1, By virtue of s.4 of the Video Recordings Act 1984 the Secretary of State bestowed upon the BBFC the duty of film classification. They do not need to pass anything at all. It is a self-governing organ within the boundaries of the law. But, since they 'take into consideration the public opinion (the opinion of conservative pressure groups), I think they will impose harsher criterions using the public opinion and the usual democracy argument. Especially if the UNICEF tards successfully get a bunch of people together to howl and shout lame slogans for a while. The BBFC want the public to whine and whinge, so they can claim to have acted in accordance with the public opinion.
Coroners and Justice Bill.....Threat to anime??
- Thread starter a.m200805
- Start date
For me, I don't download or copy any series of anime. And also I don't watch and don't support lolicon.
The thing that am concering is...for example, you know, is Spring at the moment, loads of new series of anime will be release in Japan. And of couse, we do want to know what kind of anime they are.....Hence, we will put a search on Google or Wikipedia to see what will come up. And we can know what series is our cup of tea and save up money to buy while they release in the UK.....Now, here it is the problem. If that series "crossed the line" "acidentally" (which fall into the gray area, or is just people "overkill" it) or does not passed by the BBFC, you will broke the law and got sent to jail. But you don't intent to download or what so ever after.
And here is other situation.
One day that you go to Youtube, checking out people's AMV (Anime music video), suddenly, one of the scene has crossed the gray area. Which can also to get people in trouble after.
The above situations that I state is trying to say is, the gray area of this bill is so wide and also, we don't know what kind of art work has crossed the line (which might say, people have different opinion of the age of the charactor for example).
I've read their consultation papers before, and I found out that the gray area is so wide. It is already hard to judge the age of a "real" person by just only the appearance of the person (I know loads of people, I thought they are younger then me but in fact they are older then me. And also I know people who looks older then me, but they are younger then me.) . And it is going to be REALLY hard to judge the age of the charactor in the art work by just the appearance.
And also, the thing about fan service, nearly every anime has it these days (even Shakugan No Shana has it. At first, I thought it will not has it, but at one of the episode, it has) . Which is also in the gray area.
That's the thing. You might say, this charactor looks like 18. But they might say, this charactor looks like 17. And this will put people in trouble.
I don't watch hentai and I don't watch lolicon and also don't support both of them. But I don't what to be put into jail just because I went to Youtube and watch some AMV; and one of the scene in an AMV (or any other sort of video on youtube contains art work) contain some some fan art arround the world and is in the gray area which I don't know that these kind of picture(s) is in the AMV untill I reached to the middle part of the AMV.
The thing that am concering is...for example, you know, is Spring at the moment, loads of new series of anime will be release in Japan. And of couse, we do want to know what kind of anime they are.....Hence, we will put a search on Google or Wikipedia to see what will come up. And we can know what series is our cup of tea and save up money to buy while they release in the UK.....Now, here it is the problem. If that series "crossed the line" "acidentally" (which fall into the gray area, or is just people "overkill" it) or does not passed by the BBFC, you will broke the law and got sent to jail. But you don't intent to download or what so ever after.
And here is other situation.
One day that you go to Youtube, checking out people's AMV (Anime music video), suddenly, one of the scene has crossed the gray area. Which can also to get people in trouble after.
The above situations that I state is trying to say is, the gray area of this bill is so wide and also, we don't know what kind of art work has crossed the line (which might say, people have different opinion of the age of the charactor for example).
I've read their consultation papers before, and I found out that the gray area is so wide. It is already hard to judge the age of a "real" person by just only the appearance of the person (I know loads of people, I thought they are younger then me but in fact they are older then me. And also I know people who looks older then me, but they are younger then me.) . And it is going to be REALLY hard to judge the age of the charactor in the art work by just the appearance.
And also, the thing about fan service, nearly every anime has it these days (even Shakugan No Shana has it. At first, I thought it will not has it, but at one of the episode, it has) . Which is also in the gray area.
