A Dark Day For United Kingdom Politics
- Thread starter SciFiBoy!
- Start date
Hey, I voted! I've already mentioned that in the "what have you done today" thread, so you should know it wasn't my fault. Besides, I dont care if they're nationalists, capitalist or communist, I never trust a politician - full stop.
But yeah, not too happy with an actual nationalist on the seats. I aint ashamed of who I am though.
But yeah, not too happy with an actual nationalist on the seats. I aint ashamed of who I am though.
SundayMorningCall said:
tbf, i only voted UKIP for europe because they seem to be the only ones interested in keeping our currency and laws, ours and not europes
As for the BNP, Burnleys full of inbreds anyway, so no loss
and isn't shaming people cause of what they voted kinda anti-british anyway, it is a democracy after all, not that i support the BNP
Ryo Chan said:SundayMorningCall said:
tbf, i only voted UKIP for europe because they seem to be the only ones interested in keeping our currency and laws, ours and not europes
As for the BNP, Burnleys full of inbreds anyway, so no loss
and isn't shaming people cause of what they voted kinda anti-british anyway, it is a democracy after all, not that i support the BNP
i have no problem if people vote for a party i dont like, but when that party is also racist and/or xenophobic, then i take issue with it, surely anyone would?
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
If UK citizens really think they'd be better off without European laws, better off without freedom of movement in Europe, better off without getting money from the EU for it's farms and infrastructure, then just stop being a member state and stop taking money from the French, Germans, Italians, etc.! Euroskepticism is so absurd. The EU has benefited it's citizens hugely, and if people can't appreciate and be grateful of that and seek to undermine it by electing anti-EU dolts, then they should should **** right off and stop having those huge benefits that we all, as Europeans, take for granted.
/end rant about UKIP
It is a true shame that the BNP are gaining any kind of power. I'm shocked that the education system has failed those in the Yorkshire constituency so badly.
/end rant about UKIP
It is a true shame that the BNP are gaining any kind of power. I'm shocked that the education system has failed those in the Yorkshire constituency so badly.
ayase
State Alchemist
No sweeping generalisations about my fellow Yorkshiremen please. This result only makes 120,139 of them officially idiots.CitizenGeek said:
I see no reason to be ashamed either. If you didn't vote for them then you have nothing to be ashamed for - And it wouldn't be too democratic (or in the spirit of freedom of speech - which is something Britain should represent) to ban them. All you can do is oppose them at any chance you have and make sure everyone you know is aware of what nasty, racist policies they have.
UKIP are just a do nothing party. They don't directly oppose the EU because they aren't strong enough to (Even if they took every European seat in the UK they still wouldn't have the power to take us out of Europe - They'd need to take Westminster for that). They just don't vote on most legislation - they might as well just not be there. All having UKIP MEP's means is that Britain has even less of a say in Europe - The opposite of what they claim to want.
CitizenGeek said:
all about pros and cons in the end
yes i agree there are many reason to join the EU, but many reasons also not to.
1 such reason is it's hard enough for brits to get jobs in the UK because of immergrants taking jobs cause they ask for less pay, with us joining the EU that would become even harder, cause more would be allowed in, and would just further the BNP's power as people begin to dislike it more and more.
Also all the cheap region 1 DVD's would sky rocket, bar the reccession we're in the £ is usually much stronger than the euro.
atleast with the current situation, we brits get (to steal a line from Miley Cirus) the best of both worlds
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
"Immigrants are taking our jobs!" is a mindless canard. And the people of every country fall for it when things get tough. If there's a lack of jobs, it's because your government has failed to secure enough investment and failed to protect the jobs that were in place. Besides, immigrants do the jobs most Western Europeans don't want to do and are required for growth in countries with ageing or unproductive populations. We actually need immigrants to sustain big economic growth. But once things get hard, it's their fault the people can't get jobs.
Ryo Chan said:
why do you we think we had soo many boom years?
immigration, they do the jobs, UK people dont want to do, they keep the economy going, without them, jobs would not be done aswell, so we need them.
certainly one could make a case for tighter controls on who we let in, but for closing the borders? theres no case that can be made for that, it just makes the UK seem like a horrible backward racsit nation, which were not, but doing it sends that message to the rest of the world
Now might be a good time to move to Canada...
Surely the fact that there isn't enough jobs going around is because we import just about everything from overseas. We don't really have much of an industry and all the skilled jobs are being disbanded. The real problem seems to be that we live in a country that is on the fast track to become one that does nothing but retail imports.
While they may not be racist, they are certainly short sighted.
