A question about honorifics in dubs

[Joshawott]

Hello Everynyan!

Last night I was rewatching some episodes of K-On! and I got thinking about how the English dub replaces all references to yen in dialogue with the approximate dollar equivalent, yet keeps honorifics such as '-chan' et cetera and how weird that was. Honestly, I was wondering who made both of these decisions...surely if you want it to stay "Japanesey" you should keep the references to yen? Or if you want to westernise it, you don't use the honorifics. Sure, on the one hand, if Mugi wasn't called "Mugi-chan" you would probably get some people on message boards anonymously saying "PLAIN 'MUGI' AIN'T AS KAWAII AS MY 'MUGI-CHAN' DESU!!!!111!!!!!" et cetera.

One point I brought up with MangaUK on their twitter is surely such a practice would reduce any chance a series had of appealing to a general audience? I mean, we'd probably have to explain the suffixes to them which might just alienate them, or they would confuse them as being a part of the character's actual name.

With some dubs like Naruto, I feel that the "sensei" being kept in fits somewhat due to the western association of that term with martial arts, but I've even read some recent manga volumes where the eastern name order is used...yeah 9.9.

I was wondering what your opinions are on some English dubs keeping the Japanese honorifics intact, which is also a fairly common practice I've seen in manga published by companies like Yen Press.

I dunno...as well as the alienating non-informed people, it also sometimes strikes me as lazy translating or "pandering to the 'weeaboos'".

 

[JamesX]

I like to see honorifics as it helps you to understand the relationship of the people and how they're talking to them. For example, calling someone -kun could show that the speaker thinks the other person is younger or of lower status than themselves, which is not always true (I suck at explaining).

But saying that I wouldn't make a fuss if they didn't add them as long as they didn't try to translate them either. (Sensei/Master being an exception as sometimes they don't say the person name)

But I don't like it when they change the money to $ as I would rather see it in the way they said it.. and a quick Google would tell them the answer how much it is in whatever currency.

Additionally: Negima! books have notes in the front to explain them all which I found helpful when reading them.

 

[Paradox295]

With the money thing, it depends. If it's a show set in Japan, then changing yen to dollars is stupid. Since they don't use dollars there.

However, if it was a show set in America (like Baccano! or Black Lagoon) and they used yen in the Japanese dub, then by all means change it.


For honorifics, again, it depends. The FLCL dub used them (Takkun), so I'd say only use them if there's no other equivalent.

But if it's like Mugi-chan, then change it. Mugi is fine.

 

[ayase]

For dubs, get rid of 'em. On subs, keep 'em in. It makes little sense having honorifics when the characters are speaking English and there's no Japanese involved otherwise, but to have a subtitle read "Lum" when the character obviously says "Lum-chaaaan!" seems wrong. But that does create the additional problem of what to fill gap left by the deletion of the honorific from the dub with...

 

[ilmaestro]

I was wondering what your opinions are on some English dubs

I hate them all. This is just one of many reasons.

 

[Mutsumi]

I was wondering what your opinions are on some English dubs

I hate them all. This is just one of many reasons.

Without bashing any dubs in particular, could you tell me what aspects of English language anime dubs it is you dislike so? Is there really no English dub you have liked? What criteria would an English dub have to meet in order to gain your approval?

 

[Otaku-san]

I was wondering what your opinions are on some English dubs

I hate them all. This is just one of many reasons.

BRRRR!! Do you feel that. Feels like a back draft off unbridled bawww. Please refrain removing your foot from your mouth, as I spend all my monies on what you dislike

 

[Reaper gI]

I'm in the keep them in dubs (in 90% of cases you need them*), subs it doesn't matter you have the audio. The problem is with over localising how characters speak in school (i.e. not formal as it is in Japanese); if you actually had characters use "Miss/Master/Mr/Mrs Surname" as standard it would all work out.

*it's fine if they use a limited number of addresses for people (i.e Surname-san, first name, full name(-san)) more than 3 for any one character and you need them.

 

[Rui]

Without bashing any dubs in particular, could you tell me what aspects of English language anime dubs it is you dislike so? Is there really no English dub you have liked? What criteria would an English dub have to meet in order to gain your approval?

