Cogito Ergo Proxy simulwatch [RS] (29/11 - 21/12)

Episode 15

So out of the 3 kind of out there episodes we have I think I liked this one the most. Quiz desu! It was certainly a unique way to both entertain and include some exposition.

In amongst the questions and the rounds there was definitely some good background info. My rough summary is as follows:

World falling apart and becoming uninhabitable resulted in (at least) two things.

Thing 1 - The Proxy Project. 300 beings created to carry forth "something" so that when the world become habitable again they could fulfil their purpose. The pulse of the awakening appears to be the sign of this.

Thing 2 - The interplanetary evacuation ship. It sounds like that failed though?

There may be other things beyond these two that we don't know about, and the Proxy Project may have been undertaken when the evacuation ship failed.

It's taken longer than they expected for the planet to recover so initial calculations may be incorrect and all of the systems/proxies have probably been operating for far longer than they were designed to, hence some of them going a bit crazy.

Side guess 1 - Vincents job as the Proxy of Death is to kill the other proxies and then die himself (or at least his proxy elements need to die). This heralding in a new age.

Side guess 2 - I wonder who proxy 1 is? Re-i? an interesting query for sure.
 
Other things I forgot to mention about Episode 15.

Was the purpose of the game show not just an info dump but also to broadcast about proxies and the awakening to the rest of the world (assuming they had working tech to receive and watch the signals?). So as we were the viewers of it, so was everyone else who was capable of seeing it in the world.

Additionally was the game show host himself a proxy? It seems this was another proxy battle but one without direct fighting.
 
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For me this show just gets better and better the more abstract it gets, having just finished up to the quiz show episode, though I can imagine that would be grating for some of us.

Theres a scary idea of determinism here whereby even upon achieving self awareness and a soul a person still doesn't really have free will.
It is certainly interesting how much focus there is on this using the three seemingly distinct self-aware beings. Even in real life we are forever consciously, or subconsciously, seeking a tether in the form of a meaning to life or some important a role to fulfill, all despite our free will which should not necessitate one methinks.
Of all the chatacters I thought might die the first time I watched Iggy wasn't one of them
For me Iggy seemed to have a very supporting role so I can't say I was surprised with his passing first, tragic and confusing to the poor sod as it was. He never came across as the most important autoriev somehow and even his contracting the cogito virus felt like an inevitability, though like others I didn't think he had got it that early but rather after extended contact with Pino.
Look at how that backfired though, he was talking about keeping her safe at the exact same time she had a totally different autoreiv after her. Funny how the autoreivs get an idea into their head and they can't work it out logically to see that it's a bad course of action to follow, it seems everyone wants a piece of Re-i.
Yeah I watched this illogical discussion Iggy was having thinking, "uh dude you're giving out ideas about having to take action for your charge, who just so happens to have killed the charge of the one you're conversing with...huh, hey wait where are you going leaving her all locked up and unarmed... dude, dude?! Bah no harm done, he knows full well that Re-l is a badass." Or was that just the other half of his now dual persona that actively wanted to punish Re-l and make her suffer?
I loved how she excused this excuse not once, but twice this episode! 🐰

I wonder what she's reading, maybe it's "Do androids dream of Electric sheep?" Or perhaps the multi-printed award winning hit, "Vincent Law".

