UK Anime Distributor Anime Limited Discussion Thread

ayase said:
I can't agree with that. If you don't want to do streaming (as several others have also stated they don't) that's your choice, but it is still enabling far more people to watch anime legally and support the creators than ever before. Under a tenner a month for an all-you-can-watch subscription service is far cheaper than buying physical releases - Even when they were at their cheapest you'd barely get a half-season set for that. Which surely makes anime more available to people with less disposable income.

It's unfortunate that your preferred way of consuming anime through cheap physical media releases is disappearing, but I can't imagine that's for any other reason than physical media sales are declining, and to sell them cheap they would no longer sell in the quantities to make it profitable. I don't think it's about gouging, simply about how physical media for a niche market has to be priced in the age of streaming in order to make it worth producing at all.
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But it represents a very bad position for anyone that actually cares about ownership. Saying that the rest can just stream isn't really a fair arguement because we don't own any of it & can't just rewatch it anytime we want as nothing stays on subscription services and even if you can buy them there's little guarantee the company won't go bust or want to free up server space. Why would I want to watch something that I might really enjoy when I can't own it to enjoy at my leisure?

I already have a few digital exclusive games I can't download or play on the ps3 or xbox 360 that I purchased (albeit cheap, as I said I don't assign much value to digital). That's within 1 generation because media companies are allowed to retain control and can remove whenever licenses expire.

The digital future concept is idiotic and only benefits the media companies because we have to pay for the storage and hard drives aren't super reliable or cheap. Dual layer bd-r aren't either & lack longevity vs professionally authored.
The idea that so many are willing to go along with it really confuses me; sacrificing quality, reliability and future proofing for short term convenience (if you have a good Internet speed)... So much is in danger of being lost in the ethers of time.

I know this is AL's thread but it's relevant IMO as they've really pioneered and pushed the whole trend of pricey ultimate editions. They clearly feel its sustainable but I haven't seen much loyalty or patience at all from those with the disposable income to regularly buy them. I'm sure the profit margins are higher because I suspect that a nice box and a cheap art book add a very minor production cost vs the hefty price increase but I don't see how it is sustainable long term.
 
serpantino said:
But it represents a very bad position for anyone that actually cares about ownership. Saying that the rest can just stream isn't really a fair arguement because we don't own any of it & can't just rewatch it anytime we want as nothing stays on subscription services and even if you can buy them there's little guarantee the company won't go bust or want to free up server space. Why would I want to watch something that I might really enjoy when I can't own it to enjoy at my leisure?
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My point isn't that you (or anybody else) is wrong to think the way you do serpantino, but I do think you're now in a minority in thinking this way. You just have to look at the success of streaming services to see that they're incredibly popular. If what you wanted (cheap physical anime releases) was in high demand and profitable, it would be being produced because companies like profit.

AL does produce a lot of collector's editions, but they also produce cheaper standard editions of things that presumably sell in decent numbers at a lower price point. But I think it would be a bit unfair to expect them to do this for things that are only going to sell a couple of dozen copies, because the collectors have already bought the collector's editions and the casual fans are satisfied with streaming (I look at it similar to doc and do a bit of both, I buy the things I really like but I'm content to stream the rest).

serpantino said:
The idea that so many are willing to go along with it really confuses me; sacrificing quality, reliability and future proofing for short term convenience (if you have a good Internet speed)
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The trade off is cost more than anything else. Yeah, streaming is not as good quality as a blu-ray, obviously. But it's also nowhere near as costly. And that's a pretty major motivator for a lot of people. As for things being dropped from streaming services, I can think of plenty of things that I'd be interested in owning the physical releases of but which went OOP before I became interested in them (again, presumably due to low demand otherwise they'd have stayed in print). No-one's going to re-release them just for me, so I have to obtain them by other means. That's not really a whole lot different.
 
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serpantino said:
But it represents a very bad position for anyone that actually cares about ownership. Saying that the rest can just stream isn't really a fair arguement because we don't own any of it & can't just rewatch it anytime we want as nothing stays on subscription services and even if you can buy them there's little guarantee the company won't go bust or want to free up server space. Why would I want to watch something that I might really enjoy when I can't own it to enjoy at my leisure?

I already have a few digital exclusive games I can't download or play on the ps3 or xbox 360 that I purchased (albeit cheap, as I said I don't assign much value to digital). That's within 1 generation because media companies are allowed to retain control and can remove whenever licenses expire.

The digital future concept is idiotic and only benefits the media companies because we have to pay for the storage and hard drives aren't super reliable or cheap. Dual layer bd-r aren't either & lack longevity vs professionally authored.
The idea that so many are willing to go along with it really confuses me; sacrificing quality, reliability and future proofing for short term convenience (if you have a good Internet speed)... So much is in danger of being lost in the ethers of time.

