New Rebuild of Eva footage

[CitizenGeek]

But don't you think he loses some of his mysticism if he's on screen for too long? Hell in the manga he was there for longer and they had to turn him into a psycho who liked killing small animals.

But .... that doesn't mean he'll be like that in the anime at all. Yoshiyuki Sadamoto was responsible for the anime, Hideaki Anno is responsible for the anime.

For me, the appeal of Kaworu isn't his mysterious nature (which isn't actually that mysterious at all, really) - I think he's a cool character because he's so likable and unusual and the way he interacts with Shinji and his ideas on the human condition - so, if he got more screentime, I think that'd be awesome! ^_^

 

[Ark]

Two words.

James, Pokemon.

 

[Sy]

Personaly looking at him as a character he was a pretty run of the mill, we've seen this type many times before type personality(and design as well) like Ark has said. He was made interesting by his short and sudden appearance and served the story well.

I can't really see how bringing him in so early will benefit but we shall see. Maybe he won't have that much screen time and still portrayed as that question mark character.

 

[CitizenGeek]

Err, can I get some examples to back up this claim that Kaworu was a basic character? I know I haven't watched that much anime, but I'm pretty certain I've never, ever come across a character that is even remotely like Kaworu ^_^

Two words.

James, Pokemon.

???

Not quite sure what you mean there, but it would be rather silly if you were (even in a small way) comparing Kaworu to James.

 

[Ark]

Not quite sure what you mean there, but it would be rather silly if you were (even in a small way) comparing Kaworu to James.

In the pre-???? .... well the episodes before they go on the cruise liner that sinks certainly you could compare. Though obviously they're very different shows. The sexually ambigious philosophical male character is a very common archetype in anime.

My fear is that Karowu is going to be transformed from the memorable and mysterious character he was in the series to something very different.

My two main fears are that he's either gonna end up being like Quon from RahXephon (who goes around behaving strangely and spouting ambigious riddles none of which the other characters question) or like the villain from Ninja Scroll who's just gay and not much else.

 

[CitizenGeek]

The sexually ambigious philosophical male character is a very common archetype in anime.

But, describing Kaworu like that is a great over-simplification, I think. And if this archetype is so common, why has no one even given one example?

My fear is that Karowu is going to be transformed from the memorable and mysterious character he was in the series to something very different.

But, Kaworu wasn't actually as mysterious as everyone thinks. Most of what he's about is answered and he's not any more mysterious than Shinji or Rei.

villain from Ninja Scroll who's just gay and not much else.

Seriously, did you watch the same Kaworu that I watched or something? Because if you're comparing him to James from Pokémon and the gay villain in Ninja Scroll, I don't think we've been watching the same 13 minutes of Kaworu in ep 24!

 

[Ark]

But, describing Kaworu like that is a great over-simplification, I think. And if this archetype is so common, why has no one even given one example?

Well you said you hadn't seen that much anime so I wouldn't know where to start.

But, Kaworu wasn't actually as mysterious as everyone thinks. Most of what he's about is answered and he's not any more mysterious than Shinji or Rei.

Well I'd say he's equally mysterious as Rei (for obvious reasons) but he's certainly more mysterious than Shinji. What's mysterious about Shinji at all?

Seriously, did you watch the same Kaworu that I watched or something? Because if you're comparing him to James from Pokémon and the gay villain in Ninja Scroll, I don't think we've been watching the same 13 minutes of Kaworu in ep 24!

I'm not saying Karowu is exactly like them. I'm saying I don't want him to end up being so by spreading his screen time out.

 

[Sy]

I'm not saying Karowu is exactly like them. I'm saying I don't want him to end up being so by spreading his screen time out.

Exactly, it seems like it could easily happen.

 

[Ark]

I'm not saying Karowu is exactly like them. I'm saying I don't want him to end up being so by spreading his screen time out.

Exactly, it seems like it could easily happen.