Surely the fact that there isn't enough jobs going around is because we import just about everything from overseas. We don't really have much of an industry and all the skilled jobs are being disbanded. The real problem seems to be that we live in a country that is on the fast track to become one that does nothing but retail imports.
While they may not be racist, they are certainly short sighted.
Topic about immergration - I dont really agree with CG's or SMC's views on the UK public getting the easy life by bringing in a fleet load of immergrants just to work on jobs "we" dont want to. I'm not saying that CG/SMC are wrong with the assumption, I just think its a horrible way of thinking for the British citizens.
I DONT want to be in retail. I WOULDNT want to work as a industrial cleaner. But I want money in my pocket, and I'd take any job that was given. I bet there are others in that position, but with the foreigners taking these spots there's no chance.
Our priority is the UK-born citizens, not the outsiders. Or else we may as well call ourselves "little earth" since we have such flexible ideals for our policies. I'm not saying close boarders either, but more like accept people in when we are comfortably helping out our own citizens. I dont think we're in that position, so we should limit who DESERVES to be here and who should be given a chance more than leaving the boarders wide open for everyone.
So to say that "anyone will do" whether they're UK based or not is irresponsible and disgusting! I'd be just as ashamed of a country like that as the BNP taking over! Being too facist is one thing, but (even as a liberal) being too slack the other extreme.
I DONT want to be in retail. I WOULDNT want to work as a industrial cleaner. But I want money in my pocket, and I'd take any job that was given. I bet there are others in that position, but with the foreigners taking these spots there's no chance.
Our priority is the UK-born citizens, not the outsiders. Or else we may as well call ourselves "little earth" since we have such flexible ideals for our policies. I'm not saying close boarders either, but more like accept people in when we are comfortably helping out our own citizens. I dont think we're in that position, so we should limit who DESERVES to be here and who should be given a chance more than leaving the boarders wide open for everyone.
So to say that "anyone will do" whether they're UK based or not is irresponsible and disgusting! I'd be just as ashamed of a country like that as the BNP taking over! Being too facist is one thing, but (even as a liberal) being too slack the other extreme.
ayase
State Alchemist
Guess I'm irresponsible and disgusting too then.
We shouldn't be "Little Earth" we should be "United Earth" with a level playing field for everyone. No-one should be entitled to special treatment just because they happen to have been born in a prosperous country. What would happen if you couldn't get a job in the Third World? - You'd probably starve to death. Here that won't happen. The government will prop you up, so I honestly don't know what people are complaining about. If you have a job you get paid, if you don't have a job you get benefits (unless you're living with say, parents who earn a decent wage in which case you shouldn't need them anyway).
I guess I'm fairly happy to accept the irresponsible label thinking about it. I'm all for tearing down all the borders and tearing up all the citizenship papers. The EU parliament is the first step - we should cede all control to them and then once there are a few continental parliaments we should start electing a world government. It's the only way humanity can move forward and forget it's petty national interests.
We shouldn't be "Little Earth" we should be "United Earth" with a level playing field for everyone. No-one should be entitled to special treatment just because they happen to have been born in a prosperous country. What would happen if you couldn't get a job in the Third World? - You'd probably starve to death. Here that won't happen. The government will prop you up, so I honestly don't know what people are complaining about. If you have a job you get paid, if you don't have a job you get benefits (unless you're living with say, parents who earn a decent wage in which case you shouldn't need them anyway).
I guess I'm fairly happy to accept the irresponsible label thinking about it. I'm all for tearing down all the borders and tearing up all the citizenship papers. The EU parliament is the first step - we should cede all control to them and then once there are a few continental parliaments we should start electing a world government. It's the only way humanity can move forward and forget it's petty national interests.
chaos
The Boss
On immigration matters, I have some "inside" information.
I agree it's important and positive for the country on the high end of the line. The rites of passage I've been throught to get a Visa includes some pretty hard conditions. For my first Visa, the company had to prove they announced the job opening in job centres and a large circulation medium and no british or european were a fit for it.
Was it a matter of pay that british and european didn't want the job? I don't really think so, as I did lots of research before accepting the job and I know for sure the payment as right.
Considering how difficult it was to fill some of the positions they had, I'd say we had a shortage of skilled workers.
Problem lies on the lower end jobs. An immigrant on a cleaning job who barely speaks english is more likely to be explored and accept lower wages. This considering we are talking about some EU citizen who actually has rights to come over. If we are talking about the illegal immigrant base, then the issue is much worst.
Some friends were out of job for a few months and finally found a job. A couple weeks before getting the job, these said persons were completely negative, unwilling to do anything, etc.
I agree it's important and positive for the country on the high end of the line. The rites of passage I've been throught to get a Visa includes some pretty hard conditions. For my first Visa, the company had to prove they announced the job opening in job centres and a large circulation medium and no british or european were a fit for it.