I'm not ilmaestro but it's an interesting question so I wanted to butt in

I personally don't like any English anime dubs at all. I prefer to watch everything the way it was originally made - I watch foreign films in their original Hindi, Mandarin, Korean, French etc, and Japanese anime must be in Japanese. If an anime I wanted to see was released with the English dub as the main version (or has multilingual aspects, as a very small number of shows do), I'm fine with that. And I think a lot of US-made animation is very well voice acted. It's just that when I watch anime, I prefer to see it (and hear it) as it was originally intended. I'm also a big fan of various Japanese voice actors to the point where I'm paying thousands of pounds each year collecting their DVDs, radio shows and music CDs, so removing them from a series is removing part of the entire reason I would watch it to begin with. In some cases I have watched shows I don't even like just to enjoy a Japanese voice actor's performance.

I find it especially jarring when a dub is very Americanised as well, because it's a Japanese product, being watched in the UK. I genuinely find it almost impossible to understand the American dub of Hetalia (which someone inflicted upon me briefly) due to cultural differences which had nothing to do with the original source material or my own environment. I couldn't enjoy it at all. I can't say it's outright universally bad, because obviously some people do really enjoy that kind of dub, but it's a very different kind of experience. In the case of Hetalia where the voice performance is such a big part of the show (the visuals certainly aren't), the dub and Japanese versions are almost two entirely different products, with a different target audience, sense of humour, script and atmosphere. I happen to be a fan of the Japanese version, so being offered a completely different interpretation isn't that much use to me.

No disrespect intended at all to those who do enjoy English dubs, but for me personally I'd rather not watch something at all than watch it without being able to enjoy the original soundtrack.

R

 

[Just Passing Through]

One of my personal bugbears with dubs is the universal choice to exchange the Kansai accent in the Japanese tracks for Southern accents in US tracks.

US Southern accents make me want to eat my ears. Them and Ulster accents (no offence intended to anyone with those accents), but I think it's a universal trait that certain voices (different for everyone no doubt) can rub people the wrong way.

But I love the Kansai accent, it's just so quirky and unique. I love the Japanese version of Azumanga Daioh for dreamy Osaka. The US dub makes me wish I could erase it from my DVDs without destroying the discs.

 

[fabio de lunatico]

I would prefer that honorifics be kept out of dubs. If I want to hear them I'll listen to the Japanese dialogue, which is where they belong.

I don't mind if they're left out of subtitle scripts (like in Animeigo's translation of Urusei Yatsura) either.

 

[Otaku-san]

One of my personal bugbears with dubs is the universal choice to exchange the Kansai accent in the Japanese tracks for Southern accents in US tracks.

It's not always the case. Matt Greenfields notable for making characters that have Kansai accents to give them a Bronx/Brooklyn. Such as Mutsumi Aasu and Miss. Kuroi to name a couple.
Plus I believe that it's not possible to pull off a perfect interpretation on a Kansai accent in a dub, since it's just what it is, a "accent". No different for a Japanese person to pull off a Yorkshire or Geordie accent if having to provide an Engrish roll.

There is a set peeve I have though. Engrish moments in anime like Crome Shelled Regios. Why they had to dub over the show they where watching, it made part off the charm to the show.

 

[Mutsumi]

Without bashing any dubs in particular, could you tell me what aspects of English language anime dubs it is you dislike so? Is there really no English dub you have liked? What criteria would an English dub have to meet in order to gain your approval?

I'm not ilmaestro but it's an interesting question so I wanted to butt in

I personally don't like any English anime dubs at all. I prefer to watch everything the way it was originally made - I watch foreign films in their original Hindi, Mandarin, Korean, French etc, and Japanese anime must be in Japanese. If an anime I wanted to see was released with the English dub as the main version (or has multilingual aspects, as a very small number of shows do), I'm fine with that. And I think a lot of US-made animation is very well voice acted. It's just that when I watch anime, I prefer to see it (and hear it) as it was originally intended. I'm also a big fan of various Japanese voice actors to the point where I'm paying thousands of pounds each year collecting their DVDs, radio shows and music CDs, so removing them from a series is removing part of the entire reason I would watch it to begin with. In some cases I have watched shows I don't even like just to enjoy a Japanese voice actor's performance.

