A Dark Day For United Kingdom Politics

[ayase]

This single world government sounds like something you'd get in, I dunno... Gundam? Isn't that in it's own right giving up our views to a single group of people, who know possibly nothing about the issues in a representative's own country? You're saying this group can govern the largest space possible (the earth) with one super-government when atm we cant even govern our own little island (Britain)? The scale is too vast! Like a group of 7 workers working on a huge multi-national company. You can have 100/1000/10 000 seats on the government, but unless focus can be made on the troubles of a local area, then problems will be overlooked, issues will rise, and revolution will occur.

But a couple of thousand years ago tribes within Britain were at war with one another and governed themselves. Now Britain is governed as a country, soon it will be governed as a state of Europe. World government is just natural progression, and doesn't mean you'll lose your local town council to address local issues. The top level World government would of course address the issues relevant to all of humanity which currently remain unsolved because they are in the hands of rival nations. For example, do you think Gordon Brown and the Cabinet have any involvement with local politics now?

Unless we can give these people a means of opportunity (i.e. making deserts a more lucious to stop starvation with more crops, or give materials for machinery), or the knowledge of opportunities (i.e. teach people how to do new things, make the most of existing problems etc.), this is how it's always going to be.

How about allowing them to live somewhere they can cultivate crops instead of barren deserts or areas that get flooded out every year? Most third world countries fail so badly because they are places not suitable for human habitation - and they can't leave because of political boundaries, hence illegal immigration.

But yeah, you're right. Our forefathers worked really hard during the colonisation of Africa and the Opium Wars - The only reason we're better off is because someone else isn't. Now we're better off because East Asian sweatshop workers make all our cheap goods so we can afford to buy loads of stuff with our comparatively high wages. Tell you what, why not get British workers employed making all our goods! Oh, wait, now a jumper costs £200 because our workers want £5.50 an hour instead of £5 a week. Now we're all poor and hate the government. Revolution! You see the problem here? That's why we have such high unemployment.

I don't consider it a fantasy - I honestly do think World government is the logical progression of democracy. What is the point of countries after all? Is there really a difference between voting for someone for World Parliament along with someone to represent you in the local council, the UK, and Europe?

 

[Ryo Chan]

Right heres my final view, it's all nice and dandy blaming all the "idiots" who voted in the BNP and such

but how bout instead you blame the "idiots" who didn't even bother voting in the first place.

And your all going on about how 3rd world countrys can sustain themselves with the world we live in, keep the planet going the way it is and Spain/Italy will soon be joining thoses 3rd world countrys while the English Channel becomes the new mediteranian.

In the end you can't win with people, they moan cause immergrants come into the country seeking a better life cause they can't get it at home, then moan because we go to war with said countrys to try and get rid of the dictatorships that make their lives so bad (yes i'm aware the wars aren't about that really, but about oil and such but it does help in the end)

So in Summery
I don't like the BNP, or do i support them, though there are certain few (and i do mean very few) issues i do agree with.
I have no problem with legal immergrants, just the ones that come into our country illegally and mooch off our taxes
And finnaly as bad as it is people voting for the BNP and such, the blame should fall on the 60 odd % of people that didn't even bother to vote, over the ones that actually went out and tried to make a difference.

/end Rant

 

[Ryo Chan]

Incidently, i don't hear anyone moaning that the Sweden Pirate Party has won a seat in the European Parliament.

 

[Otaku-san]

Incidently, i don't hear anyone moaning that the Sweden Pirate Party has won a seat in the European Parliament.

I guess thats for winning back pirate bay lololololol

 

[SciFiBoy!]

i just read todays Independent, it had a good article on peoples misconceptions about immigrants, namely that people think there are more than theyre are and that they are less well educated than they are, explains alot of the hostility towards them, its because of IGNORANCE, not facts, just people not looking for the facts

 

[SciFiBoy!]

It is a true shame that the BNP are gaining any kind of power. I'm shocked that the education system has failed those in the Yorkshire constituency so badly.