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Multi-printed award winner, hahaha brilliant! Pino is just a legend as well heheh. And again, though I don't feel Pino has really demonstrated any jealous traits at all, this would otherwise have been another good mimic of that child-like personality with jealousy directed at the competition for the attention of the one you're closest to, and anger at the latter for daring to split their attention that way also. But yeah no, she just wanted to read her frigging book in peace.
Vincent struggles with identity crisis and it goes all John Malkovich.
That is certainly a good way to describe it! :D
That is indeed a perfect summary!
So in a really dark and twisted way Iggy's death is a resentment filled redemption for putting her in danger in the first place.
That's another good point and would make him more human than machine as if so then the genuine emotions he developed seriously messed with his computational ability for him to not be instantly aware of having just endangered Re-l.
But it's one of the very best dub performances I've ever heard.
Gosh, now I feel compelled to watch this episode again with the dub! But not as much asi want to binge all the remaining episodes heh.
Episode 14
An Among Us situation. Good thing Re-l figured out how to tell them a part.. unless they are not the real Vincent and Re-l. Dun Dun Dun.
Aha, wouldn't that be just a perfect Twilight zone episode heh. Reminds of a Star Trek TNG episode I watched as a kid where Picard had a doppelanger and I couldn't for the life of me tell which one had survived in the end. I need to make time to re-watch that series again at some point...
Was the other proxy real? and if so how did it die?
I do love these types of episodes but yeah was left very much scratching my head that there was no overt show of this Proxy dying at the hands of our resident Proxy-terminator.
Yeah it's certainly an interesting one, and I hope we learn a bit more about how the cities and the proxies are tied together.
I'm now wondering if I misheard or misunderstood some statement from earlier that said a Proxy is essential for the survival of the Dome/it's residents, with the issues of decline in Romdo resulting directly from the apparent death of Monad (who I therefore presumed was stolen from Mosk to help create Romdo as the newest dome perhaps?), rather than Romdo's decline just a result of general wear & tear.
What is the name of this song? Cue opening credits. Brilliant.
That is the deservedly placed confidence in your opening credits' song. Brilliant touch indeed.
The way it manages to drop so much historical lore and world building in this zany quiz setting is pretty remarkable.
It certainly came across as the most innovative and entertaining way to perform a lore dump, akin to how Re:Creators did the most perfect recap episode I've ever watched.
I love when we first see Re-l and Pino in the spectator tubes that Re-l is visibly angry and Pino is just having a blast. It makes me laugh every time! And I really like the reuse of the Vincent eyes metaphor where they are closed for most of the epsiode while he is confused and doing badly but then start opening more and more in the final round as he pushes for victory and gets answers right.
Those two and their reactions were hilarious indeed, for me especially later with Pino being Pino and just copying the pixelated image exactly and Re-l just being the moody emo and not engaging - cracked me up. Vincent progressing gradually from conformist office worker hairstyle and respectfully sleepy look, to his damn-right-I'm-the-MC-here hairstyle and open-action-eyes delinquency was pretty cool, and if anything I'm surprised he didn't go full tilt ergo proxy mode by the end.
our recently departed host MCQ
I just get a big "KOREwa..DARAAYY??" in my head every time I think of Mr MCQ heheh. I second your love for this episode, I felt it was brilliant as well.
It's taken longer than they expected for the planet to recover so initial calculations may be incorrect and all of the systems/proxies have probably been operating for far longer than they were designed to, hence some of them going a bit crazy.
I took away that the awakening process had been initiated inappropriately early before the world is quite habitable again, maybe like you said because the Proxies are now losing it. Also interesting how the mention of the cogito virus sounded like it was meant as a fail-safe of some sort, presumably for the Proxies that were maybe meant to be more automated caretakers but have become more self-aware? (If they aren't immortalised & emotionally suppressed humans to begin with that is). Whereas I had previously been thinking the cogito virus was the autorievs' way of evolution and becoming self-aware.
Other things I forgot to mention about Episode 15.

Was the purpose of the game show not just an info dump but also to broadcast about proxies and the awakening to the rest of the world (assuming they had working tech to receive and watch the signals?). So as we were the viewers of it, so was everyone else who was capable of seeing it in the world.

Additionally was the game show host himself a proxy? It seems this was another proxy battle but one without direct fighting.
Yeah if I remember correctly he did mention about this being another way for Proxies to battle? Maybe he was the agent of truth or something..
 
Multi-printed award winner, hahaha brilliant! Pino is just a legend as well heheh. And again, though I don't feel Pino has really demonstrated any jealous traits at all

If she did they weren't overtly obvious ones, but I got the feeling that she may have been a little jealous when she was wondering off playing her organ thing, seemed like in a bit of a huff as I recall, that was what led to her falling down the hole and coming across the other proxy (you could say Pino is a proxy hunter of sorts here).

