DARLING in the FRANXX: Episode 24

D1tchd1gger

Railgun
I really liked the endings message about love and nature finding a way, and I was fine with the reincarnation bit as their souls were destined for each other it seems. But the final battle stuff was a bit stupid.

I was hoping they were going to somehow get back to earth have a couple kids
Zero Two said at some point she couldn't. I think because she is a clone of a Claxo-sapian and the Claxo-sapians had already gone down the path the humans were heading and lost that ability.

It seemed to me to be Kiznaiver x Gurren Lagann and at some points didn't know what it wanted to be. I liked both sides of the story, but not all of the drama side or all of the action side and they could have been blended together a bit better. For example 16-18 slowed it down a bit too much and probably could have been condensed into 2 episodes maybe. And action wise the introduction of the VIRM and the whole mega Strelizia/Zero Two bit was the usual Trigger/Gainax taking it over 9000, but normally they start at 1000 and build up in a nice curve where this had only just about reached 2000 at most!
7/10
 
I really liked the endings message about love and nature finding a way, and I was fine with the reincarnation bit as their souls were destined for each other it seems. But the final battle stuff was a bit stupid.


Zero Two said at some point she couldn't. I think because she is a clone of a Claxo-sapian and the Claxo-sapians had already gone down the path the humans were heading and lost that ability.

It seemed to me to be Kiznaiver x Gurren Lagann and at some points didn't know what it wanted to be. I liked both sides of the story, but not all of the drama side or all of the action side and they could have been blended together a bit better. For example 16-18 slowed it down a bit too much and probably could have been condensed into 2 episodes maybe. And action wise the introduction of the VIRM and the whole mega Strelizia/Zero Two bit was the usual Trigger/Gainax taking it over 9000, but normally they start at 1000 and build up in a nice curve where this had only just about reached 2000 at most!
7/10
For some reason I now want the klaxo sapien to be referred to as claxo sama (perhaps a familiarity thing in a joking way?)
But the end was absolutely how trigger makes it's bread, it just wasn't as strong or stable as other things they had done, I think one of the problems is that they never really developed any personality for the final threat, gurren stopped it's heroes in their tracks for the anti spiral to explain their story, explain why they might be right, what do you think though, could this have used two more episodes to give certain things at the end more space?
 

D1tchd1gger

Railgun
could this have used two more episodes to give certain things at the end more space?
I think if they cut some stuff from 16-19 and seeded some stuff in earlier it could have worked better. The design of the final form of Strelizia could have looked better/less stupid. Like Zero Two's spirit could have appeared in the cockpit or something rather than the robot turn into her.

Looking at the episode lists for GL and KlaK
the final boss gets mentioned or hinted at much earlier episode 15/26 in GL and 11/24 in KlaK. The first hint of something else going on in FranXX is in episode 17/24 when the Klaxo-sapian queen kills some of the APE members and calls them "human wannabes" and also, I think, one of the suits is empty (it happens quite quickly). Then they get fully revealed towards the end of episode 20. 17/26 in GL and 16/24 in KlaK.
 
Zero Two's spirit could have appeared in the cockpit or something
but the cockpit of the big one was taken up by sterilizer and it's cockpit was taken up by hiro, I do get how dumb it looks though, the metaphor is a bit too obvious and the franxx have the pistil's faces anyway, so if the big one had it's face from having sterilizer's face from zeros, why would it have to be zeros? a lot of questions on that alone...
Looking at the episode lists for GL and KlaK
the final boss gets mentioned or hinted at much earlier episode 15/26 in GL and 11/24 in KlaK. The first hint of something else going on in FranXX is in episode 17/24 when the Klaxo-sapian queen kills some of the APE members and calls them "human wannabes" and also, I think, one of the suits is empty (it happens quite quickly). Then they get fully revealed towards the end of episode 20. 17/26 in GL and 16/24 in KlaK.
quite a good look into that, and yes it does mean they've done it better before, though I do think the anti - spiral in GL do tend to like acting as more of a roadblock until they explain what they've done, it is still more development than the VIRM, after everything there is virtually nothing to know about them, and putting Franxx, GL and KLK together I'd say KLK has the more developed top dog, there's a lot to know about Ragyo's relationship with the main cast, what she actually holds (for example, she is the one who owns the academy) but I do still feel like her goal is under cooked, knowing her goal, why would anyone do it without it seeming somewhat reasonable? some edgy protagonists/antagonists go for something destructive because, as light in Death Note says, "the world is rotting" they believe the current state of things is not worth the effort to save it.
backing up a bit to the aesthetics of giant waifu zeros, it's obvious that they've made it symbolise a wedding dress, but it looks all sorts of clunky and something looking that close to what should be imagined is a bad metaphor, they did the same thing better in KLK, Junketsu resembles a navy uniform, as does much of the other uniforms since they are actually used for battle, but satsuki calls it a wedding dress, and it fits in with her ideal of her pure intentions.
Franxx wasn't bad, it's just that closer to the end it borrowed from it's other works where it's done those things better, and A1 seemed to have trouble keeping up. it's Studio Trigger, ya ain't ever gonna keep up
 