I think it's the education system itself thats at fault. We don't get taught anything about Politics :lol:

i agree with that, i think we should teach people politics at primary and secondary schools, ideally, it should replace religous education, as politics is more relevant and important in 21st century societys like ours.

the media need to report the facts better aswell, most of the media reports headlines rather than facts, which is why the public is so ill informed about what goes on in westmister, sufficed to say, the expenses scandal is a small fry in terms of problems facing our political system.

 

[SciFiBoy!]

But as we create better machines to do jobs of people, the overall number of workers we need is going down. We can't stop the rise in unemployment - There's nothing else we need people to do! Either someone in the UK is unemployed or someone elsewhere will be. There are two choices here: Peacefully reduce the population over time so that there are only as many people as are needed (one thing China has right) or create such fantastic machines that they can do all the work and provide for everyone, with humanity becoming more or less a race of hedonists. If we don't pick one of these options then the inevitable third scenario doesn't bear thinking about: The non-voluntary reduction of population. And that's where people like the BNP come in.

i vote option 2, it will be just like Star Trek!

 

[Chaz]

And finnaly as bad as it is people voting for the BNP and such, the blame should fall on the 60 odd % of people that didn't even bother to vote, over the ones that actually went out and tried to make a difference.

Here, Here!

World government is just natural progression, and doesn't mean you'll lose your local town council to address local issues. The top level World government would of course address the issues relevant to all of humanity which currently remain unsolved because they are in the hands of rival nations. For example, do you think Gordon Brown and the Cabinet have any involvement with local politics now?

And then we have a problem with "My main boss is my boss'-boss'-boss'-boss'-> When the f*** will that end? You make a complaint to the local government today, you'd get a slow reply. One boss doesnt want to get in trouble with the others, so the make "red tape" documentation. And so on, and so on... It's not a government, it's a paper-trail.
And guess what? You're right! Brown doesn't hear any of this, because the trail will be burnt out at a certain point, of which some nobody-knows minister would just overlook it, talk to the people around them, takes time to make a decision, slaps a decision on it, and then it has to make it way back down the trail. A petty complaint that could probably take 10mins to solve talking to the right person would take weeks to sort out.

And to have someone like Brown to lead the world... Gawd! Where's my razor blade? I think that sums that part nicely.

How about allowing them to live somewhere they can cultivate crops instead of barren deserts or areas that get flooded out every year? Most third world countries fail so badly because they are places not suitable for human habitation - and they can't leave because of political boundaries, hence illegal immigration.

Oh dear- And where would they go in britain? If we had landspace the size of Asia, with green fields and nice weather with a good balance of high/low or flat/mountainous ground, with nobody using it, without a price on territory or the fears of someone claiming it, or enough materials and manpower to help build and create things... <--- Just look at that and we have a "starter menu of wishful solutions." We could do an "Iraq" and free the people of these leaders keeping them inside, but where are they suppose to go?

The only reason we're better off is because someone else isn't. Now we're better off because East Asian sweatshop workers make all our cheap goods so we can afford to buy loads of stuff with our comparatively high wages. Tell you what, why not get British workers employed making all our goods! Oh, wait, now a jumper costs £200 because our workers want £5.50 an hour instead of £5 a week. Now we're all poor and hate the government. Revolution! You see the problem here? That's why we have such high unemployment.

So tell me if you're in the nude at the moment, because I bet you have the sweat and tears of those sweatshop employees on your clothes too. I'm sorry, but that sounds hypocritical.
As for the actual issue, is East Asia part of Britian? No. Can we do anything other than persuade the nation's leaders to raise their pay? No. Even if they did, would that balance out the world ecconomy? No, No, No. A society like a political Pangaea could even this out, where everyone gets a "minimum wage," and ecconomy is one currency. But because we're all different countries, we govern differently (hence the need of interest rates) and we simply can tell other leaders what to do.

