Bandai Entertainment is Dead!

I see that as the inevitable outcome too. Cheap bargain bin sets with no frills don't mesh so well with the streaming future and an increasingly unwilling-to-spend fanbase, so it's going to become LEs and pricey premium editions with the cheap stuff dropping off. If people are paying for streaming accounts, for the majority of purchasers buying lower resolution DVDs of the same things they already saw streaming is only going to have appeal if the sets are shiny and pleasing to own. Unless it's a really big hit title like Naruto and Bleach where the demographic and units sold can allow for the cheap releases to continue.

While I like cheap anime as much as the next person (being able to roll onto Amazon and order an entire cour of an expensive new show for a tenner is certainly not something I turn my nose up at), I can't see how it's sustainable in a world where the Japanese licensors make substantially more profit selling a couple of hundred expensive LEs at a premium price than several thousand cheap sets at Manga Price.

...the select few will import what they want and everyone else will go back to watching fansubs or move on to another hobby.
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I feel as though it's like that already, only the sellers haven't all rebalanced yet to take it into account so they keep spectacularly failing when they try to appeal to a market that no longer exists for them ^^;

Whereas in the 90s the market was adjusting and letting the buyers lead it to short-lived success, now the entitled masses have dragged things back to where they were and priced the newly created market back out of the hobby again.

R
 
Rui said:
I see that as the inevitable outcome too. Cheap bargain bin sets with no frills don't mesh so well with the streaming future and an increasingly unwilling-to-spend fanbase, so it's going to become LEs and pricey premium editions with the cheap stuff dropping off. If people are paying for streaming accounts, for the majority of purchasers buying lower resolution DVDs of the same things they already saw streaming is only going to have appeal if the sets are shiny and pleasing to own. Unless it's a really big hit title like Naruto and Bleach where the demographic and units sold can allow for the cheap releases to continue.

While I like cheap anime as much as the next person (being able to roll onto Amazon and order an entire cour of an expensive new show for a tenner is certainly not something I turn my nose up at), I can't see how it's sustainable in a world where the Japanese licensors make substantially more profit selling a couple of hundred expensive LEs at a premium price than several thousand cheap sets at Manga Price.

...the select few will import what they want and everyone else will go back to watching fansubs or move on to another hobby.
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I feel as though it's like that already, only the sellers haven't all rebalanced yet to take it into account ^^;

Whereas in the 90s the market was adjusting and letting the buyers lead it to short-lived success, now the entitled masses have dragged things back to where they were and priced the newly created market back out of the hobby again.

R
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But then doesn't the problem then become "What is too premium?"; especially in this economy.

When I can get a premium or limited edition release, I tend to get them over the regulars. However, even for something like Puella Magi Madoka Magica, I currently only have the first set on pre-order. While I certainly do want the volume 2 and 3 LE sets, I'm waiting until I get volume 1 to see if I do get stung by customs (which I most likely will) and if so, how much I will have to pay on top. If it's too much, then I'll just get the regular releases of volumes 2 and 3.

While the addition of customs and tax certainly isn't Aniplex USA's fault and the Madoka sets aren't as highly priced as some of the others (iirc, don't the Fate/Zero import sets retail for like $500?); around £50 for a set with only 4-episodes doesn't seem as attractive as it would say 5 years ago (For example, just that base £50 is a whole third of my monthly income; I'm just fortunate that I live at home and don't have to pay bills). Although, the Blu-rays' region coding being "no region" despite Japan and America sharing the same BD region does make me think...

Sure, back in the day I got all the Limited Edition volumes of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (which as of yesterday I have proudly presented in my room as opposed to hidden away), which were priced at around £30 each iirc. Back then though, 4-episode releases were still the norm.
 
Cathe said:
Ryo Chan said:
but NISA never even heard of them :/
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They are the company that make the Disgaea games. Nippon Ichi Software America.
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To be strictly accurate, they are the company that localised the later Disgaea games. The games themselves are made by NIS in Japan, and a few of their games were released in the US/EU prior to the formation of NISA (by Atlus and/or Koei IIRC). NISA also localise similar games from other Japanese developers like Gust.

Rui said:
It's not even illegal downloads, though. Watching perfectly legal content on the internet (and downloading it) doesn't require BBFC certification either. I can download stuff from other countries' download-to-own systems which has no certification whatsoever, and corrupt my innocent maiden mind freely.
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You can even watch Queen's Blade on Binkbox (if you don't mind being blinded by the glare)

ConanThe3rd said:
And by three paragraphs, it's painfuly clear this is all the Japanese doing.
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You mean where it says "The decision was made in Japan"?

