Bandai Entertainment is Dead!

Times are hard, i personally don't budget more than £15 a month for buying, though sometimes i build up a couple of months to get a bigger box set, i imagine it's pretty tough for a lot of people out there. And quite a few rather not buy at all.

I like to say fansubbing is the problem, but it almost certainly is. Pity, because its a good mechanism for gauging a series popularity.

For a start, the quality is high, any group with poor translations gets burnt, we've allowed DVD distributors get away with glaring errors in the past because we simply have no alternatives.

And... a popular series gets on average, 20, 30k downloads, others around 5-10k per episode (of course depending on group)

Those are numbers we'd never see at retail, partially because... it's free, and 90% of your audience has already seen it, and a lot of them think "whats the point of watching something again" for them anime is a free disposable entertainment source. Maybe, if lucky 10% of those guys will want to watch it again, but out of that, no more than 5% would be willing to buy it.

I can't help feeling simulcast is the way to win these days, crunchy have a lead, but they might get burnt by the established companies catching on, which is a pity because crunchy has an open boarders policy, Funi with their arrangement with Nico blocks any none-US IP. Probably by next year we'll see crunchy's new licences diminishing and nico/funi gobbling more. Bad news for UK fans.

Its sad, discs are dying, and it's no more evident than in the anime industry. I for one like the chance to show my support and have a few hardcopies. Perhaps it's time to start collecting figures... but i have nowhere to put them.
 
Crunchyroll has gone through wobbly periods with UK rights too, though they seem to be getting a good spread again this season (assuming today's pickups are similarly good). Anime On Demand is our big hope for a dedicated UK service, but as the recent news thread shows, there are still some UK fans who aren't interested in paying for streaming even of the dwindling fanbase who don't just rely on digisubs.

I still don't really agree that digisubs are a good way to judge the popularity of a series. They show a certain type of popularity, certainly, but it's meaningless if a show is mega popular in a demographic which simply won't pay for things. If something is a big hit, it can usually be judged without having to fall back on illegal distribution statistics. There are countless shows which everyone seems to have seen one way or another, which have gone on to sell absolutely atrociously on disc. Then there are shows which barely got any buzz as digisubs (or weren't even finished) which ended up as runaway successes on DVD in the west.

I find it interesting seeing the 'Likes' and discussion figures on Crunchyroll and comparing the popularity there with how likely something is to be licensed. It's really built up a community feeling now.

R
 
ilmaestro said:
Can we expect Nichijou and GOSICK to reappear somewhere? Other Gundam shows seem dead in the water, time to hit "go" on some of my amazon.co.jp bookmarks I guess.

Is it as bad news as people are making out, though, with them remaining in the game on the licensing side of things?

Rui said:
Given that the struggling companies have had some really brilliant titles in their stable (00, Geass, K-On, Star Driver etc) but still failed, yet LEs from NISA, AniplexUSA and Funimation are selling out regularly, I wonder if we'll see more experimentation with LEs over there to appeal to the shrinking group of buyers.
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Imagine how craaaaaaazy it would be if it turned out that anime was a niche product that needed to be sold at a decent price to survive? :s
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What worries me about Bandai's statement regarding staying in the game with regards to the licensing side of things is that it is almost word for word the exact same statement that Geneon put out when they pulled out of the distribution game. Remember Geneon? Anyone?

What is of more immediate concern to me is Beez' status in all this. Is the Bandai Ent shutdown related to their Japanese parent company trying to cut costs? Is Beez another appendage of that Japanese parent company? If so, could they pull the plug on Beez for the same reason?

Or the best case scenario, Beez is a more independent entity than all that, certainly the fact that they licence shows like Sora no Woto, Durarara, Tatami Galaxy, and House of Five Leaves would indicate that. Can they remain a viable entity without the Bandai licenses, and maintain their European-wide presence? Can they get by on just three or four new, sub-only licenses a year? At best they would be reduced to an MVM level of presence in the UK.
 
