Satoshi Kon in 4 days (ad-hoc simulwatch optional)

[Geriatric hedgehog]

The elephant in the room for me, and the reason why I personally prefer the two previous films, is that too much of this film is based on contrivances.

Didn't re-watch this but I agree with your assessment. Kon's take on a Christmas story and his most direct movie without any mind bending, for me heh, but still with a lot of heart and in my list of good Christmas movies. As @WMD mentioned, I liked how they took the properly downtrodden and looked down on members of society, often cruelly blamed for being the cause of their own woes, and treating them with honesty and sympathy, along with the humour. I was quite surprised there wasn't drug addiction thrown in but I guess the alcohol addiction was quite enough heh. And the humour was great as well, my favourite being the old hobo passing on, but not passing on, very much to Gin's surprise!

You can likely already guess my list:
1. Millennium Actress
2. Perfect Blue
3. Paprika
4. Tokyo Godfathers

 

[Lordhippos]

That's something I love about work from directors like Kon & Nolan - their work is quite accessible whilst being intelligent, without being too arthouse or needing knowledge of psychological & philosophical concepts per se (e.g. like Kunihara's work). So one can get the themes straight away and yet find new intricacies on every re-watch

I love most of the Nolan films, Tenet though is a bit too wtf for me, I don't think I'd get what was going on without really reading into things in a lot of detail, his previous films I'd agree I could get away with just watching it, and re-watching would provide further detail.

(By the way @Neil.T , thanks for clarifying this @ function, it's great and the auto-entry for names is really handy! But now I can't stop heh).

Don't tell him about the ability to select the text and then use the quick action to Quote or Reply @Neil.T , that will blow his mind!

Oh wow, that is genius, and I can see a terribly goooooood sequel in the making with a most innovative ending of it all having been in Rumi's head whilst admitted!

In another world with my idol talent manager!

Didn't re-watch this but I agree with your assessment. Kon's take on a Christmas story and his most direct movie without any mind bending, for me heh, but still with a lot of heart and in my list of good Christmas movies

I think I am just not that into Christmas movies, I don't sit down and watch them every year, so no nostalgia for me.

 

[D1tchd1gger]

Perfect Blue
Millennium Actress
Tokyo Godfathers

Turn 'em around and add Paprika to the bottom. I like my stories to be fairly straight forward (doesn't mean that a director can't add stuff in for people to look for Easter eggs, etc. like the MCU which has loads of stuff for the comic nerds to geek out on and The Matrix with the names of a lot of things giving a nod to various influences, but the stories are nice and fairly straightforward with plenty of action, etc.), so naturally the one you don't have to think too hard about goes top!

 

[Lordhippos]

Turn 'em around and add Paprika to the bottom. I like my stories to be fairly straight forward (doesn't mean that a director can't add stuff in for people to look for Easter eggs, etc. like the MCU which has loads of stuff for the comic nerds to geek out on and The Matrix with the names of a lot of things giving a nod to various influences, but the stories are nice and fairly straightforward with plenty of action, etc.), so naturally the one you don't have to think too hard about goes top!

I can totally get that, I often like my films and shows to have a bit of mystery and un-predictability put into them, I don't like to know exactly what will happen before I see it happen. My fav types of films are the Nolan ones like Inception/Interstellar, but I also like the MCU ones and Harry Potter, Gladiator, Matrix, John Wick, that kind of thing.

Sometimes I just want a film I can shut my brain off to, sometimes I want a film that will drag me in and make me wonder what the hell is going on. It can depend a little on my mood as to which I'd want to watch.

 

[Lordhippos]

Paprika. First time viewing.

This was, to me, the most complicated Satoshi film of them all. This film is the one I "got" the least during my first watch in terms of what was going on.

The opening sequence was pretty cool, we even got to see the bouncing girl animation make a return from Perfect Blue, but in a slightly more cheerful way. I think the opening set the stage for the rest of the film well, in how Paprika jumped between different locations.

I can certainly see where some inspiration may have come for the film Inception, but I'd rate this as more complicated than Inception on a 1st viewing personally.

The tech they use for the shared dreams was interesting, they attempted to explain how it worked but I must admit it kind of flew over my head a bit. I kind of preferred how Inception just showed them plugging in, and didn't really try and explain it.