Thinking back I'm not even sure why I bothered mentioning James or the Ninja. Just look at Karowu in the Iron Maiden/Angelic days Manga. He's the same as in the anime but just for longer and it does make a difference.

 

[CitizenGeek]

But, describing Kaworu like that is a great over-simplification, I think. And if this archetype is so common, why has no one even given one example?

Well you said you hadn't seen that much anime so I wouldn't know where to start.

You could still mention a character or two and what anime they've come from - but I just think you're imagining Kaworu being a bit of a cliché on the basis that it <i>seems</i> like he would be, but actually, he's not.

Just look at Karowu in the Iron Maiden/Angelic days Manga. He's the same as in the anime but just for longer and it does make a difference.

I have read 3 volumes of Angelic Days and Kaworu is barely like the character is in the anime in that manga. He's aggresively protective of Shinji, never speaks philosophically and is just generally not like anime Kaworu at all. Anyway, what in the heck makes you think they'd make Kaworu like he is in Angelic Days? Angelic Days is a spin-off manga, centred entirely around romance and set in a different dimension - it's a little silly to be worried about Angelic Days influencing RoE.

 

[Ark]

You could still mention a character or two and what anime they've come from - but I just think you're imagining Kaworu being a bit of a cliché on the basis that it <i>seems</i> like he would be, but actually, he's not.

Fine. The "D" guy from RahXephon, the student council head from FMP Fumoffu and Griffith from Berserk. Maybe DaveMustain could add some.

I have read 3 volumes of Angelic Days and Kaworu is barely like the character is in the anime in that manga. He's aggresively protective of Shinji, never speaks philosophically and is just generally not like anime Kaworu at all. Anyway, what in the heck makes you think they'd make Kaworu like he is in Angelic Days? Angelic Days is a spin-off manga, centred entirely around romance and set in a different dimension - it's a little silly to be worried about Angelic Days influencing RoE.

I remember Karouwu being quite philosophical in it. He says something about those who are different being persecuted at some point. Maybe he wasn't protective of Shinji in the anime because there were no girls to compete with for the few minutes he was on screen

 

[Sy]

I remember Karouwu being quite philosophical in it.

One of his first lines is..

"Throughout the ages, the vulgar masses have denigrated, even persecuted, that which they have failed to understad."

There's an expression i've heard used a few times when describing that type of character from various anime. 'Beware of the White Haired Pretty Boy'. The characters that fall under this are usually effeminate, designed to look handsome, have an eerie vibe, talk in philosophical riddles and of course have white or silverly hair.

 

[CitizenGeek]

I remember Karouwu being quite philosophical in it. He says something about those who are different being persecuted at some point. Maybe he wasn't protective of Shinji in the anime because there were no girls to compete with for the few minutes he was on screen

Now, that's just being a little too circumstantial, which is what all of your Kaworu argument basically is. As it stands, there is much more 'proof' that Kaworu will be an intersting and memorable character in RoE (if he does end up having a bigger role in RoE) because he was both interesting and memorable, by your own admission, in the series. He might have degenerated into cliché in Sadamoto's manga and Fumino Hayashi's manga, but neither of them have -any- involvement with the story of RoE.

Fine. The "D" guy from RahXephon, the student council head from FMP Fumoffu and Griffith from Berserk. Maybe DaveMustain could add some.

Like I said, if you want to over-simlify a character, then you'll easily be able to twist said character into some cliché.

One of his first lines is..

"Throughout the ages, the vulgar masses have denigrated, even persecuted, that which they have failed to understad."

You think that's philosophical? Really, that's just an observation or something, not even remotely philosophical IMO - especially when you compare it to the things he says in the anime.

There's an expression i've heard used a few times when describing that type of character from various anime. 'Beware of the White Haired Pretty Boy'. The characters that fall under this are usually effeminate, designed to look handsome, have an eerie vibe, talk in philosophical riddles and of course have white or silverly hair.

But, all of the characters in Eva are good looking, so it's unreasonable to single Kaworu out as being clichéd for that exact reason. I never got an eerie vibe from Kaworu, he was very likable.