And you're damn right about we're better off because we're leaching off others! I WANT to believe in an even society, hell, burn every bank note, wreck all mints, melt the coins into something better than a numeric value! I F***ing hate capitalist views! But I live capitalist because if I dont, I'd be homeless and starved in a capitalist country. If I shouted in the streets "All hail the communist movement" in the UK, what would happen to me? (And no, communism isn't necessary the way). I dont want to take advantage of others, but I aint going to become a sacrifical lamb and risk everything so that I can help a cause that 1 man cant overcome, especially if he has hardly a say in it. So go ahead a revolt! Lets see how many will follow and if that's all the strength needed to make a change on a situation that is not just British envolved. Another way to solve the spacing issue is to have a world war and massacre each other, isnt it?

 

[shira]

It is a true shame that the BNP are gaining any kind of power. I'm shocked that the education system has failed those in the Yorkshire constituency so badly.

I think it's the education system itself thats at fault. We don't get taught anything about Politics :lol:

i agree with that, i think we should teach people politics at primary and secondary schools, ideally, it should replace religous education, as politics is more relevant and important in 21st century societys like ours.

the media need to report the facts better aswell, most of the media reports headlines rather than facts, which is why the public is so ill informed about what goes on in westmister, sufficed to say, the expenses scandal is a small fry in terms of problems facing our political system.

Myself, I feel RE is just as important. We need to learn to understand other cultures before we can accept them, that, is why RE is compulsory. Politics should be put in with English. We should learn about Politics in English, and change one of our coursework assignments to relate to Politics in some way. I feel that way we'll have the understanding of other cultures, and of politics. (Assuming you listen in class, that is)

 

[ilmaestro]

You see, this is actually great news, because it might make the proper parties sit up and take notice and think what they've done to **** up so badly to allow the BNP to get a seat.

 

[Ryo Chan]

You see, this is actually great news, because it might make the proper parties sit up and take notice and think what they've done to F*** up so badly to allow the BNP to get a seat.

cause they've done a great job this year getting rid of Gordon Brown

 

[Yuvie]

I'm a little worried by this. It's easy for people to call this a protest vote but in my eyes, it's a foolish, ignorant and dangerous protest vote. People are easily manipulated by what they hear on the news or by what their 'group of mates' say. I think the biggest problem is that generally people don't care or take the time to care about politics. They'd rather just vote for an extreme far-right political group and hope that they make it all better. That's fine.....if you want a race war. These idiots who voted BNP have just justified physical/verbal attacks on people who aren't perceived as white english & blatant racism. I've heard these types all before 'Oh, it's nothing to do with being racist'..............yeah right.

If some of us white english got off our ass and actually went out to do something with our lives then we wouldn't have to complain all the time. It's always so easy to make the 'immigrant' argument. The difference is that they're happy to work their asses off for a measly paycheck doing some menial job just to take care of their families. Whereas, what do I hear from every unemployed brit I know? That it doesn't pay to have a job, you'd be better off on benefits.

We've got too many spineless snakes in this country. I hate people like that, all nice to people's faces but behind closed doors, they'd be happy to vote for a group like the BNP. Bunch of F'N tools.

I just hope momentum doesn't build for the BNP. I'm keeping a close eye on this. Who knows where something like this will lead in the future. Everything starts off small and we're in the perfect day and age for it to carry on growing. I just hope there are other people out there ready to stomp on it before it gets out of control.

 

[Ryo Chan]

TBH i can see it causing big troubles where i am too, Burnley isn't too far from Preston, and Preston has a very large Muslim base, and it's not out of the ordinary to have "Race Wars" as per say between BNP supporters and Muslims here.

As far as i'm concerned, soon as someone learns our language, and wants to work here not only to help their family, but the country too, that makes them British to me, not what there origins are.

 

[ayase]

How about allowing them to live somewhere they can cultivate crops instead of barren deserts or areas that get flooded out every year? Most third world countries fail so badly because they are places not suitable for human habitation - and they can't leave because of political boundaries, hence illegal immigration.

