Moe

Moe ?

  • Burning Passion

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Kill it with fire

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Take it or leave it, I don't care

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
H

hopeful_monster

Thousand Master
Moe is an section of animé that is insanely popular in Japan, yet it's reception in the rest of the world is decidedly mixed.
What is it? No one really knows, or more precisely no one can really agree what Moe means, cuteness is definitely a factor, as is a desire to protect, but it's not limited to the completely helpless. The best definition i can come up with of a moe character is
a character who creates a desire to protect and nurture from the viewer in a non sexual way.
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Something akin to a male maternal feeling. Moe characters can be found in almost any genre of anime (eg Rei and Asuka form Eva could be considered Moe) but more recently there has been a shift towards anime which tries to create these characters in a stand alone sense without any other plot around it.
 
What spurred this topic, I do wonder.

I chose kill it with fire because with most moe, not all mind, come the helpless females and I just can't bare them. I don't mind it as an aesthetic or for comical effect (i.e. I like Haruhi and LS) but I can't watch most. I literally can't.
 
To me it just looks like cute girls doing cute things with no plot and no real point. Also I'm fed up with all the pink girlyness and all the boobs!!! And all the underwear!!!

I think someone said Toradora is moe but I loved that show so much! So I guess it depends on the show I just don't think there should be so much of it. We need more amazing shows that kick ass!!!

I think I heard someone said moe is how a charater looks and acts! I'm not an expert on the subject though. Hope that made some sense.
 
As I said earlier basically all anime wether intentional or not will be moe to someone. "Moe" anime, as missused, refers things that generate it intentionaly in preference to having narative or character development. Those can be damaging in terms of removing creativity from the industry and it ending up introverted.
 
The concept itself is fine (characters such as Keroro and Giroro from Keroro Gunsou are very moe, and yet it's not their single defining characteristic, nor does it make me want to buy suspicious hug pillows featuring their little bobbleheaded bodies).

I don't like it when it obviously becomes contrived and the main reason a particular show exists, particularly when it's useless, simpering bishoujo (useless, simpering bishounen are just as bad, just much less common in mainstream anime).

I haven't answered the poll because I don't think the underlying feeling is wrong at all. Only the tedious milking of it to sell more character goods and avoid having to write an actual story gets me on edge.

R
 
Yeah, I'm pretty much with Rui and Reaper on this one. I've heard it argued that one can have a 'moe' feeling from most any series; it doesn't necessarily need to be related to any particular character type or genre. I forget which podcast it was on, but I remember someone suggesting that you could be moe for Ken from Fist of the North Star simply because he is the driving emotional force behind the story.

As for whether producing series to actively encourage the 'moe' response is a good thing or a bad thing, I think Daryl Surat of AWO summed it up pretty well when he exclaimed that "Moe is the Sniper". The gist of his argument being that we shouldn't get rid of moe shows, so long as they don't account for everything being produced. Much in the same way that you can't make an effective TF2 team if everyone plays the same character class - it needs to be balanced to make it work.



Okay, partly I did just want an excuse to say "Moe is the Sniper" here. It amused me.
 
Not sure if I like it or not as the concept confuses me a bit. BUT after attempting to watch Sister Princess the other day and being BORED OUT OF MY SKULL (dropped at 12/24), KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!
 
Kill it with fire. Cuteness be damned. Strong, independent female characters FTW.

To elaborate, I think having the odd 'moe' character in a show is okay (not every woman is as kick-ass awesome as Motoko Kusanagi, after all) especially when it's emphasised how pathetic they are for comedy purposes (see Matsuri from Strawberry Marshmallow) but I do think the appetite for moe is a particularly backwards, unrealistic and harks back to a time when women were seen as weak, incapable, subservient things to be protected (and controlled) by men. And that's not just an insult to women, it creates fantasies of how women should behave in the minds of some men which can then never be fulfilled - something potentially emotionally damaging to them as well.

I suppose to me, after the trend towards strong female characters over the past few decades, it just seems like moe has thrown the whole thing into reverse. More Motokos, Revys, Kurau Amamis, Leona Ozakis, Noa Izumis, Haman Khans, Lums, Keis and Yuris please.
 