Vincent progressing gradually from conformist office worker hairstyle and respectfully sleepy look, to his damn-right-I'm-the-MC-here hairstyle and open-action-eyes delinquency was pretty cool

Yeah this was very much the episode showing the Vincent transformation start to finish, he begins it all meekly and winds up, as you say, very much in the I'm-the-MC-here style :)

Yeah if I remember correctly he did mention about this being another way for Proxies to battle? Maybe he was the agent of truth or something..

Agent of entertainment!
 
With regards to the Proxies in the last 2 episodes and their deaths. We can assume Vincent does his electric eye thing on the doppelganger proxy as when he goes down the last time we see blue lightning effects underwater from the surface so it's clear he kills it himself.

With MCQ it's a bit vaguer but he is also struck by the blue lightning at the very end (in a rare post credits scene i think) so i think it's fair to say he was also a Proxy. Whether its Ergo Proxy that kills him or not is more unclear in this situation. But his assertion that 25 people have failed and died at the quiz does suggest that hes already killed 25 other Proxies prior to Vincent's arrival.
 
Episodes 13-15
There was a little difference I noticed between the sub and what Re_l said when complaining about Pino. The sub had "she", but Re_l said "autoreiv", I'm guessing the implication is that she sees Pino as a thing still rather than 'human' that the virus seems to turn the autoreivs into. So I would have put "it" instead of "she". Over to @Neil.T if he remembers that line or wants to check it out.
Good shout on Iggy going all cogito mode @D1tchd1gger - I hadn't guessed it was so far back he got infected, at best I thought it may have occurred in this episode with his proximity to Pino.
Yeah, I didn't think/remember it was that far back, but we've spent very little time with Iggy between that incident and episode 12. Even when in Robot town, the focus was on Re_l for the most part and Iggy was faking the loyal Entourage well.
Iggy going off the rails was glorious to watch, and how he basically kidnapped Re-i to protect her was of course backwards, but to him it was the best choice to make at the time.
As seen many times in Sci-fi. AI becomes aware and due to its programming declares the safest way to keep the peace is to lock up/wipe out humanity!

When I saw the title of 14 I thought @Neil.T will be all over this with a Wikipedia link and then the opening shot of Re_l drowning looked real familiar and the opening minutes really did try to sell that Easter egg, but then it flipped to something else. And @Neil.T didn't mention it at all!
So Ophelia is a character from Shakespeare's Hamlet who is driven mad and then drowns and the scene of Re_l copies a famous painting of the scene:
Like I say the opening minutes did seem it would be about Re_l going mad after the trauma of the previous episode, but then Vincent started seeing stuff and then he basically ended up talking to himself again with no movement on the actual plot, so I was the one driven mad 🤪

Episode 15 was a bit of a shock first time round for me as well, but again like @Lordhippos I liked it the best out of the tangent episodes because it actually gave some answers pertinent to the actual plot of what are the Proxies and also some law about the world. Also hints as to the role of the autorievs and the virus being part of a plan IIRC (I'm writing this very quickly before going to work and can't check).

I realised I've tagged @Neil.T a few times, so in a nostalgic turn I was going to tag @Neil.T a few more times, but then I realised not many people on this thread was around at the time of the tag @Neil.T loads of times in a post was a thing!

@Neil.T
 
Episode 16

Pino in Re-l's makeup pranking Vincent is hilarious and adorable. Re-l's sigh just makes it that much funnier!

For an episode that's largely about losing your mind its surprisingly funny. Re-l observing Vincent and just kicking off the deck had me properly laughing. The toilet seat, the hole in the sock and the stray hair sapping her mental strength manages to both be tragic and funny. Especially with the pay offs that there's a whole drawer of new socks and Re-l just plucking the hair off his face (especially after the Shave it! Shave it! moment)

In the end Re-l learns to cut loose a bit and smile which is nice note to end on after everything she's been through and losing Iggy.

And as always Pino is just a ray of sunshine in this world. Left handed unless shes drawing which is obviously a very important task.
 
Episode 16
And here we are, my favourite episode of the series and one of my all-time favourites in general. For an episode seemingly about doing nothing and going nowhere, there's a lot going on.

