How to avoid being ripped off by dodgy traders at the Expo

Been keeping an eye on this but it's an interesting debate and so far not too flamey...

Personally I'm a lot more opposed to the obvious fake stuff at Expo than the couple of people who sell R1s; both are illegal as the OP has stated but one also raises an enormous red flag on my own moral guidelines whereas the other doesn't. As an addicted anime fan I rely on imports to feed my habit beyond our country's limited release schedule, so I am inclined to turn my gaze the other way when it comes to legitimate but locally unlawful importers.

I think the OP is entitled to dislike the R1 import resellers; opinions are opinions and he/she has already explained that they feel it may lead to buyer confusion etc, which I don't usually think about but can visualise, especially as a lot of Expo visitors are young. On the flip side, the R1 importers do fill a niche for a lot of us here. When I was younger and didn't have a credit card I relied on that kind of business to see VHS anime that wasn't available over here in a way which fed the original creators money so I'm sympathetic to their intentions. Having met some of the sellers in person I also know that they are well-meaning people.

It's a shame that the existence of the BBFC has become a double edged sword at best; they check that the content is legal but the fees and mandatory nature of the system mean that merely by existing they block a lot of less profitable series from ever being considered for submission as the tiny potential profits will be cut too much. It would be interesting if the laws were reviewed now that the world is getting smaller and people can buy from abroad more easily than ever before, not to mention view online content from across the world instantly.

Back to Expo, the bootleg stuff was getting crazy last time I was there; it was almost impossible to find legitimate products amongst all of the clones aside from at the handful of proper corporate booths run by licensors. It has definitely become worse over time. I saw the same bootleg artbooks at several different stalls before I stopped even bothering to look at merchandise on my last visit. It's a shame that, as with many of the large media sellers online, companies don't even tend to question the legitimacy of their sellers until complaints are made by the copyright holders. It's one of a few factors which really turn me off about the whole event.

R
 
The only thing that annoys me about this thread is not the view that R1 and illigal in this country, but that OP keeps saying that they are fake dvds and they are dodgy dealers.

To me, fake dvds are the bootleg stuf you find on ebay. The dvds are illigal but by no means fake. Your paying your cah out for the real deal. I don't think they are dodgy either as they are legit.

I will continueo buy R1s occasionly for the shows I know that will never be licesed over here but other stuff eg Hetalia, I'l wait on because I know it will come out here and would rather have something that would work on all my dvd players.
 
No idioteva you have misread what I wrote.

I have not said that R1 DVDs are all fake. As far as I am aware most if not all of the R1 DVDs that have been sold at previous Expos were the proper US releases.

Make the distinction here between those, and the kind of things like counterfeit One Piece watches, plushies, posters, statues, messenger bags, hats, and so on.

I'm going to repeat myself again. This thread is about the MCM London Expo and the things that have been sold there in the past and which might be sold there in the future. It's giving people a heads up so they can look after themselves and others and avoid being ripped off. My OP gives tips. I had expected that people here would be savvy enough to be able to distinguish between the tips they might want to follow and those they might not. I was clearly wrong, since most people here seem entirely fixated on flogging their own personal 'I hate censorship' hobbyhorse which is of no interest or relevance to me or this thread. So, if you don't want to report the sale of R1 DVDs if you see them on sale at future Expos, don't do so. No-one will care if you don't, least of all me. I've given the option because I am being fair and evenhanded to everyone. Some people may want to report them, if they do it is their choice. Just as it is yours to bawwwww about things when there is no need to.

PS. I had a good laugh at the poor attempts at flamebait trolling earlier in the thread. Try harder guys, you might win that internet argument that you are having only with yourselves. ;)

\o.
 
Is that you, Project-2501? It is you, isn't it?

(If not, I apologize, but the two of you would most assuredly get on like a house on fire.)

Also, it would be appreciated if you could respond to the point Just Passing Through made on the previous page. Assuming that his interpretation of the law is correct and that it's not a crime to be selling official uncertified DVDs in this manner (and the continued existence of UK-based importers operating via mail order and conventions suggests that even if it is, it's not a high priority for the authorities), I don't see what the problem there is.

Consumers buying R1 discs without being aware that they may not be able to play them is a fair point. But I would expect the vendors to make this clear at the point of sale, or at least have notices on view, like they do on their websites. If not, that's an issue. Adult material is another one. Having never been to an Expo or convention I was not aware that this material was available, but certainly some of it could potentially be illegal to possess.
 
I don't think anyone was trollbaiting, they were all just giving your opinions the two fingers. At the end of the day people who frequent this forum already know how to distinguish between real and fake as well as R1's and R2's. Your thread was a waste of space and is only being used to vent about laws in place.

If anyone buys a fake and gets ripped off then I can only it is their fault. Only common sense is needed when purchasing stuff. If they are at some vender who is selling lots of plushies and they fail to spot that they are shifty or that none of the merchandise have labels then what can you do? You can try and tell them but people know best, always know more than you.

When it comes to DVD's then they should know that anime is a small market and what does get released is quite expensive. So if something is too good to be true then it probably is. R1 imports being sold at the expo are really expensive, your average buyer will turn their nose up at the price tag. Only your more hardcore buyers will spend silly prices and even then they know the consequences of buying them.

The vast majority of expo goers stream illegally instead of buying. Tony from MVM has mentioned many times that even though 40,000+ people goes through the doors he may sell only a handful of his DVD's saying that people tell him that they can get it for free online.

Those of us here in this very forum aren't in that vast majority. We use legal sources to stream anime, we buy what gets released here and we buy what we don't from America if it legally gets released there. We appreciate the concern but it isn't needed here. We know what we should and should not buy.
 
fabricatedlunatic said:
Also, it would be appreciated if you could respond to the point Just Passing Through made
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Apology accepted. :)

The sale of R1 DVDs at the Expo is illegal. I've already covered it in previous posts.

I should point out that even though most everyone here has been assuming that I have just talking about anime DVDs I have seen a variety of live action American and European made R1 film DVDs at previous Expos that I can assure you were not the kind of thing that gets past the BBFC uncut and in some cases at all. I recognise that some people might want to report that kind of thing which is why I have provided information for them in the OP. Again, to repeat myself, others won't and I don't much care either way. The thread is informational. Take from it what you want.
 
Mangoanimuman said:
The sale of R1 DVDs at the Expo is illegal. I've already covered it in previous posts.
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See, this is my problem. I get the fact that you're trying to make sure people make informed decisions about what they buy at the expo, albeit with your own decidedly opinionated slant against everything even the slightest bit grey in the eyes of the law. And that's just it: the stuck record you're playing which seems to be titled "But It's Illegal!"

Nobody else cares that the sale of R1 DVDs in the UK is illegal. Because it's a bad law. Money from the sale of those DVDs goes to the creators just as it would if you bought an R2 DVD. The only reason it's illegal is the BBFC, hence mine and others' comments about censorship. The two things are inextricably linked; if there was no BBFC, the sale of R1 DVDs would not be illegal. What I think you'll find is baffling to us is why you or anyone else would want to report people for this.
 
ayase said:
I get the fact that you're trying to make sure people make informed decisions about what they buy at the expo.
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Great. Stop there. That's all there is to it.

ayase said:
Nobody else cares that the sale of R1 DVDs in the UK is illegal.
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Yesterday you were trying to berate me for just having appeared on the forum. Now you not only expect me to know the opinions of everyone who uses the forum, but you are also speaking for all of them. That's the source of your problem. I am not assuming to know what everyone thinks. Nor am I presuming to speak for all of them. I'm not that arrogant. I've just given information evenhandly so people can take what they want from it. Problem solved.
 
I'm not berating you for being new. I do however think it's a bit naive to make your first few posts on a forum from (what seems like) a bit of a moral / legal high-horse.

I freely admit that I can on occasion be both presumptuous and arrogant (traits I apologise for, but have nonetheless) though if others disagree with what I've said they're certainly free to call me out on it.
 
ayase said:
and the only thing preventing you is the BBFC. It's high time we got rid of this ****, no-one should have the right to tell other people what they can and can't see. Are all men equal? Or are some better than others? Because that's what the existence of the BBFC says.
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Actually its not the BBFC stopping you, its the video recordings act. The BBFC just do as required by the VRA.

Worth having a read of this:
http://www.animeuknews.net/article/63/a ... rtoons-act

The BBFC does have a use at the moment as their expemption from the 'dangerous cartoons act' means you won't ever get into trouble for owning rated DVDs.

Whats quite interesting is that no-one has mentioned the hentai/dojin stands. Something you could now get arrested for buying and end up on the sex offenders register.

People have been selling R1 DVDs in th UK for years. Its nothing new and as long as they are not importing thousands of discs the authorities turn a blind eye. UP1 won't bring R1s of anime that are licensed in the UK to the expo. They are only there selling stuff that none of the UK anime distros have licensed. Even if the distro isn't actually selling it on the day.

fabricatedlunatic said:
Is that you, Project-2501? It is you, isn't it?

(If not, I apologize, but the two of you would most assuredly get on like a house on fire.)
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Does his username look like mine? ;) And I doubt we would.
 
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how does one spot a fake? Other than applying that old adage "If it seems too good to be true...".
 
Project-2501 said:
ayase said:
and the only thing preventing you is the BBFC. It's high time we got rid of this ****, no-one should have the right to tell other people what they can and can't see. Are all men equal? Or are some better than others? Because that's what the existence of the BBFC says.
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Actually its not the BBFC stopping you, its the video recordings act. The BBFC just do as required by the VRA.
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As the old saying goes "It's all the same ****." A piece of paper can't push people around; it needs enforcers. The VRA wouldn't mean anything without the BBFC. If your argument is that we should be gunning for the law itself rather than the enforcers then I understand that, but I wouldn't have a clue about how to mount a legal challenge against them.

Personally I'd like to see the system broken by the lifting of trade barriers and import tariffs. If there was no tax on importing goods, the VRA and BBFC would have to be scrapped as otherwise video releasing companies would just move abroad and not release here at all. Given that the world is getting smaller (not to mention the fact that morality usually has a negative impact on profitability) things like the VRA / BBFC have to fall by the wayside at some point.
 
Shiro Inu said:
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how does one spot a fake? Other than applying that old adage "If it seems too good to be true...".
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Look at the packaging often the sleeve looks scanned. Next if it says region 0 that is another tell tale sign. If a 26 episode series is spread over 1 or 2 discs then it is definite fake. Then finally the price.
 
They'd just have picked someone else. It was simple for the Government to use the BBFC as the movie industry had voluntarily been using them for many years prior to the requirement for all films to be classified. Might as well just add videos to the list.

Write to your MP, start a petition, try 'your freedom'. I'm sure many have tried, all have failed. The curtain twitchers and 'oh noes, peados' types like the status quo.

As for money, Andrew seems to think its no hardship going to the BBFC twice with Durarara. Go figure.
</tangent>

Shiro Inu, poor packaging, spelling mistakes, shoddy quality. Price is not a good indicator as some of the traders are out to milk the crowd for all they can get.

stuart-says-yes said:
Surely when there brought into the country there checked, to see what kind of goods they are?
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Nope, otherwise customs would have kept them. Importing such images has actually always been illegal. Customs only checks a teeny tiny fraction of packages.

stuart-says-yes said:
Remember last year when they were switching over to pegi ratings for games? they found out in the 25 years they had been around, the ratings the BBFC had handed out were not legal and invalid?
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The BBFC ratings were not in question, it was the VRA itself that was in displute.
 
Durial666 said:
Shiro Inu said:
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how does one spot a fake? Other than applying that old adage "If it seems too good to be true...".
Click to expand...

Look at the packaging often the sleeve looks scanned. Next if it says region 0 that is another tell tale sign. If a 26 episode series is spread over 1 or 2 discs then it is definite fake. Then finally the price.
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Sorry, it was fake merchandise I wanted to know how to spot.
 
stuart-says-yes said:
Also I doubt this law has even been put to use yet, why start now, I mean I've looked at a few questionable images and you don't see me with an upcoming court case, do ya? I doubt I am the only one who's looked at a few questionable images in the past months.
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You don't need to worry, at least not yet. The recently passed law only applies to England, Wales, and Northern Ireland.
 
Mangoanimuman said:
It's illegal.

All DVDs sold in the UK have to have the BBFC mark (BBFC age rating) to show they have been through the certification process. R1 DVDs don't have one for obvious reasons.

Aside from some people not owning multi-region DVD players, or not being able to figure out how to make their machine into a multi-region player, the content of some R1 DVDs breaks UK law in areas such as obscenity and so on. Being in possession of such material can be an offence in itself so even just buying them can put you at risk of very severe legal consequences if you happen to buy the 'wrong' thing. So apart from it being illegal to sell R1 DVDs here, it's better for the community if individuals who want uncensored stuff and know what to avoid take the responsibility for importing what they want themselves.
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And your point being?

Frankly, to be honest, I couldn't give a damn if I'm breaking the law by owning R1 DVD's from America! In fact, the majority of my Anime DVD Collection are R1's including my St Seiya Box Set 1 which is signed by the English dub actor for Ikki/Phoenix Saint, Fullemetal Alchemist Movie Special Edition which is signed by the likes of Mike McFarland, Vic Mignogna, Laura Bailey and Colleen Clinkenbeard, my Captain Tylor OVA Box Set, The World of Narue Collector's Edition, my Gravion Zwei DVD's with Artbox and Ai Yori Enishi with the Artbox and special Figurines and my Limited Edition Cutey Honey live-action movie with Lunchbox and keychain.

So you're basically saying that a lot of the sellers at MCM Expo who sell R1 DVD's should stop selling them at events like Expo because you have a problem with R1 DVD's being sold here uncertified? Thanks but no thanks! I (and I guess quite a few of the people on this board) would rather buy legit R1 releases of anime and other movies (in some cases actually come out before the cinema releases in the UK if not months before the UK, one example being Disney's UP which came out here around the same time as the US DVD/Bluray release!) especially of stuff that will never come out here like One Piece and Dragonball Z than pirate DVD's.

And FYI, I buy legit merchandise where possible, especially from the likes of TokyoToys and I also shop around for manga as cheap as possible at Expo; one example being both volumes of the Kujibiki Unbalance manga for £10 at the last MCM Expo! :D

On another note, CEX actually buy R1 DVD's here for sale in their US stores although you don't get much money doing so and you'd be better off selling them on eBay.

Another good reason for buying R1 DVD's are the JPop/JRock ones that were released by the late lamented Tofu Records for artists like TM Revolution and L'arc-en-Ciel and which you can find on eBay.
 
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