TheLasersharkKH said:
This stinks of the old "Japanese company not willing or unable to adapt to differences in the western market!"
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If BE hadn't been around for 15 years...?
 
The third volume of Gundam UC's DVD re-release, which would have comprised episodes five and six has been cancelled; the fifth episode is not scheduled for release in Japan until May. However, this news does not affect the availability of imported Japanese Blu-rays of the series through amazon.jp*, which have included English audio and subtitles produced by Sunrise directly.
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*Your home may be repossessed if you do not keep up repayments on your imports.
 
Rui said:
I see that as the inevitable outcome too. Cheap bargain bin sets with no frills don't mesh so well with the streaming future and an increasingly unwilling-to-spend fanbase, so it's going to become LEs and pricey premium editions with the cheap stuff dropping off. If people are paying for streaming accounts, for the majority of purchasers buying lower resolution DVDs of the same things they already saw streaming is only going to have appeal if the sets are shiny and pleasing to own. Unless it's a really big hit title like Naruto and Bleach where the demographic and units sold can allow for the cheap releases to continue.

While I like cheap anime as much as the next person (being able to roll onto Amazon and order an entire cour of an expensive new show for a tenner is certainly not something I turn my nose up at), I can't see how it's sustainable in a world where the Japanese licensors make substantially more profit selling a couple of hundred expensive LEs at a premium price than several thousand cheap sets at Manga Price.
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I don't think this would be a profitable way in the long term if applied to Europe and North America.
Releasing expensive LEs for top shows like Gundam Unicorn, Madoka or Garden of Sinners is one thing. Releasing mainly expensive LEs (if a show is released then it's an expensive shiny set and not a cheapo) is a different thing.
Yes, there are fans willing to spend good amounts of money for their favourite shows, but overall the releasers need to calculate the loss of revenue from all people that are/will be willing to spend only a limited amount of money for a series. If they release only expensive LEs then it doesn't mean that all fans that spent £100 (or $100, just a mere example) for 5 shows will continue to spend those £100 for 2 shows (or even less). Most of them will simply stop buying anime DVDs/BDs. So you (generic publisher) loose a good portion of customers (which means a good portion of the overall money) that nowadays buy anime (in Europe and North America). You remain with the hardcore fans, who will continue to buy expensive LEs and will be happy to get shiny sets. The first problem is that hardcore fans have a limited amount of money to spend on their passion, so there is a limit on the money you can get from them. The second problem is that usually a hardcore fan is already spending the maximum he can for his passion, so it's unlikely that he will start to spend the double or triple of money (monthly or yearly) to get all the LEs he wants. Here in Italy we say "you can't get blood by squeezing turnips". The third and bigger problem is reasoning on the long term. The best way to try to get more revenue from a product is trying to broaden the number of buyers. It's really difficult, if not impossible, to get more fans when the policy is the current one. What's happening in Japan should alarm the anime companies, they are getting revenue by squeezing the hardcore fans and stop. Hardcore fans aren't so forever, and current policy is everything but favoring a turnover or a widening.
To me this current policy by anime companies seems only a slow road to implosion.



Teo
 
The things that come to mind in light of the last few posts are:

If you have a product to sell, you might sell it in greater volume if you actually promote it. I made the point elsewhere online with regards to Gundam that I feel there was a superb opportunity to push the franchise in the wake of Paramount's Transformers movies. Those proved that there was an audience for big robots in the west. No effort was made to cash in on that.

If you have a product to sell overseas, to another culture, you do well to make efforts to make the purchase seem attractive.

A good number of UK anime fans, as well as folks I know with just a passing interest in it, DON'T CARE what people are paying for the stuff in Japan. They want something that cmpares favourably price wise to other entertainment they're considering laying down money for. You sell stuff in the west? You sell it at western prices.
 
HdE said:
The things that come to mind in light of the last few posts are:

If you have a product to sell, you might sell it in greater volume if you actually promote it. I made the point elsewhere online with regards to Gundam that I feel there was a superb opportunity to push the franchise in the wake of Paramount's Transformers movies. Those proved that there was an audience for big robots in the west. No effort was made to cash in on that.