Oh dear- And where would they go in britain? If we had landspace the size of Asia, with green fields and nice weather with a good balance of high/low or flat/mountainous ground, with nobody using it, without a price on territory or the fears of someone claiming it, or enough materials and manpower to help build and create things... <--- Just look at that and we have a "starter menu of wishful solutions." We could do an "Iraq" and free the people of these leaders keeping them inside, but where are they suppose to go?

In a World State, wherever they like. Wherever they can make a living. Did I say they should all come to Britain? You're right, there's plenty of Lebensraum in Asia (if you'll excuse the term), it would make more sense to populate the unpopulated areas - but how are we going to do that without some form of World Government (barring, as you say, another World War)? We will only get a balanced rate of immigration if all countries get together and agree a fair people per square mile to immigration ratio for all the coutries of the world.

The only reason we're better off is because someone else isn't. Now we're better off because East Asian sweatshop workers make all our cheap goods so we can afford to buy loads of stuff with our comparatively high wages. Tell you what, why not get British workers employed making all our goods! Oh, wait, now a jumper costs £200 because our workers want £5.50 an hour instead of £5 a week. Now we're all poor and hate the government. Revolution! You see the problem here? That's why we have such high unemployment.

So tell me if you're in the nude at the moment, because I bet you have the sweat and tears of those sweatshop employees on your clothes too. I'm sorry, but that sounds hypocritical.
As for the actual issue, is East Asia part of Britian? No. Can we do anything other than persuade the nation's leaders to raise their pay? No. Even if they did, would that balance out the world ecconomy? No, No, No. A society like a political Pangaea could even this out, where everyone gets a "minimum wage," and ecconomy is one currency. But because we're all different countries, we govern differently (hence the need of interest rates) and we simply can tell other leaders what to do.

Did I pass judgment on this situation Chaz? No I didn't, so it's hard to see how I'm being hypocritical. I just outlined what the situation is - I didn't say I think it's terrible or claim to know how to solve it. Perhaps if someone gave me a massive research grant and a peerage then I might find the time to devote to finding a solution. You've said twice that we can't influence other countries - But that's exactly what the European Parliament does. MP's from 27 different countries get together and make decisions which affect all of those countries. They aren't the most effective government I'll agree, but they've only been in existance as an entity for 30 years. A World Government wouldn't be any different than the expanding EU, just adding more countries until they are all in a no passports required, freedom of movement, live anywhere work anywhere society where the prices and wages will gradually even out*. If it can work for the EU why not the World?I just don't see what people could have against that.

*The reason this isn't happening in Britain, indeed the reason "rip-off Britain" exists is because we don't have the Euro. The rest of Europe already has the same interest rate.

 

[Yuvie]

It happened here in Swindon, 'race wars' that is. Fueled by the BNP. Luckily we managed to kick the BNP out of Swindon. Gone but not forgotten. I work with a heck of a lot of 'white english' (who also work peacefully amongst other ethnic groups and on the surface seem to get on well with them) and they seem happy to believe in this BNP nonsense like they're the saviour of british politics.

I agree with your second paragraph. My partner is from what many would perceive as a 3rd world country and I'm proud of her and what she has managed to achieve and only when you see how some people live or should I say survive in other countries, it doesn't surprise me at all that they wanna set-up shop in the UK and make a better life for themselves. The majority who come here permanently integrate themselves into society well. More than I can say for us brits who end up living in what can only be called the english slums of Spain.

 

[Ryo Chan]

where does this ripped off Britian come from?

If we join the Euro, we're still going to end up importing most of our goods from other countries, we're an island nation, it's what we do.

