Is it ok for a boy to like girly anime?
- Thread starter Robbeech90
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xxXXmoomooXXxx
School Idol
It's okay I think ^_^ . I'm a girl and my favourite type of anime's Shonen with a heck louds a' fights!!
So we're (or just me if I'm the only one who's baffled) all clued up on exactly what you mean by 'moe', could you explain your exact definition of the term please, CitizenGeek?
I've always wondered what the term 'moe' means in general discussions like this...
Is that what you mean? Because that would imply you're talking about anime that include any kind of fetish... so basically any anime where a character has a fetish for something... I mean, even Naruto has a fetish for being Hokage, so is that a 'moe' anime?
I think not. The people who have written the Wikipedia entries for 'moe' and 'moe anthropomorphism' seem to have contradicted themselves and tried to hopelessly come up with a meaning for what 'moe' should mean in otaku culture... "Giving human-like qualites to non-human objects"... so that pretty much covers every single part of anime doesn't it, because anime isn't human...
Please help me for your meanings CitizenGeek-tan.
I've always wondered what the term 'moe' means in general discussions like this...
Wikipedia said:
Is that what you mean? Because that would imply you're talking about anime that include any kind of fetish... so basically any anime where a character has a fetish for something... I mean, even Naruto has a fetish for being Hokage, so is that a 'moe' anime?
I think not. The people who have written the Wikipedia entries for 'moe' and 'moe anthropomorphism' seem to have contradicted themselves and tried to hopelessly come up with a meaning for what 'moe' should mean in otaku culture... "Giving human-like qualites to non-human objects"... so that pretty much covers every single part of anime doesn't it, because anime isn't human...
Please help me for your meanings CitizenGeek-tan.
I don't like obviously intentional moe myself, however I don't think it's sweepingly wrong. Characters set up to deliberately appeal for moe reasons give me the heebie jeebies but not so far as shota/loli things which I would say I actually hate.
Naruto in the series is not moe and doesn't have hokage-moe (perhaps in some colourful doujinshi). But some people do consider him moe (*cough* crazy people *cough*) to them. That doesn't bug me. Characters who, to use a neutral, parody example, act like Asahina Mikuru do irritate me as they're deliberately flat and set up to be desirable for being naiive/useless. Mikuru doesn't irritate me particularly by the way as I see her as a parody of the archetype.
Loli takes it a step way across the line though. "Planted" moe is just something I don't want in my shows but if other people enjoy it that's their choice. Though I have met some fans who think that real girls should act like a moe idol which isn't pleasant when you're their target, at all. Fortunately most people have brains.
To each his own.
R
Naruto in the series is not moe and doesn't have hokage-moe (perhaps in some colourful doujinshi). But some people do consider him moe (*cough* crazy people *cough*) to them. That doesn't bug me. Characters who, to use a neutral, parody example, act like Asahina Mikuru do irritate me as they're deliberately flat and set up to be desirable for being naiive/useless. Mikuru doesn't irritate me particularly by the way as I see her as a parody of the archetype.
Loli takes it a step way across the line though. "Planted" moe is just something I don't want in my shows but if other people enjoy it that's their choice. Though I have met some fans who think that real girls should act like a moe idol which isn't pleasant when you're their target, at all. Fortunately most people have brains.
To each his own.
R
Rui said:
It's still debatable, depending on how you understand the term 'moe'...
Naruto has a deep passion for being hokage, so that could be defined as him having a hokage moe, and seriously I wouldn't say that's broadening the definition to a point where it becomes stupid.
I used the term 'fetish' above, which may be a little too broad of a definition, but again that word has a broad meaning as well apart from the general understanding about it being something sexual.
Rui said:
i know exactly what you mean, but alot of people i know who are like that, think like that because they don't believe that they are worth human relationships.
To them Moe characters are, in their phycology, as close to being with a "real" female as possible.
If you think about it realistically, i'm pretty sure i read something in a paper once 7% of the people in the UK will never find love, and those who do a further 15% marry from the fear of being alone.
The fact that so many anime/game/tv/comic characters are loved so much by people most really refer to as "geeks" is because they personally feel, they are 1 of those 21% who will never find true happiness.
just my 2 cents
xxXXmoomooXXxx
School Idol
Moe dosen't always have to be assoiated with anime or otaku
xxXXmoomooXXxx
School Idol
That must be a pain in the bum >.>
I think I finally found a page that defines it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_drawing
So that would cover a broad amount of characters actually. I've seen arguments on here when CG has said the likes of Kanon/Clannad/etc, are moe and he's been met with people saying it's absolutley not... But upon finding this I think I'd define a hell of a lot of characters from those anime as moe, just not the anime itself being defined as 'moe', because that's impossible..
I don't see why anyone would think that is wrong... It's just a drawing style. If it goes onto sexualising small girls though, then that's not moe. Small girls drawn in the moe style though, what's wrong with that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_drawing
Wikipedia said:
So that would cover a broad amount of characters actually. I've seen arguments on here when CG has said the likes of Kanon/Clannad/etc, are moe and he's been met with people saying it's absolutley not... But upon finding this I think I'd define a hell of a lot of characters from those anime as moe, just not the anime itself being defined as 'moe', because that's impossible..
I don't see why anyone would think that is wrong... It's just a drawing style. If it goes onto sexualising small girls though, then that's not moe. Small girls drawn in the moe style though, what's wrong with that?
Ryo, that's a good point. I always figured I'd be alone as a geek but I'm extremely strong willed so never got to a stage where I wanted to console myself with some moe. I think a lot of the people I know who get too absorbed in it tend to drive potential mates off though by expecting them to act a certain way. That's not really a general moe fan thing though, just a sort of disconnected geek thing which shares some overlap. I have no problem with moe fans who also have their heads screwed on properly 
Melonpan, I wouldn't say Naruto has hokage-moe. It doesn't quite mean the same thing to me. For one thing I'd associate it on some level with the actual Hokage rather than the position alone if it was said like that and that's a little creepy he wants to be the hokage but it doesn't give him warm, fuzzy feelings at all.