If you have a product to sell overseas, to another culture, you do well to make efforts to make the purchase seem attractive.

A good number of UK anime fans, as well as folks I know with just a passing interest in it, DON'T CARE what people are paying for the stuff in Japan. They want something that cmpares favourably price wise to other entertainment they're considering laying down money for. You sell stuff in the west? You sell it at western prices.
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So, promote?
Buy high and sell low?
Pay attention to the local market customs and adapt appropriately?

What manor of Santanry are you selling?
 
HdE said:
The things that come to mind in light of the last few posts are:

If you have a product to sell, you might sell it in greater volume if you actually promote it. I made the point elsewhere online with regards to Gundam that I feel there was a superb opportunity to push the franchise in the wake of Paramount's Transformers movies. Those proved that there was an audience for big robots in the west. No effort was made to cash in on that.

If you have a product to sell overseas, to another culture, you do well to make efforts to make the purchase seem attractive.

A good number of UK anime fans, as well as folks I know with just a passing interest in it, DON'T CARE what people are paying for the stuff in Japan. They want something that cmpares favourably price wise to other entertainment they're considering laying down money for. You sell stuff in the west? You sell it at western prices.
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Unfortunately, that request is perfectly logical. Which means it will never be implemented.

DVD prices aren't that bad here except for Beez titles (Oh look who also owns Beez 9.9), so the only titles from them I've purchased recently are Anime Legends stuff and Sound of the Sky - the latter because that show is worth a £1gajillion in my book.
 
Anime's main issue is it can't recoup the licensing costs via broadcasting, it's pretty much a straight to video industry... Until streaming.

With streaming publishers now have a direct means of gaining a broadcast type of income via ads or subscription fees. Being a niche it is something that we have to adapt to. And most importantly it has to be accessible. If there are restrictions to access or any kind of swindle, fans react badly and will snub you with piracy even if you fix these issues. I have a friend who refuses point blank to use CR because of their history despite being the most accessible way to watch certain shows (i'm constantly encouraging him to watch gintama)

Put Apps on Smart TVs, Tablets, Smartphones, even desktops (to circumvent the misery of flash until html5 catches up)

It'd let them put quality shows out on hardcopy, and the forgettable harem trash can be kept on the stream without the complexities and costs of putting out a hardcopy.

Put out LEs, but i for one won't pay more than £150 for a complete set, and even thats pushing it, £50 is my limit for pricy sets usually, £15 for typical content.

-Oh, and Funi and Manga should finally merge, seriously.
 
megagold5 said:
How it works: Dub----->Sub----->Dead.

Pity though, I guess. In saying that, I didn't have too much fondness for BE as of late due to sub-only releases.
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Same here. This just proves that going back to subs only from dubs was just trying to cure the symptoms, but not the disease. It seems that only the US branch is being put down, so far. I can see someone like TRSI picking up distribution of what Bandai are dropping, sub only of course. I call that "the white dwarf effect" meaning the dying ember of a bright star that has exploded, and like that ember Bandai's anime and manga will grow dark and cold of interest, like the other dark star Geneon.
 
fabricatedlunatic said:
Regarding the NISA LEs, I think the only ones to have sold out are Toradora set 1 and Wagnaria. Everything else seems to be readily available, which makes me wonder if they've over-produced. But they are continuing to license and release anime, so it would seem they're doing okay.
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The site finally came back up and someone remade this thread, which gives a good overview:

http://www.fandompost.com/forums/showth ... es-Tracker

It looks as though they're doing ok overall, and quite a few of the sets have presumably sold out on the wholesale level (to use a Funimation phrase) to have gone out of stock at the dedicated dealers :)

R
 
Katanagatari sold out quickly; I hope that's because it was surprisingly popular and not because relatively few units were produced. That there's been no announcement of a regular edition as with Toradora and Wagnaria has my cynic sense tingling, though.

But if NISA keep licensing and releasing shows they must be doing something right. I can see Kimi ni Todoke doing well for them.
 
Good god, I think part of the reason is that the buyers are aging. When I was a student/young adult I bought maybe a season every two months. Now i'm a father it is maybe one every 6 months...
 
I wonder if they're just consolidating their SKUs to make keeping things going easier. If so, perhaps we can expect to see a set for Hayate No Gotoku at some stage too (if they don't just let it fall out of print gracefully due to poor sales). I have the singles already but if they do end up reprinting it will be a hassle for them to keep track of them all.

R
 
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