That's the thing. You might say, this charactor looks like 18. But they might say, this charactor looks like 17. And this will put people in trouble.
I don't watch hentai and I don't watch lolicon and also don't support both of them. But I don't what to be put into jail just because I went to Youtube and watch some AMV; and one of the scene in an AMV (or any other sort of video on youtube contains art work) contain some some fan art arround the world and is in the gray area which I don't know that these kind of picture(s) is in the AMV untill I reached to the middle part of the AMV.
Elfen Lied wasn't produced for the purpose of sexual gratification, or Gantz, and the list is bloody damn long. The prosecution would of course argue that it was, despite the whole show not being porographic.
It doesn't say 'a kid blushing in a swimsuit'. Though UNICEF is anal about swimsuits, we'll see how much damage those fools will do.
This, I think, is pretty clear. If you had no intent, you are not threatened. When you're watching Elfen Lied (even although it falls short of the situations envisaged in the above two extracts, but lets just say for the sake of argument), and child abuse is implied (again I stress that this is insufficient, but just for the sake of argument), you have no reason to suspect that it would. What you see on the cover of the DVDs is an adult, humanoid female, and there's no writing in large print saying 'CHILD ABUSE'. A criminal act (for the most part) requires two things to coexist: actus reus and mens rea. The act (possession in this case) and the blameworthy state of mind (the intention to come into possession/maintain possession), if
Watching amv's is a different thing. They are largely doujin and only the fans know what they put into it. On the other hand, given the popularity of Bleach, Dragonball, Naruto, you name it, everyone is preoccupied with making shounen amvs using footage gathered from at least half an episode. What I'm saying is that hentai amvs are rare, bloody damn rare. BUT, your defence applies here as well. An AMV is by definition a mixture of scenes and very often scenes taken from various shows. If you go and watch an AMV made from a loli show, no, you will have no defence, because, obviously, what the hell were you expecting from a loli show? Bakunyuu rofl? But if it is a mix of anime, and there just happens to be a loli scene or frame you never would have or could have expected, you will have a defence.
Any other questions? I feel like I'm becoming a Coroners and Justice Bill expert lol. Maybe I should become a libertarian Human Rights crusader rofl.
Well, of course, you are right here. Watching a lolicon AMV will have NO defence.
But the thing is, even the defence works for the AMV (with NO lolicon material at all but has gray area materials) that you don't know what will be in there. They will put you into the court first. You name will be on the front page of the news paper, everyone knows who you are. Then after the court, your defence works, but you name is already on the news paper. And everyone will think you are that kind of people and completely forget that you are victim of that video which you don't know what they (the video uploader or the producer of that video) have put in the middle of the video. And at the end, it just wast you time, the tax payer's money and people will think that you are a sex offender and infact you are not.
And also, you need to prove that you don't know it first (which is really annoying, takes time and they might not accept it as a prove). And also, if the same situation happens again, they will not trust you anymore and the defence will not work.
Its not so easy. Not every case is prosecuted. The prosecution service knows very well which cases are worth their time and which aren't. Even before there can be a trial, the case must pass this hurdle. Under Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights, you are entitled to a fair trial, which includes a very powerful, a very, very powerful right: presumption of innocence. The right not to be presumed to be guilty. This means that the prosecutor will have to prove that you are guilty and not vice versa. Also, if they happen to search your home and check your computer (which is, quite honestly, unlikely), the police won't be going around saying 'We think he's a sex offender, come, here's a cart of rotten tomatoes, 20 pence each!'.
Again, let me reiterate this. We are not living in in the medieval era, there are no dominicans among the jury or the judges, let alone anyone by the name Torquemada. If the prosecution has no proper evidence. Incriminating evidence, you will be acquitted.