I'm sure he finds Sakura moe though on a few occasions. None spring to mind because I hate the main characters despite liking the series.
And that crazy girl from Haunted Junction had a full blown shotacon if I recall correctly...oh and then there was the guy from Excel Saga...both of those were so wrong but successfully played for laughs despite the creepiness of their fetishes.
R
Melonpan, I wouldn't say Naruto has hokage-moe. It doesn't quite mean the same thing to me. For one thing I'd associate it on some level with the actual Hokage rather than the position alone if it was said like that and that's a little creepy
he wants to be the hokage but it doesn't give him warm, fuzzy feelings at all.I'm sure he finds Sakura moe though on a few occasions. None spring to mind because I hate the main characters despite liking the series.
And that crazy girl from Haunted Junction had a full blown shotacon if I recall correctly...oh and then there was the guy from Excel Saga...both of those were so wrong but successfully played for laughs despite the creepiness of their fetishes.
R
The drawing thing is just an article on drawing style though. Most "intentionally moe" characters look like that because it's cute and currently fashionable which appeals to bishoujo consumers, but plenty don't (and not all moe is bishoujo - puppies can be moe). The authour of Genshiken tongue-in-cheek mentions that Madarame is a moe character in one of the afterwords IIRC and he most certainly does not conform to that style
To a certain type of reader though, Madarame would invoke those "warm, fuzzy feelings" (my best attempt to capture the heart of moe in English right now) and make people want to root for him and protect him. So he qualifies but unlike certain cute characters, there's a lot more to him than that.
Then there's stuff like Haruhi and Galaxy Angel which lampoons the stylings on numerous occasions and despite conforming to the "moe" drawing in that article (along with 99% of other anime aimed at men in the last 15 years) don't bug me at all as they're just deliberately silly.
R
To a certain type of reader though, Madarame would invoke those "warm, fuzzy feelings" (my best attempt to capture the heart of moe in English right now) and make people want to root for him and protect him. So he qualifies but unlike certain cute characters, there's a lot more to him than that.
Then there's stuff like Haruhi and Galaxy Angel which lampoons the stylings on numerous occasions and despite conforming to the "moe" drawing in that article (along with 99% of other anime aimed at men in the last 15 years) don't bug me at all as they're just deliberately silly.
R
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
I really don't like the way people tap dance around the moe thing and distract the issue by using the old reliable "but if you can't define moe, then you're point fails".
Ryo Chan in particular obviously understands what I mean by moe, otherwise how could he defend it like he does? Same goes for
Moe, as a 'genre', is a series in which female characters are deliberately (and glaringly obviously) engineered to appeal to the unsavoury fetishes of certain otaku. These unsavoury fetishes generally include subservience to men, outrageously youthful appearances and brainless "cuteness". Typically, the aim of this cuteness is to build the character up as someone who the viewer (almost always a single male) will want to protect. It's wrong on so many levels. It's my opinion that moe is not entertaining, but it's significantly more than just my opinion that it's ethically disgusting (I'm pretty sure the general consenus of a society would be that it's wrong to sexualise and fetishise pre-pubescent girls, too). Examples of this are Kodomo no Jikan, Clannad, Kanon, Moon Phase, Nymphet, Moetan, Minami-ke and smaller doses of moe have squirmed into other, generally non-moe series, too.
There; that's what I know moe as a (sort of) genre to be. And it's bad, really bad and it's tragic that it's becoming so popular.
And that's why they've just spent two pages discussing them?
Ryo Chan in particular obviously understands what I mean by moe, otherwise how could he defend it like he does? Same goes for
Moe, as a 'genre', is a series in which female characters are deliberately (and glaringly obviously) engineered to appeal to the unsavoury fetishes of certain otaku. These unsavoury fetishes generally include subservience to men, outrageously youthful appearances and brainless "cuteness". Typically, the aim of this cuteness is to build the character up as someone who the viewer (almost always a single male) will want to protect. It's wrong on so many levels. It's my opinion that moe is not entertaining, but it's significantly more than just my opinion that it's ethically disgusting (I'm pretty sure the general consenus of a society would be that it's wrong to sexualise and fetishise pre-pubescent girls, too). Examples of this are Kodomo no Jikan, Clannad, Kanon, Moon Phase, Nymphet, Moetan, Minami-ke and smaller doses of moe have squirmed into other, generally non-moe series, too.
There; that's what I know moe as a (sort of) genre to be. And it's bad, really bad and it's tragic that it's becoming so popular.
Spyro201 said:
And that's why they've just spent two pages discussing them?
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
Spyro201 said:
Aww, poor Spyro. Are you upset that I didn't agree with you in a few threads? It'll be okay, you'll get over it ;]
CitizenGeek said:
If we're going by this argument, then would that mean anyone who watches series like Cardcaptor Sakura is indulging in moe, as Sakura as a character is cute and you want her to be protected?
I personally have had this argument with CG before, and its impossible to generalise series before you've seen them all. If we're going by the standards that its dangerous for moe to be around because of the way it shows people to treat others, or the whole perverse aspect, then can we not say that shows like Gantz glamorise murder? It's the same as saying that people kill others because of violent video games - the basic fact is that a person must have some quality in them initially which would make them do so. Something may act as a stimulus to trigger this, but the quality must already be present.
It is entirely possible to watch a series defined as "moe" and not have some sick sexual urge towards the characters. I enjoy series like AIR, but I have no desire to bone Misuzu.