The DC-mini seems like a bit of a crazy invention, even in the realms of sci-fi, it was like they didn't really consider how it could be abused by a bad actor. As a minimum the DC-mini should have been built into a much larger/harder to steal piece of equipment, or otherwise stored very securely.

Tokita was a unit wasn't he? I understand by the end we are shown that Atsuko loves him and they get married, but I can only describe Tokita as being on the quickest course possible to killing himself by over-eating. The show is all about the mind and what it can do, so Atsuko is overlooking the physical appearance for what's on the inside, but I didn't really get the vibe off either of them that there was more to their relationship until they showed it.

What follows beyond this is your standard sort of inside job, orchestrated by Xavier in his wheelchair, and Osanai who was jealous of the achievements or Tokita and Atsuko.

The dream within the dream and how the dreams were shared was at times hard to follow, because there was no anchor to the viewer as to what was real or not, until the procession showed up which confirmed that what we saw definitely wasn't real. Inception kind of tackled this by changing where they are location wise, which made it easy to follow how many layers down they were in the dream.

In the end Atsuko merged with the dream of Tokita to use his appetite for consumption to vacuum up the bad dream of Xavier which threatened the general populace? That was what I got from what I saw, but it's very possible my interpretation is wrong. In reality Xavier can't walk, but in the dream world he is a god who can do more or less anything. That would be a very seductive power for someone who is crippled.

Final summary from me is that this was a little too trippy for me, Inception strikes a good balance of the dream world, but even the dream world was shown to follow the laws of the real world more or less. The dream world in Paprika was very surreal and out there at times.

Final rankings:

• Perfect Blue
• Millennium Actress
• Paprika
• Tokyo Godfathers

I put Tokyo Godfather last but I think that's more a reflection of my feelings on Christmas films. I think Paprika would beat it on comprehension after a few watches.

 

[WMD]

Paprika is probably his film that most improves on rewatches. Heres what I wrote last time

Paprika

This movie is so glorious! First off the blending of a tense thriller with a poppy aesthetic is amazing and really feeds into the story that dreams are wondrous and intoxicating but you can lose yourself to dreams and forget to live. What's interesting is that almost every character is guilty of this in some way.

• Atsuko Chiba literally is literally shunning the fun of her personality to chase the academic dream. This then becomes Paprika, her dream self, which is her true dream.
• Kōsaku Tokita is chasing the idyllic dream of his genius, but is forgetting that their is more to life and his work. This is really stated by Chiba when she chides him over his "freakish masturbation"
• Detective Toshimi Konakawa is literally trapped in the dream of his past failure to the point that his entire present narrative is built around it.
• Morio Osanai is lost in his jealousy obsessing over the dreams of what he cant obtain for himself.
• Seijirō Inui is also trapped in a dream of the past but by the memories of what hes lost. His nostalgia leads him to deride the future and progress yet simultaneously try to corrupt it for his own backwards outlook.

I love the way Kon intros his films. They're so bait and switchy but that's why they're great and tie to themes so well. The intro makes us feel like fun will ensue with the clown then we're watching a cop crime drama then all hell breaks loose and a crazy genre swapping dream seque is taking place. Literally describing the whole film to come: a story of dreams and reality, that's a crime drama and fun poppy ride told in multiple genres with multiple stories going on that's going to go crazy by the end. All in a couple of minutes!

I also love how the OP evokes Perfect Blue with Paprika floating around in images and yet it's so much happier and wondrous than the sinister way Perfecr Blue used similar techniques.

And like all Kon films we get our stories within stories angle again. Especially with the Detective Konokawa whose entire life is a woven tapestry of fiction inspiring life, inspiring dreams, and then affecting life again and it's only by finishing his fictional story that his real life story can be allowed to bloom. I love how this all lead to a deconstruction of story telling where the detective and Paprika just discuss film making for a while.

I also appreciated the meta angle of Kons other films having posters up at the cinema at the end.

There's a lot of great dialogue in this film. One of my favourite lines being "Well, why are you a monkey?"

 

[Lordhippos]

Yep I can definitely see why it would need additional rewatches more than the others. We both picked up on the bouncing girl in the intro bit which is cool! I did notice the film posters for his other works towards the end as well.

There is a lot going on and I probably absorbed only some of it on this watch.

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

Tenet though is a bit too wtf for me, I don't think I'd get what was going on without really reading into things in a lot of detail, his previous films I'd agree I could get away with just watching it, and re-watching would provide further detail.