I have recently adopted the view that moe is best understood as a state of mind, and that declaring an anime or character to be moe ought be construed as attributing to them a disposition to cause certain audiences to entertain the state of mind in question.
Associated to this are the following three issues:

1) The matter of how this "protective" state of mind manifests, and the degree to which it is differentiable from other attitudes, along with;
2) Ethical implications, as ayase mentions, plus;
3) The fact that non-moe fans find their sector of the market under pressure.

Each one a valid issue, and each one worthy of further discourse. I work under the assumption that this thread exists to summarise forum opinion however, and shall thus avoid these for the time being. For the matter at hand I shall simply say the following: I vote in favour.
 
The moe reaction is love in the platonic sensetowards a strictly 2d chara. This fits the correct use perfectly.
Chara do not have to poses all the aspects required for a full character. e.g. Hatsune Miku who is only an image off the package of a piece of computer software. It's the fact they can be so loosly defined that causes the problem.

In short moe is a non issue it's chara that are. Particularly ones that have no character or a bad sterotype. Also the fact that chara no longer entail the show to have a narative.
 
Moé is the cancer that's partially killing anime, in my view point anyway. In some ways I kind of like it...


Paz_def_up2_fix_m.jpg


I feel like a loser for falling for its charm. Jesus Christ.

-Downloads Paz's theme-
 
Moe really isn't my thing when it comes to shows which are quite literally fuelled by it. I wouldn't mind it so much if the trend didn't seem to be flooding recent anime with teary eyed school girls who oh-so-desperately need a big man to protect them.

ayase said:
Kill it with fire. Cuteness be damned. Strong, independent female characters FTW.
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Hell yes. I'll always have more respect for shows that manage to have well rounded female characters with a set of emotions ranging beyond deliriously happy and bawling their eyes out sadness.

I don't mind it in small doses, just when 8/10 anime women seem to have been written and drawn with the sole intention of fufilling otaku moe fantasies it wears pretty thin. My problem with it is that it's used disproportionately in recent anime.
 
Lupus said:
Paz_def_up2_fix_m.jpg

-Downloads Paz's theme-
Click to expand...
Ugh Uncanny valley

Professor Irony said:
As for whether producing series to actively encourage the 'moe' response is a good thing or a bad thing, I think Daryl Surat of AWO summed it up pretty well when he exclaimed that "Moe is the Sniper". The gist of his argument being that we shouldn't get rid of moe shows, so long as they don't account for everything being produced. Much in the same way that you can't make an effective TF2 team if everyone plays the same character class - it needs to be balanced to make it work.

Okay, partly I did just want an excuse to say "Moe is the Sniper" here. It amused me.
Click to expand...
Always though of Moe more of like the spy, sapping your favourite series, pretending to be your friend then stabbing you in the back, changing its face but underneath remaining the same.

To be honest the reasons I don't like moe shows is because it is an evolution or extension of the Harem genre. Lots of girls with often only one defining feature for the viewer to choose from. Only difference is there isn't a male to dither on screen like a jellyfish on the beach.

The other thing that irritates me is the whole joke about it being non sexual. RULE 34
 
Like most topics and genres, too much of something is never a good thing. The whole basis of "too much fan-service" was also an argument at one time, so as a comunity, we abviously dont like to be bombarded with one style or trait.

But I'll borrow the Harem ideal from Hopeful to explain something else. Moe can be considered one of the "choices" that make up the genre, just as much as the Tomboy, the Tease, the childhood friend etc. It is simply something needed to keep the show alive.

Anime needs to have that kind of range at a balanced rate. If something were to spike in popularity, like romance, then the supply/demand scale will open the floodgates for producers to make more shows based on it. This is when it either becomes a fad, of which things are made at one time for competition over that small timeframe when the popularity's highest and then they change direction, or iconic, where the genre is milked for everything it's got until it becomes distasteful.

Moe as a character trait isn't my favourite, but it's not something I get too wound up seeing. If I watch too many action gals in lots of shows, I may start to think extreme body-builder women are sexy... I pray that doesn't happen. So it's good to see a change, to see that women dont have to be independant and brutal (or curvy) if they can't/dont want to be.

To conclude - I dont hate the genre or the character trait immensely. It's a pain if it's like anything else and turns overkill.
So I'll choose the "take it/leave it" option.
 
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