactly how I feel really here so I'll just quote it:
Sy said:
Just Passing Through
The Wildcard
It's also worth remembering that studios are small, and representatives aren't hired for their web communication skills alone. It's fair to say that representing a company on a selection of web forums is a microscopic part of their overall job decription.
If you ask a question and don't get a reply, it's not because it's a deliberate snub or an affront.
If you ask a question and don't get a reply, it's not because it's a deliberate snub or an affront.
beez_andrew
Great Teacher
Aion said:
I'm not saying you have to be formal with me (although sarcasm received
) - but my name's Andrew and I quite like it just! Nicknames aren't as fun just I find ^^.Aion said:
I don't think you're particularly out to get Beez nor do I believe that anyone speech should be stifled. What I do believe though is there is a line between making a reasonable critique - and making baseless statements though - in most cases I can pass it by as it's understandably due to disbelief etc - but at times there are ones I can't pass by sadly as ignoring certain ones is tantamount to accepting them as true. As I've said before I value everyones comments about products, positive or negative, we release and we take action on them - just having them put in a constructive way helps.
Aion said:
Sorry about that, the issue was more with the milking point - as you may not have meant it seriously but it's one of those ones best elaborated on. Hope you get what I mean there, as I know I've been coming back on a lot of your posts recently! You often make good points, but sometimes they are laced with stuff that at least to others can come across as offensive or paint an unfair image of things so I'd rather respond to that than ignore it if it helps set the record straight so to speak and avoid anyone mis-interpreting.
Aion said:
Campaigning is definitely an essential part of a companies survival now - no matter what titles it has. I'm driving for that too just now and things as you have seen over the past month or two are moving that way now slowly. So I'm hopeful we can continue this from now on with releases
.Aion said:
Sounds about right there and that is why campaigning has become essential after 6-12 months, you're right. It's definitely something the talking heads at the company have been slow on the uptake of - but that's changing now for the better so watch this space!
That's good news, I was happy with the old price anyway and I get to save money too thanks Andrew!
Positive or negative, I have to say that this has got a lot of people talking about Beez if nothing else. The odd moaning aside it's good to discuss and clear up some of the misconceptions people have. I'm personally glad to see the positive trend of prices reaching reasonable parity with the US (a very different type of market) and release gaps slowly shrinking; I'm a pretty disloyal buyer but when companies make it worthwhile to buy locally I like to show them I appreciate it with my wallet.
R
thanks Andrew!Positive or negative, I have to say that this has got a lot of people talking about Beez if nothing else. The odd moaning aside it's good to discuss and clear up some of the misconceptions people have. I'm personally glad to see the positive trend of prices reaching reasonable parity with the US (a very different type of market) and release gaps slowly shrinking; I'm a pretty disloyal buyer but when companies make it worthwhile to buy locally I like to show them I appreciate it with my wallet.
R
The Picture Dramas were special extras on the Japanese DVD and Blu-Rays, they're basically like audio dramas set to (slightly) moving pictures. Together with the audio dramas (which I don't think are available in the UK release), the picture dramas and the audio dramas tell parts of the story not told in the main episodes.BlackWolf said:
A question to Andrew;
Do you know if the UK will ever get the movie cuts of the Code Geass series, Black Rebellion and Zero Requiem?
beez_andrew said:
Then I hope you won't mind me coming in here, slightly off-topic, to campaign, that you promote your releases a little better. I was recently faced with a decision whether to pick up the Gundam 00 sets from you, or to import. One of the deciding factors being, that I just didn't know enough about your release. I had a list of what was contained, but that is all. I had nothing to gauge the quality of anything contained or the physical structure of the sets themselves.
Perhaps keeping your website up-to-date is clearly too much, but how about a blog (hell even a twitter account?), where you can announce things like you have in this very topic (regarding the Sword of the Stranger), and post images of the sets, or production artwork for the sets? I had heard that the Gurren Lagann sets were completed and sold at an expo well in advance of release date, so I assume you put these sets together early.
beez_andrew
Great Teacher
BAKA said:
Not exactly the same campaigning but I see your point and it is definitely an issue that is being fixed. There're background reasons why details of GL + 00 LEs didn't get out sooner that I can only apologize for. Giving a short and namely that I have been away on leave on and off and some reshuffling at Beez happened during that time so nobody was available to act in my stead sadly.
I'm still on partial leave - but from August on that will change. We've actually already registered a Twitter and configured a blog for Beez UK - both of which will go live properly towards the end of the month.
BAKA said:
Both will be done
.Cheers for the feedback!
- Andrew
Aion
Time-Traveller
Also, could you tell the Royal Mail NOT to damage Beez sets in the post? I've received 9-10 Beez sets over the last week or so and a number have arrived damaged. The only good is that A) I got 6 for £3 each and B) the others were lower in price than other Beez stuff.
(not serious, FYI)
I'd REALLY hate to pay normal Beez prices and have the Royal Mail ruin the party. I think I'm only ever going to order art boxes from HMV in future...
(not serious, FYI)
I'd REALLY hate to pay normal Beez prices and have the Royal Mail ruin the party. I think I'm only ever going to order art boxes from HMV in future...
ayase
State Alchemist
Ditto. They're the only ones who package things properly now. Even Amazon, who used to use decent boxes for large items, are cramming ever more into those awful fold-out things which are very easy to squash (or if you're a postman, squeeze flat enough to wedge in a standard letterbox with no regard for the items inside).Aion said: