SundayMorningCall said:
hitting children is wrong, no amount of statistics change that fact
We better agree on disagree here. When I have my own kids I'll shout at them or slap them. The thing is, it can't be trivial. Kid drawn on the whole wall? Kid is 2 yo? Laugh of it. No matter how mad you get, kid won't understand, just make sure to tell the kid that didn't make you happy. Kid have drawn on the wall and he's seven? Make the kid clean it all up. Kid started fighting others at school for no reason? Smack the kid up.
The way you put it, is like if I actually wanted to whip kid a 100 times. It's not like that, it's pointless to do it all the time, as it could lead the kid to grow bitter as you mentioned, but then there are kids who simply tries to push all the limits. As a parent I believe you have to make them understand there are limits that cannot be pushed.
SundayMorningCall said:
chaos said:
SundayMorningCall said:
forced national service is slavery imo
Sorry, I don't see this way. I see it as an opportunity to teach some responsibility to some. I don't beeliev it should be applied to everyone though. Back home, if you turned 18 and are in a uni, you're free from compulsory military service, if not, you're likely to have to serve for a year.
so, forcing people to do a job that they dont want to do and telling them how much they get paid and stuff and giving them no say in this, how is that not Slavery? all you need do is say only the black kids and were back in 1709 again[/quote]
Many families back home see the compulsory service as a way to break egotistical kids. If it's right or wrong is beyond me to judge, I can only tell it works. Putting all those kids from the poor to the rich together teachs them all. Mix them all together as well, white, black, yellow, jew, christian and muslim. I'm actually wondering if there are racist people in the forces. You know, they NEED to trust each other on the field. How can you trust soemone who's not your own colour if you're a racist?
You learn how to wash, iron, cook and all that jazz, no mum to look after you. But them again, Brazil is a country where people live with their parents until they get married (sometimes even longer), so in taht particular culture I see that working in a more positive way. In here people becomes independent much earlier. Althought, some never learn how to cook or iron properly
SundayMorningCall said:
I really doubt either would solve the problem, they may even make things worse, both are likely to make people angry and bitter at society for forcing them to do national service or being hit as a kid.
I'm pretty sure the older people around here might have been spanked as a kid. I know I've been a lot. And many of your parents might have had as well. Don't believe that most had come the way you paint them.[/quote]
well, my respect for you just decreased, I think violence should only be used as a very last resort, and hitting children is something that makes me feel physichally ill. I wasnt hit as a child, my parents treated me well and I have a good relationship with both of them, even though they are divorced.[/quote]
Sorry, about that. I was procuring the respect from my sisters' kids, not yours. And as I said, I don't think I overdid it there. You don't know my nephews. The fact they are always writing emails and calling me up on msn / skype tells me they actually like and care for me despise slapping them a couple times.
Also, the fact it worked for you doesn't mean it would work for everyone. For one of my nephews and two of my niece, I've needed to go further than grouding them.
Can we claim cultural differences here?
There is a very popular brazilian song taht actually criticizes being too soft raising your kids. At one point the singer says: "How can I grow up, without having anyone to rebel?"
Google translate is rubish, but might help you understand this a bit more.
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... 26hs%3DEUK
ayase said:
I agree with just about everything chaos has to say here. I would say conscription is wrong (you shouldn't have to fight in wars against your wishes) but how is a year or two of compulsory National Service any different to school or jury duty? You don't have a say in the matter about those things.
Sorry, forgot to put the conscription bit there. But in any case, the last time Brazil deployed troops out of its borders were in WW II. I believe they have a tactical / non-fighter troop in Afghanistan now, but I'm not totally sure about this.
Asdrubael said:
Its not slavery and really to say it is slavery is to play down the whole concept of slavery. To be owned, for your entire life, to have not choice in anything, to only eat, sleep when told, to have no rights or law protecting you. You also go so far as to compare it to slavery in the distant past when black men were actually considered a separate species, a sub species, from white men.
Couldn't have said better myself.
Asdrubael said:
As for smacking kids, such things have gone on for centuries yet were all here fine. Doctors, lawyers, teachers even politicians will probably have been smacked when they were kids, particularly the older ones, yet they seemed to have all turned out ok, it doesn't seem to have physiologically destroyed them. Heh it makes me wonder if the queen even was smacked as a little girl at some point when she was maybe disobedient, it wouldn't surprise me
.
It's been around for so long... It's just been placed as wrong by people like Sunday who actually listened to their parents when they were kids. As for me, if I didn't get smacked every now and then, I believe I could be in jail now with a few of my classmates from jr high or maybe dead... :/
ok, I'm being over-dramatic here, but I'm not lying when I mentioned that some of the people I use to hang around when I was youg are at jail. I would be lying if I said that I've never done some awfully wrong things when I was young.
Asdrubael said:
However I think its more than smacking that would solve the problems you see today. I think its more about parents not taking responsibility for their children from an early age. You also have cases where you see chav parents continuing their anti social behaviour and the kids will have that attitude imprinted into them from an early age. Also some parents are just kids themselves so can't really be bothered with their kids anyway.
These kids grow up and influence other kids they mate around with and it spreads. Peer pressure is a massive thing when your a kid
Moreso if the peer-pressure is coming from all sides, including your parents.
Mutsumi said:
Corporal punishment should be brought back. It is effective, & after all it is only pain we're talking about here, not injury. Pain is the best teacher out there; it teaches you what things you shouldn't do in a way you will remember.
It has never been banned. I mean, parents can still do it, within reason.