Was it a matter of pay that british and european didn't want the job? I don't really think so, as I did lots of research before accepting the job and I know for sure the payment as right.
Considering how difficult it was to fill some of the positions they had, I'd say we had a shortage of skilled workers.
Problem lies on the lower end jobs. An immigrant on a cleaning job who barely speaks english is more likely to be explored and accept lower wages. This considering we are talking about some EU citizen who actually has rights to come over. If we are talking about the illegal immigrant base, then the issue is much worst.
Not too long ago I've seen an article on causes of depression which said that unemployment is the depression cause with the most lasting effects. surpassing illnesses and death of a loved one.Ayase said:
Some friends were out of job for a few months and finally found a job. A couple weeks before getting the job, these said persons were completely negative, unwilling to do anything, etc.
ayase
State Alchemist
But as we create better machines to do jobs of people, the overall number of workers we need is going down. We can't stop the rise in unemployment - There's nothing else we need people to do! Either someone in the UK is unemployed or someone elsewhere will be. There are two choices here: Peacefully reduce the population over time so that there are only as many people as are needed (one thing China has right) or create such fantastic machines that they can do all the work and provide for everyone, with humanity becoming more or less a race of hedonists. If we don't pick one of these options then the inevitable third scenario doesn't bear thinking about: The non-voluntary reduction of population. And that's where people like the BNP come in.
A good start would be ripping out all those self service machines they've started putting in places like Tesco and I think Sainsburys now. Of course they won't get rid of them though because in the long run they'll work out cheaper than hiring an actual person on the tills. This is where I draw the line where equipment replaces a person. How long before it's all self service?
Hey, a pacifist world is nice, but unrealistic. A united world is, again, nice, but unrealistic. You could have 80% of the world in agreement, but there'll always be those who oppose.
This single world government sounds like something you'd get in, I dunno... Gundam? Isn't that in it's own right giving up our views to a single group of people, who know possibly nothing about the issues in a representative's own country? You're saying this group can govern the largest space possible (the earth) with one super-government when atm we cant even govern our own little island (Britain)? The scale is too vast! Like a group of 7 workers working on a huge multi-national company. You can have 100/1000/10 000 seats on the government, but unless focus can be made on the troubles of a local area, then problems will be overlooked, issues will rise, and revolution will occur. Take Labour's ministers quiting as an example of Blair/Brown's failure. (Yes, this hasn't been a short problem.)
And then what would happen if we did unite, but not under a proper democratic group, but a more forceful group? It only takes a charismatic and intelligent person, and a bunch of followers to become powerful... A united group under another Hitler? Humanity fell for it one time, who's to say it cant happen again?
As for the differences between the different classes of national state (Third World/Western etc.), That's because of the problems in that area. The UK has issues with import/export, of which it worked on to become what it is. Our fathers and fore-fathers worked hard to give us this!
A third-world country would probably have problems with learning to or having the materials to grow from an agricultural lifestyle to a busty and lively ecconomy/industrial community. A "westerner" could spot an oil-rig opportunity much easier than a native Third Worlder because they had the means and the knowledge to do so. This is ecconomical evolution of one country taking advantage of a missed Third world opportunity, simply because:
1: The natives had no idea what they could accomplish within their own area. This is not of fault to the "westerners."
2: The Westerners are able to waltz in and claim something that only the high level businessmen of the third world could object to, of which they could negotiate. But the businessmen wont give anything to the poorer natives.
That's why we have a difference between the 2. With the above scenario, of course the western world is better off than the third world. That is a sad fact of evolution, even within our own species. Unless we can give these people a means of opportunity (i.e. making deserts a more lucious to stop starvation with more crops, or give materials for machinery), or the knowledge of opportunities (i.e. teach people how to do new things, make the most of existing problems etc.), this is how it's always going to be.
To blame people of being born in prosperous countries is a blind assumption to the fact you got to change the world DRAMATICALLY before you can change the issue. I didn't choose to be born here, but even if we aint starving, it still can be hard to keep a roof over your head in a prospeous country.
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And that is how 2 short paragraphs of an idealist approach to a complex problem becomes a full-blown lecture/arguement.
chaos
The Boss
Taking advantage of a missed opportunity of one country is what created the huge gap between your so called western and third world countries in the first place.Chaz said:
Technology which creates a thing called opportunity. And this has been monopolized in a subtle and effective way - Scholarships.
Gather all talent from third world and bring them over here to produce and advance technology which then will be used as a means of "colonization" which is much more effective as making them a colony per se - economical and technological dependency.