The football thread!

Mutsumi said:
ayase said:
Mutsumi said:
How can they get so deeply in debt? It is stupid, they should have had people checking the numbers, telling them "STOP SPENDING, WE'VE RUN OUT OF MONEY". Their own fault.
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You talking about western governments there Mutsu? No business ever folded with zero debt, that's not the way things work. A business / govt / individual thinks "financial situation isn't great, I'll borrow some money to tide us over until things pick up, or to invest in something which will hopefully pay off". Then it doesn't, and they are left with even more debt. If they can, they'll probably keep repeating that scenario until no-one will lend them any more money. Once you're in that hole you might as well keep digging - The worst that can happen these days is bankruptcy, and the money you're borrowing has been conjoured into existence on a computer screen anyway.
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It is just as bad, if not worse that governments have also been doing this. Letting a business die is ok, but governments are playing with the futures of their people by doing so. You shouldn't try to borrow your way out of debt, surely that much is obvious to everyone here?
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Continued away from football.
 
Mutsumi said:
Wow, read in the new that apparently Rangers are pretty much destroyed because they didn't pay £14million in tax they owed, in addition to over £70million in other debts to the government. How can they get so deeply in debt? It is stupid, they should have had people checking the numbers, telling them "STOP SPENDING, WE'VE RUN OUT OF MONEY". Their own fault.
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The whole mess is the doing of a few greedy individuals; not the club. Stop spouting **** and actually read the story behind it before commenting.
 
MaxonTreik said:
Mutsumi said:
Wow, read in the new that apparently Rangers are pretty much destroyed because they didn't pay £14million in tax they owed, in addition to over £70million in other debts to the government. How can they get so deeply in debt? It is stupid, they should have had people checking the numbers, telling them "STOP SPENDING, WE'VE RUN OUT OF MONEY". Their own fault.
Click to expand...
The whole mess is the doing of a few greedy individuals; not the club. Stop spouting **** and actually read the story behind it before commenting.
Click to expand...
Are these not the greedy individuals who run the club though? Did the club try to stop them doing these acts that brought it into such debt, or were they complicit? I googled for articles, but all I got were articles about what is happening now, not how it got there. If you can link me an impartial article about how they got in that mess, I'll read it.
 
Michael Laudrup has got the Swansea job, I think it's a very smart appointment. Also, Yay for Di Matteo getting the Chelsea job!

Looks like Andy Carroll could start alongside Danny Welbeck tonight against Sweden. Back to hoofing long balls up top it is :p
 
Fairly worried. Though our team in general should be better than Sweden's we don't have anyone who can score like Ibrahimovic (I don't think even Rooney compares). If he's having a good day we might be in trouble. Plus there's our track record of never really beign able to beat Sweden...

We need to win this one!
 
Mutsumi said:
MaxonTreik said:
Mutsumi said:
Wow, read in the new that apparently Rangers are pretty much destroyed because they didn't pay £14million in tax they owed, in addition to over £70million in other debts to the government. How can they get so deeply in debt? It is stupid, they should have had people checking the numbers, telling them "STOP SPENDING, WE'VE RUN OUT OF MONEY". Their own fault.
Click to expand...
The whole mess is the doing of a few greedy individuals; not the club. Stop spouting **** and actually read the story behind it before commenting.
Click to expand...
Are these not the greedy individuals who run the club though? Did the club try to stop them doing these acts that brought it into such debt, or were they complicit? I googled for articles, but all I got were articles about what is happening now, not how it got there. If you can link me an impartial article about how they got in that mess, I'll read it.
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Do you honestly think those people that owned the club would let on to other people at the club that there were dodgy deals going on?

Check any news site, like the BBC. I'm not doing a search for you just because you're incapable of doing it yourself.
 
I like the fact that the football is currently stopped due to bad rain. Now the French get to experience what English cricket players have to on a weekly basis.
 
Footballpapers.png


Sweden's DeLorean being used to good use it seems.
 
Not the best of watches but so far so good, it was a brilliant ball from Gerrard and one thumping header from Carroll. Hopefully we can keep that up for the 2nd half and get another goal.

EDIT: Spoke too soon, some shocking defending and we're totally up against it now

EDIT2: F*** me that was intense. I was hoping for a boring, uneventful second half. England did it the hard way but Theo Walcott was immense when he came on.
 