For starters, this is the most intimate look we've seen into Re-l's mind. She begins much in the vein we've seen her since episode 1: focused on investigation. Unable to find anything of significance, she starts to fixate on the insignificant, and we start to see cracks in her controlled facade as her obsessive compulsive tendencies slowly drive her mad.

The opposing forces of order and chaos have been central to the story thus far. Romdo, the city seemingly built on control that's crumbling from the inside. The Commune, held together and finally destroyed by well-intentioned lies. The cities and ruins controlled by proxies or machines that nevertheless fall to ruin. Everywhere we see control imposed, we see that control is an illusion. In this episode we see Re-l learn the lesson on a personal level. The more she tries to hold onto the illusion, the greater pressure it places on her, until she starts to fall apart. Finally she learns that where control is impossible, acceptance is key. Perhaps the pivotal scene for this theme is when Re-l sees Pino powered down, sitting peacefully like a tiny Buddha. Lying in front of her Re-l gets the first restful sleep she's had in a long time. "Form is emptiness, emptiness is form," as the heart sutra says.

As spiritual as that side of the episode is, it's also one of the funniest. Re-l's anger at Vincent's man habits and apparent lack of concern give it the air of a very dry domestic comedy, like a young couple just starting to live together and getting a shocking dose of reality about each other.

And then there's Pino. Throughout the series we've seen her skewer people's attempts to take themselves seriously, and that reaches its peak here. That scene where she wakes Vincent up while wearing Re-l's makeup never gets old.
 
I realised I've tagged @Neil.T a few times, so in a nostalgic turn I was going to tag @Neil.T a few more times, but then I realised not many people on this thread was around at the time of the tag @Neil.T loads of times in a post was a thing!
Hahh! 😂

Sorry to disappoint you, my mischief-making matey, but as the tags were all part of one post, it only generated one alert for me. 😛

Right, let's get into this.

Episodes 13-15
There was a little difference I noticed between the sub and what Re_l said when complaining about Pino. The sub had "she", but Re_l said "autoreiv", I'm guessing the implication is that she sees Pino as a thing still rather than 'human' that the virus seems to turn the autoreivs into. So I would have put "it" instead of "she". Over to @Neil.T if he remembers that line or wants to check it out.
Interesting observation. Let's first remind ourselves of the episode-13 Blu-ray subtitles, shall we? I'll then throw in my own personal translation.

First the Blu-ray subs:

Re-l: "Hey you, I think I hurt my leg. Give me a medical exam."

Pino: "Medical?"

Vincent: "She's a companion type, so she doesn't know how to do that sort of thing."

Re-l: "She's as useless as that ship."

And now my version:

Re-l: "Hey, you. It looks like my leg's hurt too. [As well as Vincent's hand] Do a medical check." [Uses a term in English]

Pino: " 'Medical'?" [Repeating this word that she's never heard before]

Vincent: "Umm... this one's a companion-type, so that's not really something that..."

Re-l: *sighs * "An AutoReiv as useless as that ship, huh?"


Vincent's line is the trickiest to translate. As I've mentioned previously, Japanese as a language often omits certain things from sentences, and matters are further complicated by the fact that it has no word for "it". The word that Vincent uses to refer to Pino here is koitsu — the very same word that Re-l uses to refer to the ship at the end of episode 14 and which lead to that confused subtitle caption that I brought up in a previous post. Koitsu is a rather vulgar-sounding word that can be used to refer to an inanimate object or, even more insultingly, a person for whom the speaker holds little or no respect. I had to think quite carefully to come up with a sentence structure that avoided using either "she" or "it" in order to maintain the ambiguity. To this point, Vincent has not once used the word kanojo ("she"/"her') to refer to Pino. Although he's grown to be more fond of her, his language gives away the fact that he still views her as an object like an electrical appliance. Also in my above translation, I aimed to preserve the way that Vincent leaves his sentence unfinished in his typically hesitant fashion.

When I saw the title of 14 I thought @Neil.T will be all over this with a Wikipedia link
Ophelia is a character from Shakespeare's Hamlet who is driven mad and then drowns
It didn't actually occur to me, partly due to time constraints, to research the episode title, but I'm glad you did, because that's very, very interesting. 😯👍

I can really see where the partially submerged Re-l's pose comes from now. Fascinating.
 