Personally I wonder if and when the whole anime market will collapse. It's way too fragmented now and as far as I understand the trend is not going to fix this.
There are far too many shows for being the small market it is now. I can't think of another niche DVD market that gets so much shows per year.
Renevue policies are fragmented too. English speaking countries get 3 different releases (uhm, maybe more if we include Hong Kong?). Lately they are fragmenting even the way they release stuff: DVDs, BDs, digital copies and streaming.
The more you fragment, the more difficult is getting new fans. The more you fragment, the more fixed costs you have. If the policy is not helping widening the fanbase and is leading to higher fixed costs, then it's more and more difficult to get some revenue.
It seems just like a spiral to death.



Teo
 
Really hope you are right in the regards to Beez staying alive because of their non bandai licenses. They have taken a very brave step these last 2 years or so in regards to their shows and it would be a shame if we are left with a company run by a twats like manga for uk anime fans.
 
teonzo said:
Personally I wonder if and when the whole anime market will collapse. It's way too fragmented now and as far as I understand the trend is not going to fix this.
There are far too many shows for being the small market it is now. I can't think of another niche DVD market that gets so much shows per year.
Renevue policies are fragmented too. English speaking countries get 3 different releases (uhm, maybe more if we include Hong Kong?). Lately they are fragmenting even the way they release stuff: DVDs, BDs, digital copies and streaming.
The more you fragment, the more difficult is getting new fans. The more you fragment, the more fixed costs you have. If the policy is not helping widening the fanbase and is leading to higher fixed costs, then it's more and more difficult to get some revenue.
It seems just like a spiral to death.
Teo
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Half the problem as far as i'm aware is it being made a pain by the licensors for one company to distribute across regions. It'd be brilliant if distributors operated across R1-America/R2-UK/R4-Australia and A/B on all their BD discs, would be much cheaper on the printing and authoring side. (I think most fans can overlook Mum becoming Mom for more effective distribution)
Easiest would be Funi/Manga since they are largely owned by the same company from what i remember.

I know it's a little crazy, but i feel that a lot of the poor quality in western releases is in some part to keep japanese fans buying japanese copies. As for the native companies otaku buying cheaper foreign copies is a 'problem' for them.
 
teonzo said:
Renevue policies are fragmented too. English speaking countries get 3 different releases (uhm, maybe more if we include Hong Kong?). Lately they are fragmenting even the way they release stuff: DVDs, BDs, digital copies and streaming.
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Yes! It's crazy that there have to be completely separate versions everywhere. I understand that a lot of the problem in the UK's case specifically is archaic BBFC rules requiring the certification logos actually on the disc content itself (according to Manga UK), which seems insane. BD is a small, delicate market as it is, it's not well served by breaking it up further by geographic region and by language. Someone should be campaigning against this stuff, especially when it's so trivially easy for anyone to download an uncertified video of anything they choose. It floors me that a tiny company like Manga UK is commissioning its own expensive print runs on blu-rays for completely silly reasons like this, on top of paying the BBFC fees for everything and marketing to our tiny fanbase.

And region locking blu-rays should just die outright. I don't understand what possible benefit it has to anyone other than a few short-sighted corporate buffoons in region A.

Digital copies seem to have mostly collapsed as an idea when it comes to western anime, and I can see premium DVD/BD sets coexisting in a niche alongside streaming, but it feels as though there needs to be a major revolution in the way things are organised before the market kills itself completely.

Another aspect is what Conan remarked on earlier, about Manga UK saying his purchase of a US anime series (which has no UK release) was seen as "not counting", and separately Manga UK going on record to state that importing legal anime is the same as illegally downloading it. These companies should be working together, not undermining one another to score points! In the short term, Manga UK is right that a sale to an overseas country's distributor doesn't benefit them, but if anime fails everywhere Manga UK isn't going to be getting any of the dubs they love so much either, so either way they're in trouble.

R
 
The problem is, Rui, is if you bring attention to the fact that the Dinosaur Empire has no dominion over things downloaded illigally (who (if anyone) does regulate legal streaming over here anyway?), it'd be more likely that something like SOPA would get flung in our faces rather than any real change to a draconian system of rating (Not against Rating things, just the part where it's demanded by law) that has been desperately needed for about 90 years.
 