MaxonTreik said:
Mutsumi said:
MaxonTreik said:
Mutsumi said:
Wow, read in the new that apparently Rangers are pretty much destroyed because they didn't pay £14million in tax they owed, in addition to over £70million in other debts to the government. How can they get so deeply in debt? It is stupid, they should have had people checking the numbers, telling them "STOP SPENDING, WE'VE RUN OUT OF MONEY". Their own fault.
Click to expand...
The whole mess is the doing of a few greedy individuals; not the club. Stop spouting **** and actually read the story behind it before commenting.
Click to expand...
Are these not the greedy individuals who run the club though? Did the club try to stop them doing these acts that brought it into such debt, or were they complicit? I googled for articles, but all I got were articles about what is happening now, not how it got there. If you can link me an impartial article about how they got in that mess, I'll read it.
Click to expand...
Do you honestly think those people that owned the club would let on to other people at the club that there were dodgy deals going on?

Check any news site, like the BBC. I'm not doing a search for you just because you're incapable of doing it yourself.
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So it was the club's owners then? How does owning the club and running the club not make them an integral part of the club?
 
Russia beat the Czechs 4 - 1 in the first match yet got knocked out after Greece beat them 1 - 0 today (Russia finished 3rd below Greece and the Czechs due to losing to Greece in the head to head).
 
Mutsumi said:
MaxonTreik said:
Mutsumi said:
MaxonTreik said:
Mutsumi said:
Wow, read in the new that apparently Rangers are pretty much destroyed because they didn't pay £14million in tax they owed, in addition to over £70million in other debts to the government. How can they get so deeply in debt? It is stupid, they should have had people checking the numbers, telling them "STOP SPENDING, WE'VE RUN OUT OF MONEY". Their own fault.
Click to expand...
The whole mess is the doing of a few greedy individuals; not the club. Stop spouting **** and actually read the story behind it before commenting.
Click to expand...
Are these not the greedy individuals who run the club though? Did the club try to stop them doing these acts that brought it into such debt, or were they complicit? I googled for articles, but all I got were articles about what is happening now, not how it got there. If you can link me an impartial article about how they got in that mess, I'll read it.
Click to expand...
Do you honestly think those people that owned the club would let on to other people at the club that there were dodgy deals going on?

Check any news site, like the BBC. I'm not doing a search for you just because you're incapable of doing it yourself.
Click to expand...
So it was the club's owners then? How does owning the club and running the club not make them an integral part of the club?
Click to expand...
So, we've established that it was the club's own fault that they went bust, because the people running it done goofed with the money.

The real question now is whether they are gone forever. If someone makes a new team with the same name, can it ever be thought of as being the same team reborn, or just a new team with the same name? What would need to be present for it to be regarded as the old team reborn? According to the player union, they all become free agents and can go where they wish once the old club ceases to be, so how would any new club be able to secure the necessary players to be anything close to what it once was?
 
Mutsumi said:
The real question now is whether they are gone forever. If someone makes a new team with the same name, can it ever be thought of as being the same team reborn, or just a new team with the same name? What would need to be present for it to be regarded as the old team reborn? According to the player union, they all become free agents and can go where they wish once the old club ceases to be, so how would any new club be able to secure the necessary players to be anything close to what it once was?
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Neither players nor league position has any impact upon a club's identity. See AFC Wimbledon's example.

If a fan were to support a different SPL club over a newly formed Rangers in the lower leagues, you'd have to call their motivations as a fan into question.
 
VoxPhantom said:
Mutsumi said:
The real question now is whether they are gone forever. If someone makes a new team with the same name, can it ever be thought of as being the same team reborn, or just a new team with the same name? What would need to be present for it to be regarded as the old team reborn? According to the player union, they all become free agents and can go where they wish once the old club ceases to be, so how would any new club be able to secure the necessary players to be anything close to what it once was?
Click to expand...
Neither players nor league position has any impact upon a club's identity. See AFC Wimbledon's example.

If a fan were to support a different SPL club over a newly formed Rangers in the lower leagues, you'd have to call their motivations as a fan into question.
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What is it they are a fan of, though? Just the name? If something is destroyed, and then something else is built and given the same name, is it really the same thing? Likely the location will remain the same though, and that would be an important factor in taking on the old club's identity for the benefit of the new club. Even if it technically will not be the same club, people can comfort themselves by convincing themselves it is the same club, and this is easier if the new club uses the same name, location and wears the same colours.