WMD

Great Teacher
So I've seen some of the chat across the forum about the show recently and decided to bring Franxx to the top of my watch list. I watched ep1-3 on friday, 4-22 on sunday and teh final 2 last night. Wasnt sure where to post this but this seemed as good a place as any (and like much of the thread this post is spoilery.)

First off I'd like to say that I did really enjoy this show and all of the crazy it brings to the table. The pacing issue some have mentioned didnt happen for me but given I watched most if it in a single day it's not the same as watching it 1 a week of whatever.

The early part of the show felt like a sorry/not sorry meta commentary on how female characters are portrayed in sci fi anime. The overtly sexual imagery and innuendo having the girls on all fours with actual riding handles coming out their butts whilst having the characters start out completely non sexual was an interesting platform to start on. I enjoyed the way the character relationships and drama were developed as they awakened to their underlying humanity.

The Virm seemed like the ultimate right wing, conservative, tyrant metaphor to me. They want complete homogeneity in the population and reject the idea of sex which has been a very taboo subject for conservatives forever. They also set themselves up as an idyllic saviour whilst brainwashing the masses into subservience. I think that's why the reveal is late and so jarring. We only learn with the main characters and we share in their confusion at having their world view completely dismantled in an instant.

The use of terminology parasite for the pilots is also interesting especially as they can no longer be parasites once pregnant. In the human genome we have one virus encoded into our DNA. This virus is only produced in one instance and that's the placenta of a pregnant woman. The virus prevents the body from recognising the presence of alien/parasitic life forms invading the body. Without this virus the foetus would be destroyed as a parasite by the mother's immune system.
 

WMD

Great Teacher
I also wanted to add as there was some mention of the show being homophobic that I didnt take that from it at all. At the end we see Naomi and Ikuno in a relationship. Both becoming disabled was I felt meant to be symbolic of the hardships most LGTB+ people face in the world. They have had to sacrifice much more to find happiness.
 
Why are people so hung up on the way the Franxx are piloted?
Trigger had a hand in it and they are known to do random things that don't mean a lot.
It's just something that differentiates the female pilots from the male ones, the relationships they need to make the Franxx work is reminiscent of mature relationships, something the adults actually don't need to form, so they've been "bred" in a way where that doesn't happen.

Also, the roles are reversed for the 9 numbers, it's only the 0 numbers that have a male "stalem" pilot

The ending though, everything's brought in a mile s minute. There was at least some foreshadowing of the more important stuff in KLK, but Darling comes up with possibly the most important thing like 4 episodes before its finished, there's nothing to learn about them. Its kind of the problem have g two studios work together like that, neither of them are really gonna know what's going on at the other
 

Neil.T

Railgun
First off I'd like to say that I did really enjoy this show and all of the crazy it brings to the table.
. . .
I enjoyed the way the character relationships and drama were developed as they awakened to their underlying humanity.
These were my two highlights of the show as well. I thought the action sequences were consistently fantastic, and I said in one of my old posts while watching the series on Crunchyroll for the first time that, for me, the Japanese VAs really responded to the quality of the character writing and delivered some pretty raw and visceral performances. Top notch.

I think that's why the reveal is late and so jarring. We only learn with the main characters and we share in their confusion at having their world view completely dismantled in an instant.
As I alluded to in another post, I took the VIRM reveal so differently second time around, partly because of realising that it was actually hinted at earlier on. You've got the series on BD, haven't you, @WMD? Don't know whether it'd interest you at all, but discs 2 and 4 have a video commentary each in the extras. The one for episode 23 is particularly interesting, and talks about how things in the series are often foreshadowed by a long way, which was a difficult challenge for a simuldub.

The use of terminology parasite for the pilots is also interesting especially as they can no longer be parasites once pregnant.
Again, this came to me at one point as well, and it's yet another clever element in the writing. 👍

I also wanted to add as there was some mention of the show being homophobic that I didnt take that from it at all.
. . .
At the end we see Naomi and Ikuno in a relationship. Both becoming disabled was I felt meant to be symbolic of the hardships most LGTB+ people face in the world.
No, indeed. Me neither. I think that particular user's entire argument was that the show's creators had made something inherently homophobic by dint of the fact that the robots are not pilotable by two people of the same gender, and they suggested that, as a work of fiction, it didn't have to be that way. I think that misses the entire point myself.