I find it especially jarring when a dub is very Americanised as well, because it's a Japanese product, being watched in the UK. I genuinely find it almost impossible to understand the American dub of Hetalia (which someone inflicted upon me briefly) due to cultural differences which had nothing to do with the original source material or my own environment. I couldn't enjoy it at all. I can't say it's outright universally bad, because obviously some people do really enjoy that kind of dub, but it's a very different kind of experience. In the case of Hetalia where the voice performance is such a big part of the show (the visuals certainly aren't), the dub and Japanese versions are almost two entirely different products, with a different target audience, sense of humour, script and atmosphere. I happen to be a fan of the Japanese version, so being offered a completely different interpretation isn't that much use to me.

No disrespect intended at all to those who do enjoy English dubs, but for me personally I'd rather not watch something at all than watch it without being able to enjoy the original soundtrack.

R

Very good answer. However, with regards to seeing things the way they were intended, is the script not intended to be listened to rather than read?* Personal preference though really.

 

[Rui]

Ah, but watching something subbed isn't like putting it on mute and only reading it. Even if it's a language I don't speak myself, I find it quite easy to pick up on the way things are said and I usually walk away with some (generally useless) new vocabulary.

I can understand why people who don't enjoy reading so much or who read more slowly (my brother has real issues with this) would prefer to concentrate on the visuals and let the words wash over them, but I'm perfectly content doing both. Incidentally I also watch most of my English language material subtitled to make sure I don't miss anything, despite being fluent ^^;

R

 

[Joshawott]

If I remember correctly, isn't Hayao Miyazaki's personal opinion that people should watch his work in the viewer's native language so that they can give more attention to the visuals? Saying that though, I had no problem watching Arrietty subtitled.

I do agree with watching something in its original language but subtitled is different to watching it on mute with subs. There's still the atmosphere from the BGM and the tone of the voices.

 

[Rui]

I don't particularly like Miyazaki's movies, so his preference on what I do doesn't worry me

(Sorry, that sounded way more flamebaity than intended ;_; )

In the general spirit of the point though I think dubs should all sound natural in the language they're dubbed into, rather than be literal replications of the Japanese to the point where everyone sounds stilted and confused. So keeping unnecessary/obscure honourifics in sounds a bit crazy.

R

 

[Vashdaman]

If I remember correctly, isn't Hayao Miyazaki's personal opinion that people should watch his work in the viewer's native language so that they can give more attention to the visuals? Saying that though, I had no problem watching Arrietty subtitled.

I do agree with watching something in its original language but subtitled is different to watching it on mute with subs. There's still the atmosphere from the BGM and the tone of the voices.

You know in many ways I actually agree with Hayao on this one, although I do generally watch my anime subbed (it helps with my study of the language). You do miss out on much visual detail usually when reading the subtitles. Not anime but an example of this is a Japanese film I watched a few months back (can't remember the name but I did review it in the film thread). The film was all about the emotional state of the characters but it was often portrayed in such subtle ways, that I felt like I was continuously missing it by having to lower my eyes to read the text and then quickly take in the facial expressions and reactions of the characters. But then I'm probably slow...

 

[ilmaestro]

I was wondering what your opinions are on some English dubs

I hate them all. This is just one of many reasons.

Without bashing any dubs in particular, could you tell me what aspects of English language anime dubs it is you dislike so? Is there really no English dub you have liked? What criteria would an English dub have to meet in order to gain your approval?

I hate them all as a subset of the larger group "secondary language dubs". I did not, for example, rewatch episodes of Columbo with the JP language track when I rented the DVDs in Japan (Columbo is surprisingly popular there, or at least was at the time).

 

[Otaku-san]

Necro bumping for this since I've experienced the "Dollers" in my anime so recently.

I was checking out the second season of Ah My Goddess!, just to see what it was like, when I noticed Belldandy serving a customer telling how much they owed her, with her replying "That be ten Dollers Please". Ten Dollers? TEN DOLLERS? it even shows it in the blessed screen shot before that it's 941 yen.
Though at least that's not as bad as some off the stuff in the comic book that Dark Horse released