It's not even illegal downloads, though. Watching perfectly legal content on the internet (and downloading it) doesn't require BBFC certification either. I can download stuff from other countries' download-to-own systems which has no certification whatsoever, and corrupt my innocent maiden mind freely. My kid brother can do it too. When he looks up counting songs on YouTube he's always a click away from things the BBFC would unquestionably ban - so what's the point in them?

R
 
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature ... _interview

Ken Iyadomi is no stranger to the American anime business. Having been at Bandai Entertainment since its inception in 1996, and VHS anime publishers LA Hero and Manga Entertainment before that, he's seen a lot of changes in the business.

Unfortunately, his latest announcement is one he'd rather not be making. On January 3rd, the publisher is announcing that it will cease to release new DVD and Blu-ray releases in North America, effectively ending its 13-year run in the market. The majority of the division's contractors and three of their five full-time staff members will be laid off, and all releases scheduled after the end of January have been cancelled.

In a decision made last October, but only now becoming public knowledge, Bandai Entertainment's corporate parent at Namco Bandai Holdings made the decision to exit the American home video business. Iyadomi says he wasn't privy to the fine details. "The decision was made in Japan by the contents SBU (Strategic Business Unit)." That business unit originally included the video games division, but recently was merged with all of the company's audio visual businesses, including Sunrise, Bandai Visual and Bandai Channel.

But the broader reasons are quite clear from the outside. The physical anime business in North America has shrunk substantially over the last five years, and shows no sign of returning to its former glory. "A couple of times we were hit with huge returns, and the financial result was pretty bad," Iyadomi admits. Still, he believes the division might have been able to keep going for a few more years, had the SBU allowed it.

"The pricing range for our products kept dropping in Western countries, and people tended only to buy sets with very reasonable prices, which we understand is what fans want, but it lead us to a different strategy than what Japanese licensors wanted," he remarked. "So we always had a problem [with licensors wanting something different than what consumers wanted]."

For now, nothing is going out of print. Iyadomi is careful to point out that, while new releases will cease and three of Bandai Entertainment's five employees will be let go (as well as most remaining contractors), the company currently plans to keep its current catalog in print and available until their respective licenses expire. (No new re-releases or re-packagings will occur, however.) Retailers can continue to order those discs the way they always have, and when stock is depleted, new product will continue to be manufactured.

The timing of the near-shutdown coincides with the final releases of Star Driver, Tales of the Abyss, The Girl Who Leapt Through Space and Mobile Suit Gundam (the new release of 0079 with Japanese audio), which means that they will all be released in their entirety. However, all releases after February 2012 have been cancelled. Three series that were announced last year, including Turn A Gundam, My Ordinary Life (Nichijō) and Gosick, will not be released and their rights will revert back to their licensors.

The third volume of Gundam UC's DVD re-release, which would have comprised episodes five and six has been cancelled; the fifth episode is not scheduled for release in Japan until May. However, this news does not affect the availability of imported Japanese Blu-rays of the series through amazon.jp, which have included English audio and subtitles produced by Sunrise directly. Also unaffected by the announcement is the Ghost in the Shell franchise: the Stand Alone Complex series is distributed entirely by Starz Entertainment's Anchor Bay line (bearing the "Manga Video" brand), while the feature film Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence was a short-term sublicense from Paramount Pictures (current owner of the Dreamworks back catalog), and has already expired.

The manga division, unfortunately, will not be so lucky. Kannagi, Gurren Lagann, Code Geass: Renya of Darkness, Mobile Suit Gundam 001, Lucky Star Boo Boo Kabagoo and Tales of the Abyss: Jade in My Memories will all see their releases cut short. Their fate had not yet been determined at press time. "All we can confirm for sure is that those series are not going to be finished by us," Iyadomi says.