As for Naomi and Ikuno, I hadn't looked at the idea of their respective disabilities as potentially being symbolism, but I find that interesting now. You're really sharp with these kind of observations, @WMD!

Its kind of the problem have g two studios work together like that, neither of them are really gonna know what's going on at the other
Just thinking out loud here, but something that seems to get overlooked in FRANXX discussion is that the show is, and correct me if I'm wrong here, an A-1 Pictures production, with help from Studio Trigger in the action scenes, much like how Ordet farmed out the action sequences in the TV version of Black Rock Shooter to Sanzigen. The Trigger name being so prominent in advertising is perfect for pulling in fans of that studio to watch FRANXX too.

(Fun fact: Strelizia's transforming sequence in episode 1 is a mirror of Kill la Kill protagonist Ryuuko's.)

Also worth noting is that the action director of Black Rock Shooter was Hiroyuki Imaishi of Gurren Lagann fame, and he fulfills the same role in FRANXX with the same kind of aplomb. The man knows exactly how to deliver some OTT combat.
 
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WMD

Great Teacher
You've got the series on BD, haven't you, @WMD? Don't know whether it'd interest you at all, but discs 2 and 4 have a video commentary each in the extras. The one for episode 23 is particularly interesting, and talks about how things in the series are often foreshadowed by a long way, which was a difficult challenge for a simuldub.
Yeah I'll have to check them out. I use to watch the commentaries all the time but havent for a while now!
 

Professor Irony

Cursed Image
Moderator
Man, I've been thinking about how to break this one down for the last couple of days and it still feels like a lot.

Franxx has its moments, but I feel like it's constantly at odds with itself in terms of what it wants to do, to the point where the bits that interested me often fell by the wayside in favour of the bits that didn't. For the first six episodes or so, it felt like an action filled romp, and I enjoyed it on that level, but as it tried to grow the plot out from there, what it was doing just didn't grab me in the same way.

The series has a knack for melodrama and ending each episode in a way that made me want to watch the next one, but it's frequently derivative and often goes through significant stretches where I already knew what was going to happen. I'd have been far more willing to forgive its derivative nature, however, if I thought it was better paced. It wasn't always just that I thought it went on too long (for example, Zero Two's character arc kind of resolved itself by the half-way point and I thought she was far less entertaining thereafter) but if they'd rattled through the familiar parts to focus on the good ideas the show did have, I think I'd have come away with a more positive view of the show overall.

One of the many things I like about FRANXX is that the longer run gives more room for everything to breathe, and avoids it being your typical single-cour anime series with too many different ideas crushed into too little time and not managing to do a decent job of resolving them all come the end of it. And then making a second season that repeats all those same mistakes.
I get your argument here and I'm not saying this isn't exactly what we'd all have been thinking if it was a one-cour series, but I just didn't find what it was doing engaging enough that I felt two cours were justified either. For it to be a longer show, I'd either have liked some additional character development or maybe even just more mech action like what we had in the early episodes. As much as it would have left so much unresolved, I honestly think they could have ended the show after episode 6 and I'd have been quite satisfied with that.

Both becoming disabled was I felt meant to be symbolic of the hardships most LGTB+ people face in the world. They have had to sacrifice much more to find happiness.
Not sure I'd have reached that if you hadn't mentioned it, but that is a nice way of reading it. I thought their relationship was probably the most interesting of the little vignettes at the end of the show, even if it's unfortunate that the only characters in a same sex relationship are the ones apparently facing an inevitable tragedy on the horizon, with Ikuno's rapid aging.

I do stick by my initial assumption though that, while I don't think the show was ever consciously trying to push any kind of heteronormative agenda, it would be easy to get unfortunate connotations like this from it at times, particularly in the early part of the show, given that we're both introduced to the male/female pairing pilot setup, and hear the speech about male and female birds relying upon each other, in farily close proximity. It was my hope that the show would have done more to engage with this, as I did wonder if it wasn't gearing up for some kind of grand satire on Japan's aging population and the government's desperate attempts to increase the birth rate at the expense of individual happiness. I think it's still possible to read that into it, but if that was ever on the agenda, I don't think it comes through as clearly or as meaningfully as it could have.

Nevertheless, if we're counting Franxx as a Trigger show, it does at least feel like having an acknolwedged LGBTQ character (even a relatively minor one) in what is implied to be a loving relationship is a step forwards for them.
 
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