I know this is AL's thread but it's relevant IMO as they've really pioneered and pushed the whole trend of pricey ultimate editions. They clearly feel its sustainable but I haven't seen much loyalty or patience at all from those with the disposable income to regularly buy them. I'm sure the profit margins are higher because I suspect that a nice box and a cheap art book add a very minor production cost vs the hefty price increase but I don't see how it is sustainable long term.
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People also said LPs would fade away when CDs came, now people can stream the music and there are still people collecting LPs.

I don't collect LPs myself, but I will always collect DVDs and Bluray and I have said it before, I don't give a rats ass about streaming services. For me it's all about owning what I buy and appreciating the aesthetics of a good designed release.

But I do think straming services has a purpose, since companies can make money on people who don't care for physical releases.

So as long as companies takes care of both types of customers all bases are covered and everyone should be happy.
 
Honestly, I'm content to both streaming and physical media. I mainly stream shows that are either on the air at the time (although I'm taking a break from simulcasts this season to focus on my backlog, except for Vinland Saga), I'm either unsure about (either based on public opinion or, in some cases, whether I should get an expensive release (e.g. from Japan or AoA)) or if I want to check out a show that has yet to receive a physical release. On very rare occasions, I would end up resorting to other means if no streaming is available as a last resort (thankfully, that's rare with recent anime, but sadly, a lot more common with tokusatsu), not that I would encourage it anyway. Of course, I would never go near any of the illegal streaming sites.

In most cases, I would blind buy the physical release of a show that lacks streaming to prevent going through other means, but I would also sometimes blind buy physical releases of shows that have streaming availability if either public opinion is positive or if I feel that would be the show I would enjoy (and also, to save the hassle of watching it on either Crunchyroll, HiDive, etc). As for shows I have seen, if I liked a show enough when I streamed it, I would get the physical release of that particular show.

The way I see it, legal streaming has a place in the anime community, whether people like it or not, as it's there for whenever people would like to check out a show legally, but can't get an English friendly physical release (either because one is not available or too much for their budget, or they don't want to risk blind buying a series they might not even like). And if I'm correct, doesn't using legal streaming increase the chance of making a physical release and/or an English dub possible (I'm an original language fan myself, but let's not get into that debate)?

While some of the posts I've seen seemed on-topic, I think this conversation should have a thread of its own, if there isn't one already.
 
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Experiences like one I had yesterday make me happy Gundam is apparently doing well for AL.

Was in Forbidden Planet. They're selling Gundam Universe, the new figure line aimed at Western fans.

Were these on the long anime wall with DBZ, MHA, Jojo, etc?

No. They were shoved on the bottom of a Masters of the Universe display, along with an orphaned Linebarrels of Iron kit.

Being a UK Gundam fan is suffering...
 
HellCat said:
Experiences like one I had yesterday make me happy Gundam is apparently doing well for AL.

Was in Forbidden Planet. They're selling Gundam Universe, the new figure line aimed at Western fans.

Were these on the long anime wall with DBZ, MHA, Jojo, etc?

No. They were shoved on the bottom of a Masters of the Universe display, along with an orphaned Linebarrels of Iron kit.

Being a UK Gundam fan is suffering...
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My local Forbidden Planet International has a pretty good range of gunpla including some P Bandai kits that are so expensive they'll never get rid of them.

They started stocking them as another comic store started selling them and we're doing very good business with them as they were the only stockist in the country.
 
ayase said:
My point isn't that you (or anybody else) is wrong to think the way you do serpantino, but I do think you're now in a minority in thinking this way. You just have to look at the success of streaming services to see that they're incredibly popular. If what you wanted (cheap physical anime releases) was in high demand and profitable, it would be being produced because companies like profit.

AL does produce a lot of collector's editions, but they also produce cheaper standard editions of things that presumably sell in decent numbers at a lower price point. But I think it would be a bit unfair to expect them to do this for things that are only going to sell a couple of dozen copies, because the collectors have already bought the collector's editions and the casual fans are satisfied with streaming (I look at it similar to doc and do a bit of both, I buy the things I really like but I'm content to stream the rest).


The trade off is cost more than anything else. Yeah, streaming is not as good quality as a blu-ray, obviously. But it's also nowhere near as costly. And that's a pretty major motivator for a lot of people. As for things being dropped from streaming services, I can think of plenty of things that I'd be interested in owning the physical releases of but which went OOP before I became interested in them (again, presumably due to low demand otherwise they'd have stayed in print). No-one's going to re-release them just for me, so I have to obtain them by other means. That's not really a whole lot different.
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As long as a physical release exists in the wild you can purchase them. Digital isn't cheaper really, in fact it's a complete ripoff in most cases. I'm fine with subscription streaming services but I never consider any of the content to be owned by me, it's just a modern day blockbuster video.
 
serpantino said:
As long as a physical release exists in the wild you can purchase them. Digital isn't cheaper really, in fact it's a complete ripoff in most cases. I'm fine with subscription streaming services but I never consider any of the content to be owned by me, it's just a modern day blockbuster video.
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And you're right. I mean if we're talking DTO, it's pretty much dead. I can't think of a single anime release that's only available via DTO, and the removal of things from those services has surely put people off using them, probably irreversibly.