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If she did they weren't overtly obvious ones, but I got the feeling that she may have been a little jealous when she was wondering off playing her organ thing, seemed like in a bit of a huff as I recall
Ah yes you're right, I'd forgotten that. Also later there was that massive snowball she hurled at a dazed Vincent heh.
With regards to the Proxies in the last 2 episodes and their deaths. We can assume Vincent does his electric eye thing on the doppelganger proxy as when he goes down the last time we see blue lightning effects underwater from the surface so it's clear he kills it himself.

With MCQ it's a bit vaguer but he is also struck by the blue lightning at the very end (in a rare post credits scene i think) so i think it's fair to say he was also a Proxy. Whether its Ergo Proxy that kills him or not is more unclear in this situation. But his assertion that 25 people have failed and died at the quiz does suggest that hes already killed 25 other Proxies prior to Vincent's arrival.
Ah great observations and I'm now recalling about his eyes going electric blue in the water; I didn't register the lightning in the post-credits you mentioned, but will look out for it on the hopefully inevitable re-watch! So in terms of the Proxy termination tally Mr MCQ significantly leads Mr Ergo, on the info we've been provided thus far at least.
So Ophelia is a character from Shakespeare's Hamlet who is driven mad and then drowns and the scene of Re_l copies a famous painting of the scene:
Great spot on the painting homage! Unlike the play I had no idea whatsoever about the painting and it is really good to see the inspiration. Aah, shared knowledge is a wonderful thing.
Episode 16

Pino in Re-l's makeup pranking Vincent is hilarious and adorable. Re-l's sigh just makes it that much funnier!
What a fantastic episode - it is so like watching a brilliant short play on martial discord or the post-honeymoon period (minus the honeymoon)! Pino a star as always, pranking both Vincent and Re-l and the bit where she mimicked Re-l was absolutely hilarious. I can totally see Re-l's frustration at the miraculously indomitable facial hair (how? how does it keep surviving and being missed??) and the holey sock, both with drive me bat$*** crazy. All the focus we've had on purpose and here it is taken away from the party resulting in a descent to madness for the tightly wound Re-l for a significant part of the episode. Good thing she learned from Pino and Vincent to take a chill pill and let go. Also a good thing Pino didn't run out of juice!
To this point, Vincent has not once used the word kanojo ("she"/"her') to refer to Pino. Although he's grown to be more fond of her, his language gives away the fact that he still views her as an object like an electrical appliance.
Ah very good point, it certainly affects our own interpretation of Vincent's impression of Pino.

So I've watched the next two episodes and will probably be bingeing to the finishing line whilst I have access to my discs and joining in the simulwatch from memory when possible. Episode 17 has the team discovering a lost human settlement that doesn't appear to have been part of a dome and seemingly has some remnants of humanity that evolved to survive the poisonous environment within, apparently losing their language and possibly sentience in the process, as well as the ability to survive in a now more normal atmosphere. Pino reminds us that she is a skilled piano player. Raul haunted by Vincent's ghost and in his rebellious phase getting promptly fired by Seele but still outwits them and decides bombing someone would be fun. Daedalus remains unperturbed in his scheming.
 
Double whammy today as I watched episode 16 late last night, then had sleep/work.

Episode 16

This episode was a very interesting one, given the stranded scenario they found themselves in. I think this only really works at a breakpoint like this where the plot is quite heavy, I think it's nice to have an episode or two like this that are more relaxing to see.

As a general observation, this episode really bumped up my opinion or Re-i quite a bit, prior to this episode she was a little bit entitled, here we see her work out her entitlement a bit, but also bond with Vincent more, and more importantly Pino, who she showed some disdain for previously.

I enjoyed seeing her experiments and observations, and watching her go from "keeping up appearances" to "who cares about appearances?".

To me this whole episode was a fun plot break and an important character development one. Forcing these 3 to live close to each other with no other distractions has really brought them closer together.

Pino was a great fun watch as always, and no matter the situation, she acts as the bridge to iron out any awkward moments that may otherwise exist if she weren't there.

It was nice to see Re-i be a bit less emo and a bit happier for once towards the end of the episode.