The issue is one of vagueness. A clear case of the Sorites Paradox. At which point can we consider a character to be an adult? And ambiguity in addition: what traits must it exhibit? Which of these traits are the defining ones? The act very vaguely says 'impression'. Well, bloody hell, I have a mate who used to live next door to me. He's four years older than I am, has no facial hair whatsoever and a childlike countenance. If this can occur in the real life Europe, why would it not occur in anime? Especially considering the anthropological traits of most Japanese persons, and the fact that their diet generally doesn't cater for über cleavages.
Any other questions?
Again, let me reiterate this. We are not living in in the medieval era, there are no dominicans among the jury or the judges, let alone anyone by the name Torquemada. If the prosecution has no proper evidence. Incriminating evidence, you will be acquitted.
The issue is one of vagueness. A clear case of the Sorites Paradox. At which point can we consider a character to be an adult? And ambiguity in addition: what traits must it exhibit? Which of these traits are the defining ones? The act very vaguely says 'impression'. Well, bloody hell, I have a mate who used to live next door to me. He's four years older than I am, has no facial hair whatsoever and a childlike countenance. If this can occur in the real life Europe, why would it not occur in anime? Especially considering the anthropological traits of most Japanese persons, and the fact that their diet generally doesn't cater for über cleavages.
Any other questions?
ilmaestro
State Alchemist
Derfel/others - what would be your take on where To-LOVE-ru would fall if this was passed? If anyone doesn't/hasn't read it, it's a Weekly Jump series which features various scenes of 16/17 year old girls (and mainly one boy, and one boy-slash-girl-but-not-at-the-same-time) in fanservicey-comedy situations with sexually humorous undertones, but in the tankobon release nipples (which were absent from the serialized release) are very much drawn in.
ilmaestro
State Alchemist
Aha, fair enough. It absolutely has to "focus on the anal or genital area" before it can even begin to fall under this new proposal? I'm trying to think of some other fairly mainstream (ie. not actually porn) series that still might fall foul. And I wonder how they would decide if something was intended for sexual gratification, unless it's quite obvious.
ilmaestro said:
Not necessarily, there is an 'or' between a and b of s.6. And s.7 lists intercourse or masturbation in presence of a child. I will use this example again: Imagine a scenario where you have two adult characters in the throes of passion. Now there's a kid peeking through the keyhole or something. The test has been satisfied. Though only technically, in reality, the 'Learned Judges' might just say 'Parliament could never have intended such an absurdity... [flowery language]... [more flowerfy language]... [latin]... therefore we acquit." But they might not.
A thing I'm unsure about is whether pocket hockey counts as masturbation for the purposes of the act.
Project-2501
Straw Hat Pirate
a.m200805 said:
Its non-issue. Its covered by the 'acidental viewing' clause and because you've not actually saved a copy on your computer you are not in possesion of it.
And at the end of the day they still require reasonable grounds to suspect you of being a peado before they can even get a warrant to search your computer.
There is a big difference between someone who has a couple of dodgey images/videos in their browser history and someone with gigabytes of such images/videos and a huge empty pile of kleenex man size tissue boxes next to his PC.
ilmaestro, its got to be classifiable as porn, so not just a view of a nipple. Seeing giant naked Rei in EoE won't get you arrested
ilmaestro
State Alchemist
I have to be fair, I could probably do with reading the thing myself rather than asking other people, but I'll still ask another one: Tenjou Tenge? I don't think I could show some of the scenes in that to many people without them thinking it was pornographic, and the girls in that are under 18 for the most part.Project-2501 said:
Project-2501
Straw Hat Pirate
Apart from the fact you can't actually see it.
But that is clearly not for sexual-arousal. The message behind is 'ZOMG look at poor Shinji! He's so confused.' and not 'Oh yeah, choke the monkey to Asuka!'
Thank you.
No, I've not even heard about Steve Bell up until now. Just looked him up, and I have to say, this stuff is funny as hell. Thanks for pointing it out.
Your understanding of the legal system never fails to amaze me. Been reading Steve Bell recently?
Thank you.
No, I've not even heard about Steve Bell up until now. Just looked him up, and I have to say, this stuff is funny as hell.
Thanks for pointing it out.