This does of course raise the question of what do football fans really support when they support a club? The only things which really seem to be constant are the main colours worn, the name, and the location; owners, managers, players, these all change. How much can you change before it ceases to be what the original was? And if the only constant factors are merely superficial, does this not highlight the folly of how emotional some fans get over it all?

Lastly, Vox, what are their motivations as fans? What is it they are loyal to?
 
Mutsumi said:
What is it they are a fan of, though? Just the name? If something is destroyed, and then something else is built and given the same name, is it really the same thing? Likely the location will remain the same though, and that would be an important factor in taking on the old club's identity for the benefit of the new club. Even if it technically will not be the same club, people can comfort themselves by convincing themselves it is the same club, and this is easier if the new club uses the same name, location and wears the same colours.

This does of course raise the question of what do football fans really support when they support a club? The only things which really seem to be constant are the main colours worn, the name, and the location; owners, managers, players, these all change. How much can you change before it ceases to be what the original was? And if the only constant factors are merely superficial, does this not highlight the folly of how emotional some fans get over it all?

Lastly, Vox, what are their motivations as fans? What is it they are loyal to?
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I think you might enjoy this Mutsumi: http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergradu ... on/q43.htm

You seem to be using this thread as an opportunity to try and point out all the things you don't like or understand about football and the people who enjoy it. You could ask all those questions about so many other things like patriotism or loyalty to brand name merchandise. It isn't unique to football, it's just the way a lot of people behave. If you want to discuss philosophical and psychological theories of why people behave a certain way, we can do that outside the context of a thread which is supposed to be for people who are actually interested in football to discuss current goings-on in the world of football. You didn't seem too interested in doing that earlier though, so I have a rather large suspicion you're just trolling the f*ck out of the thread. Are you a bit bored at the moment?
 
ayase said:
Mutsumi said:
What is it they are a fan of, though? Just the name? If something is destroyed, and then something else is built and given the same name, is it really the same thing? Likely the location will remain the same though, and that would be an important factor in taking on the old club's identity for the benefit of the new club. Even if it technically will not be the same club, people can comfort themselves by convincing themselves it is the same club, and this is easier if the new club uses the same name, location and wears the same colours.

This does of course raise the question of what do football fans really support when they support a club? The only things which really seem to be constant are the main colours worn, the name, and the location; owners, managers, players, these all change. How much can you change before it ceases to be what the original was? And if the only constant factors are merely superficial, does this not highlight the folly of how emotional some fans get over it all?

Lastly, Vox, what are their motivations as fans? What is it they are loyal to?
Click to expand...
I think you might enjoy this Mutsumi: http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergradu ... on/q43.htm

You seem to be using this thread as an opportunity to try and point out all the things you don't like or understand about football and the people who enjoy it. You could ask all those questions about so many other things like patriotism or loyalty to brand name merchandise. It isn't unique to football, it's just the way a lot of people behave. If you want to discuss philosophical and psychological theories of why people behave a certain way, we can do that outside the context of a thread which is supposed to be for people who are actually interested in football to discuss current goings-on in the world of football. You didn't seem too interested in doing that earlier though, so I have a rather large suspicion you're just trolling the f*ck out of the thread. Are you a bit bored at the moment?
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With patriotism there are some simple answers; one might feel that way about a country because they are a citizen of it, and they feel a bond with it for that reason, or they believe that their country is superior to others. Brand loyalty is often due to the way it is marketed, in how it makes the consumer associate it with positive ideas; you buy into the illusion they create as much as you buy the product. An answer to why such loyalty occurs within football would interest me. Is it really just a slight variation on brand loyalty, as I believe it to be? To hear from people under it's effect would bring answers, I hope.

If I craft an interesting philosophical question out of the context of footballing current events, it is as worthy of being here as any other post; it fulfils all the criteria for being on-topic and sensible.

Lastly, I like the link. It is just the kind of thing I would go for, but for the price. I do not need to acquire a qualification in that subject, so I am inclined more towards learning more for its own sake, and for that I could just buy some books. Thank you for the link all the same though.
 
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