No if you'd rather pay higher prices for items from the US cause the dollar is = to the euro, be my guest, but i'm happy with my 20% discounts tyvm

I agree with your second paragraph. My partner is from what many would perceive as a 3rd world country and I'm proud of her and what she has managed to achieve and only when you see how some people live or should I say survive in other countries, it doesn't surprise me at all that they wanna set-up shop in the UK and make a better life for themselves. The majority who come here permanently integrate themselves into society well. More than I can say for us brits who end up living in what can only be called the english slums of Spain.

yeah i have noticed that, yes we have "Muslim zones" and "Polish zones" here, but they are as you say, mixed in with everyone else, not sat out on the outskirts of the citys like in spain.

 

[Yuvie]

People need educating, too often they see someone as a threat. If only people took the time to get to know eachother then maybe we could make real changes in this country. That's the biggest problem, how many people can you actually say have gone out of their way to get to know someone from another ethnic group? I've worked in several different places and I've always made it a thing to get to know everyone whether they're white, african, asian, or whatever. Not only do you make new friends but you also learn a lot about other cultures, religions and histories.

I wish people would just open their minds a bit more.

 

[Chaz]

So tell me if you're in the nude at the moment, because I bet you have the sweat and tears of those sweatshop employees on your clothes too. I'm sorry, but that sounds hypocritical.
As for the actual issue, is East Asia part of Britian? No. Can we do anything other than persuade the nation's leaders to raise their pay? No. Even if they did, would that balance out the world ecconomy? No, No, No. A society like a political Pangaea could even this out, where everyone gets a "minimum wage," and ecconomy is one currency. But because we're all different countries, we govern differently (hence the need of interest rates) and we simply can tell other leaders what to do.

Did I pass judgment on this situation Chaz? No I didn't, so it's hard to see how I'm being hypocritical. I just outlined what the situation is - I didn't say I think it's terrible or claim to know how to solve it. Perhaps if someone gave me a massive research grant and a peerage then I might find the time to devote to finding a solution.

But why use an example of which you yourself is probably taking part of, in terms of buying clothes from shops selling Asian made merchandise? Bringing up an example like that is trying to prove how the situation has come to be, pointing out the (negative) facts that we get payed better than they do. I just caught onto the vibe that there was blame towards how unfair it was, even though you and I take advantage of that fact. Like I've said before, it's just how it is living in the Capitalist society.

You've said twice that we can't influence other countries - But that's exactly what the European Parliament does. MP's from 27 different countries get together and make decisions which affect all of those countries. They aren't the most effective government I'll agree, but they've only been in existance as an entity for 30 years. A World Government wouldn't be any different than the expanding EU, just adding more countries until they are all in a no passports required, freedom of movement, live anywhere work anywhere society where the prices and wages will gradually even out*. If it can work for the EU why not the World?I just don't see what people could have against that.

1) It would still scare me knowing that the whole world's decisions are made by the select few. I cant get my head over the scale of which these people will have to cover, with their own issues pushed amongst other countries' issues. There'll probably be a huge mess of issues coming from left-right-and-center centralised in one group. That will take some organisation and effort to pull this off.
We've had Brown in for a certain amount of time, and within that time, things have gotten worse and worse. Imagine that on a larger scale, and we may have world revolution.
2) I'm sure a free range world would scare the heck out of the world ministers, as they cant track potential threats as easily as with boarders. At least with check-in stands, you may catch a criminal or a terrorist or immergrants. Getting rid of passports would mean a walk-through permission to enter an area.

 

[Zin5ki]

It is a true shame that the BNP are gaining any kind of power. I'm shocked that the education system has failed those in the Yorkshire constituency so badly.

No sweeping generalisations about my fellow Yorkshiremen please. This result only makes 120,139 of them officially idiots.

From my long experience, a great many more are only unofficially so.

 

[ayase]

It is a true shame that the BNP are gaining any kind of power. I'm shocked that the education system has failed those in the Yorkshire constituency so badly.

No sweeping generalisations about my fellow Yorkshiremen please. This result only makes 120,139 of them officially idiots.

From my long experience, a great many more are only unofficially so.

That feature of humanity is hardly unique to Yorkshire though, is it?