Not seen that yet so yeah very much going on the ones before heh.

Don't tell him about the ability to select the text and then use the quick action to Quote or Reply @Neil.T , that will blow his mind!

Hey man, I figured out the reply one a good while back I'll have you know, people these days... So rude! Heheh. But what is this quote thing you speak of, is it not just the same as reply?? Of course it makes sense to have two options to do the same thing! But seriously I haven't tried that yet and am guessing it's to move chats between threads? Ugh and who would now believe I used to be the tech/IT wizard as a kid knowing exactly how to get the VCR working... Clearly after the Intel Pentium processors just went over my head * sigh *

I'll come back to reading & commenting on the posts on Paprika later once I've re-watched it, probably tomorrow now.

 

[Lordhippos]

Reply just adds it directly to the reply bit, quote adds it to the multi quote thing

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

Reply just adds it directly to the reply bit, quote adds it to the multi quote thing

Oh man, there's a multi quote thing? I think tech dinosaurs like me need a user guide for this forum... Still haven't worked out what all the format symbols mean yet. Hey ho I'm looking at figuring out each one as a level up...

 

[ayase]

1. Millennium Actress
2. Perfect Blue
3. Paprika
4. Tokyo Godfathers

Beat me to it. It's a difficult call between MA and PB, but the two major things that elevate MA to the top spot for me are that fantastic combination of Kon's directing and Hirasawa's soundtrack, as well as its capacity to move me emotionally. Like others have already said, that final rocketship scene is just incredibly moving; I don't, I have to say, find it particularly sad. Just beautiful in its honesty. Like the end of Only Yesterday, it's one of those scenes that makes me well up no matter how many times I see it.

Also note that this in no way means I don't rate Paprika or Godfathers highly. I'd put every one of Kon's films high up on a list of films in general, not just anime, but that's just how much each one worked for me personally. Though I didn't really get much of a chance to partake in the viewing or comment while this simulwatch was ongoing, I've really enjoyed reading other people's thoughts on one of my favourite director's films, particularly those watching for the first time.

 

[Geriatric hedgehog]

Like others have already said, that final rocketship scene is just incredibly moving; I don't, I have to say, find it particularly sad. Just beautiful in its honesty. Like the end of Only Yesterday, it's one of those scenes that makes me well up no matter how many times I see it

Couldn't agree with you more there! And yeah even though putting the movies in a graded list serves a purpose of highlighting individual preferences within, in the pantheon of film in general they would all be very high up. Even when I put MA in @WMD's top 5 movies thread, my list was only representative of one movie per director otherwise it would be at risk of being a Kon-fest heh.

@Lordhippos I didn't get a chance to watch Paprika this time around but will try later sometime hopefully as my interest has definitely been piqued heh. Good point on how Inception is more direct in certain ways as I too found Paprika's dream states and worlds harder to decipher and follow heh.

 

[Neil.T]

A bit late chiming in here, but just one point about Tokyo Godfathers and a bit of trivia about Paprika.

The elephant in the room for me, and the reason why I personally prefer the two previous films, is that too much of this film is based on contrivances. From who they bumped into, to what they find, there are so many things that just work out, that it actually bugged me.

I honestly didn't mind that. To me, the film feels like a crazy, non-stop rollercoaster ride, and I find that the coincidences and random chance only add to that feeling and help keep everything in motion.


And as for Paprika, I was watching the director's commentary for it only a few weeks ago (on my old Sony Entertainment DVD; it's not included on Manga's BD). It features Kon and composer Susumu Hirasawa alongside the film's producer, and there's an interesting nugget of information about the chase sequence where Paprika changes form from a fairy to a mermaid to Pinocchio. It turns out that Hirasawa actually composed the music for that sequence in isolation, with no animation timing to work with.

When Kon was editing the visuals and music together, he unexpectedly found that a dramatic shift in the score meshed exactly with a dramatic part of the chase. Hirasawa puts this apparent coincidence down to having worked with Kon before and having a feel for his "musical tempo" in pacing a scene like that.

 

[Lordhippos]

No worries late entries to the discussion are fine

I think my problem with Tokyo Godfathers is more of a me thing than anything else, I just don't get on with that type of film where lots of lucky things stack up. I can kind of buy into a handful of coincidences occurring, but for them to occur one after another becomes a bit much for me.

At some point I need to re-watch these, but I'll let it settle for now and go to the next films to watch!