Episode 17

This is the Raul episode, who is a character we've not really had a lot of focus on to date.

It's nice to see Re-i not being willing to just quit on Pino like she would have before.

We see Raul in disgrace and on the run, and the events that lead to it. It seems as the Security chief he's learnt too much and made his mind up to speak a bit too frankly about things, and as mentioned later, none of the Security chiefs ever last their full term due to this knowledge they gain. Even as they gain office, plans are made for handling this fact later on.

Those poor creatures in the cave, just like the "coffin of Romdeau" they are unable to leave the home they are born into, but the marked difference in quality of life is obvious to see between the two.

During the discussion between Daedaelus and Raul, the fact that the Proxy is necessary for the survival of the city was mentioned, but not how it's necessary. It seems they use or need the Proxy for some purpose (perhaps they are pivotal for the cloning vats). Raul seems determined to act even just to establish a change of some kind.

I suppose Raul used his last bit of time on the system to establish a fail safe, on his deletion from the system, the Rapture comes into play. As "kirei" as it is Pino, I have a feeling that missile is on it's way to destroy your transport vessel.
 
Oh lord I was coming here to brag about having caught up but I see today's episode is 17, not 16 urgh.

Growing ever closer to the end, here!

@Lordhippos in abstract heaven for a couple of episodes there ahah

I don't have a lot to say, I'm enjoying this a lot still. I admire their commitment to the game show format for episode 15, we got a lot of info about the world and it's honestly quite a novel way to go about it. I just didn't much understand how things happened?

Slice of life Proxy works better than I could ever have expected, seeing Re-i lose it because of everyday annoyances was so funny. And I take back the no romance thing, I could actually see it work, there I said it. Not that I'm expecting a happy anything out of this anime, but well.

I won't be able to watch tomorrow neither, so I'll do 17/18/19 next time, I guess.

Gonna read a few posts now.
 
Episode 17
Raul, Raul, fight the power. This episode is a good twist on the cat-and-mouse format, where we're never quite sure who has the upper hand, Raul or the forces trying to shut him down. We also learn that Romdo's administrative database has been programmed by the lowest bidder in typical government contracting fashion, since it takes a quarter of an hour to delete one person's records.
 
@Lordhippos in abstract heaven for a couple of episodes there ahah

😅

I liked the game show episode tbh, it was abstract but had purpose, and didn't keep switching me about as to the setting.

I just didn't much understand how things happened?

Isn't this true in a lot of game shows? :)

We also learn that Romdo's administrative database has been programmed by the lowest bidder in typical government contracting fashion, since it takes a quarter of an hour to delete one person's records

Standard, even the databases have bureaucracy to deal with.
 
Episode 18

Alright so Raul wasn't nuking the boat with Vincent on it, he was using "rapture" to quite literally nuke the evidence of what was at Monad.

Raul himself was very quickly captured, interrogated, and let loose, and knowing the full extent of everything, hey he's even been made back into security chief again!

Re-i asked the same question I did, why can't they live without a proxy? What is it about the proxies that makes them so important to survival? Romdeau even went to the lengths of attacking Monad to steal their proxy as they were lacking one of their own.

The proxy who destroyed the robot in the room of memories was odd, I could have at once sworn it both was and wasn't Vincent, and I think we as the viewer are meant to question this as well, after all he looked similar though never fully shown, he seemed to wear the same clothes, had the same kind of build, but his profile doesn't look quite like Vincent, they even had the same key as Vincent.

Raul wants to change the people of Romdeau so they can live in the world and not slowly die in their giant coffin, but to do so he needs Daedalus, and Daedalus needs Re-i, so Raul has his bargaining chip I suppose if he ever needs to threaten Daedalus he can just threaten the new clone of Re-i. Daedalus seems convinced it's the Real Re-i. Who's to say it definitely isn't? Could they have frozen the real one in stasis? maybe. Not really enough info to tell.

His obsession with Re-i is a tad creepy though, especially telling her not to smile at other men like she does with Daedalus.

I was hoping the trip to Monad would yield more answers, but instead we get some footnotes of information, and then a hint to go back to Romdeau to find out more.
 
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