As a corporate entity, Bandai Entertainment will stick around, albeit in a very different form. The company will continue to sublicense its shows to internet and TV broadcasters, as well as for merchandising. "The function of Bandai Entertainment will change towards helping group companies as opposed to making profit ourselves. We will continue handling licensing and sub-licensing for digital, tv and merchandise for group company properties," says Iyadomi, adding that this new role might even involve shows that Bandai Entertainment never had access to. "Whatever group companies want us to handle, we will help them. Our purpose going forward will be like it was in 1996-1998, before we started doing physical distribution."

But at this point, little is set in stone. Only one thing is clear: the role of a distributor for anime in North America is changing, and some well-equipped licensors can now cut them out of the process entirely, if they choose. Japanese publishers can now create Blu-rays with English subtitles, ready to import to English speakers worldwide. While those won't sell as many copies as American-produced discs, the higher price point and lack of middleman can still result in a decent amount of revenue with little additional cost. Bandai Visual Japan recently discovered this for themselves with their release of Gundam Unicorn. "They found the results pretty good, and that's how I think they would like to move forwards," Iyadomi says.

And so, for Bandai Entertainment, its days as a publisher are drawing to a close. Facing a massive restructuring, Iyadomi remains grateful to the fanbase. "I would like to say thank you to all the fans that have supported us. Although we no longer have new releases coming up, we will still have the catalog, so we appreciate your continued support."

Bandai Entertainment's Most Successful Anime (in no order)
Cowboy Bebop (absolutely #1)
Escaflowne
Outlaw Star
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Mobile Suit Gundam Wing

Bandai Entertainment's Most Successful Manga (in no order)
Lucky Star
Eureka Seven
Code Geass
Mobile Suit Gundam
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So the decision was made last October by the parent company. From the looks of it we may see Bandai might start releasing stuff the same way as Aniplex (high cost, low print run) as it doesn't cost much more to ad English subtitles to their own discs.
 
"The pricing range for our products kept dropping in Western countries, and people tended only to buy sets with very reasonable prices, which we understand is what fans want, but it lead us to a different strategy than what Japanese licensors wanted," he remarked. "So we always had a problem [with licensors wanting something different than what consumers wanted]."
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So essentially, the problem lies with the Japanese side not being able to adapt to the western market?
 
Joshawott said:
So essentially, the problem lies with the Japanese side not being able to adapt to the western market?
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Given that these Jackasses spawned Bandai Visual USA. That would totally not surprise me in the slightest.
 
Really nice of them to do their best to tie things up and be transparent. I'm glad that the rights have reverted for the three lost shows, as the worst outcome would be Bandai Ent keeping the rights and nobody else being able to get them if they did disappear in future. Now at least someone can swoop in and save the day.

Interesting that it implies that Unicorn has been very successful outside of Japan as well. I had wondered.

R
 
This stinks of the old "Japanese company not willing or unable to adapt to differences in the western market!"

It seems Bandai have had it hard with both the expectations of the Japanese Parents and the Difficult to Please consumers. In all this it simply boils down to the basic theory of "everyone is to blame" (More-so Pirates who leech) than simply pointing fingers at the next person.


Can anybody point me to a good site which shows all Bandai's releases as Bandai's website is a little lacking in back catalog detail.
 
Just Passing Through said:
Yup, Beez are a part of Namco Bandai Holding as well, BE's Japanese parent company.

God I hope Beez is making them happier than Bandai did!
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Yeah.

Even then though, we can see how much control the Japanese side have with Beez. I'll be honest, I've been put off a lot of Beez shows because of the prices - the last one I purchased was Sound of the Sky...but I can't even remember the one I purchased before that.

I just looked to see if I could find Gundam 00 season 2 volume 2 (which I still need to get)...I can get volume 3, but not volume 2 *sigh*. Thanks a lot rioters...
 
It's no surprise the Japanese are unwilling to adapt when, as demonstrated by the success of Aniplex USA's Kara no Kyoukai experiment, there are seemingly no shortage of non-Japanese customers willing to spend large amounts of money for very little content--or at least enough of them to make it a profitable venture. This is the way I see things going in the years to come: anime is going back to where it was before the 90s boom, where the select few will import what they want and everyone else will go back to watching fansubs or move on to another hobby.
 
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