Heh, never thought I'd be debating Kaworu - but he really is one of my favorite characters in Eva ^_^

 

[Sy]

You think that's philosophical? Really, that's just an observation or something, not even remotely philosophical IMO - especially when you compare it to the things he says in the anime.

Well he does pretty much say it out of nowhere.

But, all of the characters in Eva are good looking

Ha, well that's your opinion. What I meant was that he was designed to look attractive and rather feminine.

I never got an eerie vibe from Kaworu, he was very likable.

Really? He turns up out of nowhere whistling classical music whilst looking at the destruction caused by the angels.

he was both interesting and memorable, by your own admission, in the series.

Like we said before, he was interesting because of his sudden and brief appearance in the series and his equally abrupt exit with questions left unanswered. Left on his own merits as a character he is pretty uninteresting and a stereotype but within the contect of the story and the way it was presented it worked. I don't really see how they could make it as effective by padding his role in the story out but like I said before we shall see.

 

[CitizenGeek]

You think that's philosophical? Really, that's just an observation or something, not even remotely philosophical IMO - especially when you compare it to the things he says in the anime.

Well he does pretty much say it out of nowhere.

Doesn't really make it philosophical, does it? And I'm almost certain he never says anything like that again in Angelic Days, anyway.

Ha, well that's your opinion. What I meant was that he was designed to look attractive and rather feminine.

No, it's not really my 'opinion' - all of the central characters in Eva are good looking by most people's standards, I would think.

Really? He turns up out of nowhere whistling classical music whilst looking at the destruction caused by the angels.

Yes, there's something about the way he talks, and what he talks about that makes him likable even when he does something strange like that. In fact, I loved his introduction!

Like we said before, he was interesting because of his sudden and brief appearance in the series and his equally abrupt exit with questions left unanswered. Left on his own merits as a character he is pretty uninteresting and a stereotype but within the contect of the story and the way it was presented it worked. I don't really see how they could make it as effective by padding his role in the story out but like I said before we shall see.

Isn't such a character (mysterious and enters the show as quickly as he leave it) a cliché too? I've only watched 3 eps of RahXephon and there's already been one such character, I could probably find such a character in most of the shows I've watched.

 

[Sy]

I don't think we're going to agree on this one so i'm just gonna leave it there rather than going around in circles.

 

[Outlawstar]

I think we need to agree to disagree here. *flinches*

 

[CitizenGeek]

I don't think we're going to agree on this one so i'm just gonna leave it there rather than going around in circles.

Good idea! ^_^ But, once RoE is out, you'll see how awesome Kaworu is! 8D

 

[Ark]

I'll agree to leave it on these two points since this is a pretty non-issue.

Seemingly small differences can potentially become huge differences like the difference between a Chimpanzee and a human being. I strongly agree with WTFDM's point that

Like we said before, he was interesting because of his sudden and brief appearance in the series and his equally abrupt exit with questions left unanswered. Left on his own merits as a character he is pretty uninteresting and a stereotype but within the contect of the story and the way it was presented it worked. I don't really see how they could make it as effective by padding his role in the story out but like I said before we shall see.

Secondly you have to ask yourself this. Do you really want to see Mr Nagisa at Shinji's school flirting with the boys, listening to his favourite Wagner pieces while quoting Arthur f%cking Shopenhauer with a rose in his hand?

I know I don't.

 

[CitizenGeek]

Secondly you have to ask yourself this. Do you really want to see Mr Nagisa at Shinji's school flirting with the boys, listening to his favourite Wagner pieces while quoting Arthur f%cking Shopenhauer with a rose in his hand?

I know I don't.

No, neither do I. But, nothing at all, either in the original anime or in promotional releases about RoE have even hinted that Kaworu would be anything like that in RoE. In fact, if you're reason for hatin' on Kaworu in RoE is what you just said, then I think that's a bit ridiculous - there's pretty much no basis for such an argument.