Should religion be an excuse for carrying daggers?

Tachi

Tachi

Mushi-shi
The most recent worry for the youth of today is the ever growing knife crime in the UK. So to hear on the radio that local schools in bedfordshire have decided that Sikhs are allowed to take KIRPANS to school.

"Given the UK's well-publicised problem with knife crime, his suggestion is controversial. It raises the question of how far society should "bend the rules" to accommodate people who wish to practise a religion."

An old press release, but covers the same topic:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8506074.stm


The most alarming thing is the Criminal Justice Act 1988, which bans blade carrying, has exemption for religion

So for instance if i could invent a religion and as part of my attire i must walk around the country with a sword comparible to cloud strifes sword? and wear a cloaked hood like a jedi and if confronted by anyone over my religion i could refer to the criminal justice act 1988? it just wouldn't cut it (no pun intended)

views?
 
Hmm... can't say I'm in favour of it but...
It is a defensive weapon, but really I don't think that makes much difference, and I don't know what ages these kids are- but I'm not convinced I'd trust them with Kirpan's even if they are some how all sensible, perfect and well meaning about it I can still see it being an issue- say if someone were to take one.

I don't have any objection on principle of "this is pandering to minorities" etc, but I do to the idea that Religion should be mixed with education (in state schools) and the school should be a secular environment with no exceptions (that includes prayers, crosses, veils etc.) If people want the choice of paying to go to a "faith" school then fine, that is their right.
 
Hidan would have a field-day in the UK... No-one can carry a blade but him, so it'll make sacrifices more like a genocide. Jashin will be pleased.

This is just annoying... Can we or cant we have blades? Where and when can it be allowed? These should be accepted by all, and exceptions shouldn't be needed. "By religion" is an old excuse, and this sucks balls.

If it's a religious thing for blades to be carried, then they should stretch that allowance to everyone. And if that's the case, it should be obviously displayed, so people know if they a cause for caution. In a knife-crime society, that would be more idealistic.

But even better would be to allow blades in certain places expected to have blades (Private accomodations, certain areas of worship, work -butchers for example-, showcases, etc.) That way, they wont be trafficed from place-to-place in a 'normal' routine. (I say normal, because they have to get to these places somehow, and monitoring everything will be a bitch.)

To allow exceptions it to give way to an issue, like a crack in the wall of a dam. If you want this to stand, keep it tight - otherwise let it flow. For something that can become a big problem, it's never good to stand between the lines of things.
 
Chaz said:
Hidan would have a field-day in the UK... No-one can carry a blade but him, so it'll make sacrifices more like a genocide. Jashin will be pleased.
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Strangely enough i thought the same thing lol

Chaz said:
This is just annoying... Can we or cant we have blades? Where and when can it be allowed? These should be accepted by all, and exceptions shouldn't be needed. "By religion" is an old excuse, and this sucks balls.


To allow exceptions it to give way to an issue, like a crack in the wall of a dam. If you want this to stand, keep it tight - otherwise let it flow. For something that can become a big problem, it's never good to stand between the lines of things.
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I agree, as i said before, where does it end? can they say yes to a 6 inch kirpan but no to a full length sword despite both being part of a religion?

i would like to pose the question "is it really needed?" because if there was a god, and he wished us to walk this earth in peace, why would he have us walking around with knives? surely that defeats the purpose of being peaceful?

But yes, a defined yes or no would make more sense. considering curved blades are illegal but straight blades are not, religious or not the kirpan is a curved blade and should be treated the same as any other blade.

the possibility that this could encourage knife related crimes is apparent aswell, whats to say a sensible sihk brings his kirpan into school, the other kids think its cool and take to carrying stanley knives around to be "cool"? caught in the wrong place at the wrong time or the wrong mood can lead to voilence (just think back to how many times any of us have crossed the road to avoid a dodgy looking group or individual) unprovoked muggings can result in stabbings, whats to stop a kid with a knife because he's trying to be cool trying to protect himself from a mugger and end up killing them by mistake?
 
ilmaestro said:
Does anyone want to join my new religion? It requires that I be allowed to ceremonially watch anime during work time.
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i said something along the lines when moaning about my muslim manager having another day off for Ed, or however it's spelt

wonder how many days u get off for joining the Jedi religion
 
I'm up for up becoming an Assassin and joining to kill those damn Templars! We all know that it is all real! The evidence is there!

Plus I want an excuse to carry around a hidden blade and all the other cool toys ;)
 
King Jimmeh said:
I'm up for up becoming an Assassin and joining to kill those damn Templars! We all know that it is all real! The evidence is there!

Plus I want an excuse to carry around a hidden blade and all the other cool toys ;)
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¬_¬ That kinda breaks my ideal of no blades or if so, make them visable idea. lol.
Bloody Assasins, cant just come out and say "I'm gonna kill ya!"
 
Tachi- said:
The most alarming thing is the Criminal Justice Act 1988, which bans blade carrying, has exemption for religion
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It's worth noting here that an act as all-encompassing as a CJA often has amendments made after the bill has been passed. Just a quick google shown up the Offensive Weapons Amendment.

There are others if you just look it up.

Also, we have several more CJA's since the 1988 one. The Criminal Justice Act 2003 being the most recent in title alone, but the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 being the most recent of all. It'd be well worth checking these acts to see if they have any further updates to the law regarding the matter.

Sadly, it's unlikely that our Government would have the balls to have amended such a law. Wikipedia says that it's allowed, but how reliable Wiki is at times like this... it's never great. I would scan the acts, but i've been having to read so many lately, I can't be bothered >.< (The Unfair Contract Terms Act, and Sale of Goods Act are hardly thrilling Dx)

As for my opinion, no, religion shouldn't be an excuse for breaking a law of any kind.
 
Stuart-says-yes said:
ilmaestro said:
Does anyone want to join my new religion? It requires that I be allowed to ceremonially watch anime during work time.
Click to expand...

Does anyone else get to watch anime if they become a member or just you?
Click to expand...
Hmm, good question. Just me, but I need you guys to make my religion look more legit. I will give you cupcakes in return.
 
Sikhism is a warrior based religion hence swords and knives being part of its religious paraphernalia. They have several items that begin with K that they should carry at all times the Kirpan knife is one of them. However if you talk to any serious Sikh they will tell you they do not need to carry a real knife something like a broach or pendant representing the Kirpan will do the same goes for the swords they should have as well.
 
The point I tried to make really was that there is already a work around in the Sikh religion which means the council would probably get no real opposition if they said you know what carrying a knife is not an option. It should be less of a problem in real terms than say some of the extremes that Muslims have gone to to hold on to spurious religious affections that may in real terms be on just as dodgy legal ground.
 
We should all be allowed whatever weapons we want. The point at which they're used on someone is when the authorities should get involved.
 
Hmm, so after someone gets shot and killed because they wouldn't choose their chocolate bar quickly enough from the vending machine, then the authorities should step in and stop it from happening?
 
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