The similarity of something going OOP in physical format and being removed from streaming services, to my mind at least, is that there's no longer a way to actually pay the creators for that content. Paying £100 for a OOP release second-hand that sold for £20 new doesn't see any money go to the creators of the show, it just makes £80 profit for someone who happened to buy it. So at that point, I see no reason not to obtain it via other means. I'm not giving the creators any money either way so I might as well save myself £80, and it'd be the same logic to me if something was no longer available for streaming. If it isn't available physically but is available to legally stream however, I'd do that, because it is actually benefiting the creators.
 
There seems to be a shocking number of people on here who don't value sheer entertainment. I don't own a holiday or a gig or a day at Alton Towers but all these things have entertained me and enriched my life to some degree or other. And they all still cost money to exist so they have value whether you own them or not.

I buy the collectors editions of shows I love because I want the nice box, the artbook etc and I want to support something I love but the show itself has exactly the same intrinsic qualities it did when I first discovered it for a fraction of the cost on Crunchyroll or Hi-Dive. Not to mention every other show I can try an episode or two and bail on if I don't like it.

But that's alright, because somebody else might like that show and thanks to streaming services it actually had a chance to make it out of Japan because it wasn't just reliant on shifting enough physical copies in the west to make a profit.

I like a physical collection as much as the next person but to see streaming as anything other than a net gain is madness.
 
I think a choice should always be offered none should be one or the other, yet these days most shows are streaming only so many shows LA and anime I would give my back teeth to own Evangelion is the biggest one, and for me I like the owning a set cos I like watching things on a disc the boxes and contents are always second to me. Like Silver Spoon's set content are poor yet the discs are alright so I'm fine and saved it from streaming only hell.
 
Personally I watch subscription services to check out new things and if I like it I buy the bluray to own it

When I blind buy it would be on high recommendation or the annual mystery boxes which serve me well for introducing me to shows I would have otherwise never seen (like Erased or Baccano)
 
xp_version1 said:
There seems to be a shocking number of people on here who don't value sheer entertainment. I don't own a holiday or a gig or a day at Alton Towers but all these things have entertained me and enriched my life to some degree or other. And they all still cost money to exist so they have value whether you own them or not.

I buy the collectors editions of shows I love because I want the nice box, the artbook etc and I want to support something I love but the show itself has exactly the same intrinsic qualities it did when I first discovered it for a fraction of the cost on Crunchyroll or Hi-Dive. Not to mention every other show I can try an episode or two and bail on if I don't like it.

But that's alright, because somebody else might like that show and thanks to streaming services it actually had a chance to make it out of Japan because it wasn't just reliant on shifting enough physical copies in the west to make a profit.

I like a physical collection as much as the next person but to see streaming as anything other than a net gain is madness.
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I think comparing a holliday to a physical release is senseless. You know from the getgo a holliday is something you will cherish as a memory when you get home and not something tangible.

A physical release is something you want for a collection because it has value, not necessarily monetary value. While a show on bluray itself holds the same sentimental value regardless of regular or LE release. The real value is in owning it. I have both DVDs and comics that ain't worth much moneywise in my collection, but sentimental value is not something that can be put a price on. The smell of an old comic is not something that can be duplicted on a computer and the smell brings back memories too.

Ofcourse the same thing can not be said about a DVD or Bluray as it doesn't have a smell. But it still gives me a thrill to know that it's mine and I am not dependent on some service provider for me to be entertained, on top of that my favorite show may be pulled and replaced with something else I don't care for, but I will always have my DVD or Bluray. I get the impression that streaming services only focus on what's new and popular, if that is the case that excludes old obscure shows and that sucks.
 
For me, streaming is great to watch the latest shows that come out in Japan while also supporting the industry.
I can then decide what to spend my hard earned money on based on what I've enjoyed watching.
9 times out of 10, I will only buy a LE release of a show I have really enjoyed.
I think that's the way the anime market is going in all honesty. It's a niche market.

I do pick up standard releases now and then, blind buying any series I may have missed streaming, but this is price dependant.
Since these are bare-bones disc releases, my limit is £15-20. Any more and I don't even consider.
 
Streaming services are at least good value for money for the amount of content you get so I dont mind paying for 1 or 2 of them.

Paying for individual anime and manga downloads when i know I can get literally the exact same files for free in seconds is another matter though... Just feels like burning money tbh. Thats why i like buying physical, and especially CEs, because i know im getting something I cant get from downloading/streaming for free.

Honestly though, its almost impossible to not pirate anything. Even if i subbed to all the streaming services, all the sports channels etc there'd still be loads of shows like One Piece that I cant watch, manga that i cant read, or loads of football matches that aren't shown over here, plus Id have a lot less money.
 
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