Ahh, that's not the specific detail I had in mind, though, buddy.
I won't say any more for now.
Cogito Ergo Proxy simulwatch [RS] (29/11 - 21/12)
- Thread starter Lordhippos
- Start date
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- Tags
- ergo proxy simulwatch
I won't say any more for now.
WMD
Guild Member
Haha yeah as I already know what will happen I dont want to influence the discussion and theorizing of the people new to the show.~♪
I didn't mention the conspicuous zoom in on Re-l's name on her death certificate at the end of episode 7 either.
Episode 13
"It's your fault, you good-for-nothing bitch! Please, Re-l. Don't hate me."
My god.
The sight of Iggy punching Re-l in the diaphragm and then her waking up trapped inside the toughened glass containment capsule began the series' most dramatic turn of events for me so far, and we sure as hell haven't been short of surprises up to this point.
What a horrible, violent death Iggy suffered in the end. And it was death — a tragic one. He didn't deserve that.
The volatile mix of love and loathing he felt for Re-l before she ended his suffering forever was something extraordinary. It was something all too recognisably human.
Rest in peace, Iggy.
"It's your fault, you good-for-nothing bitch! Please, Re-l. Don't hate me."
My god.
The sight of Iggy punching Re-l in the diaphragm and then her waking up trapped inside the toughened glass containment capsule began the series' most dramatic turn of events for me so far, and we sure as hell haven't been short of surprises up to this point.
What a horrible, violent death Iggy suffered in the end. And it was death — a tragic one. He didn't deserve that.
The volatile mix of love and loathing he felt for Re-l before she ended his suffering forever was something extraordinary. It was something all too recognisably human.
Rest in peace, Iggy.
João Gomes
Thousand Master
You guys have the pilot as an extra in the MVM release? Well, "pilot", it's more of a concept video for what the series would become.
Fascinating little thing. It shows the outside world, the main characters, shows a couple of scenes what would end up in the anime, but Daedalus for instance has a slightly different (better) design as well as the Ergo Proxy himself. The latter has no mask and has a constant distorted grin, very Joker-like.
Also the council of creepy statues is in a more divine looking place, amidst golden clouds. They all surround the old man, but there are no barriers. Looks better, honestly, shame we ended up with the dark looking one we got even if it can get creepier with the ever so slight head movements the statues make.
Excellent bits of animation but kinda (just lightly) spoilery because apart from the outside world, it also shows Vincent smirking when looking at the mirror.
Now I'm watching an interview with Shukou Murase, the director. Worked on Gundam, Street Fighter II, character design for FFIX, etc. Even back then, he already expressed concern regarding not having enough base animators for an ever increasing demand for anime. We all know how bad things are for animators these days.
Gonna stop with the interview because they just started discussing the final episode. Oops.
Fascinating little thing. It shows the outside world, the main characters, shows a couple of scenes what would end up in the anime, but Daedalus for instance has a slightly different (better) design as well as the Ergo Proxy himself. The latter has no mask and has a constant distorted grin, very Joker-like.
Also the council of creepy statues is in a more divine looking place, amidst golden clouds. They all surround the old man, but there are no barriers. Looks better, honestly, shame we ended up with the dark looking one we got even if it can get creepier with the ever so slight head movements the statues make.
Excellent bits of animation but kinda (just lightly) spoilery because apart from the outside world, it also shows Vincent smirking when looking at the mirror.
Now I'm watching an interview with Shukou Murase, the director. Worked on Gundam, Street Fighter II, character design for FFIX, etc. Even back then, he already expressed concern regarding not having enough base animators for an ever increasing demand for anime. We all know how bad things are for animators these days.
Gonna stop with the interview because they just started discussing the final episode. Oops.
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Lordhippos
Pokémon Master
Episode 13
13 unlucky for some, especially if your name is Iggy. This is (was?) the Iggy episode.
Good shout on Iggy going all cogito mode @D1tchd1gger - I hadn't guessed it was so far back he got infected, at best I thought it may have occurred in this episode with his proximity to Pino. The red eyes were very creepy on him!
Oh man I bet poor Vincent was wondering what he'd gotten himself in for, without Iggy around to unquestionably do everything for her, she turned into a right entitled/pampered princess. I was expecting them to start calling her Hime-sama at any moment. Pino told her quite rightly where to go though, and Vincent was offered the privilege of serving her in the future.
Iggy going off the rails was glorious to watch, and how he basically kidnapped Re-i to protect her was of course backwards, but to him it was the best choice to make at the time. Look at how that backfired though, he was talking about keeping her safe at the exact same time she had a totally different autoreiv after her. Funny how the autoreivs get an idea into their head and they can't work it out logically to see that it's a bad course of action to follow, it seems everyone wants a piece of Re-i.
At least Iggy got rid of both himself as a problem as well as the other autoreiv, but his duality was clear, he hated Re-i for taking him for granted, but at the same time he seemed to know nothing else and had no other "reason to live".
I absolutely guessed that Vincent would hand the gun back to Re-i, he wants her to trust him, but I don't think that's enough to gain her trust. Even so, it was a very Vincent thing to do. Vincent himself is a super powerful almost god like character but he basically worships Re-i above himself as far as I can see.
I loved how she excused this excuse not once, but twice this episode!
I wonder what she's reading, maybe it's "Do androids dream of Electric sheep?" Or perhaps the multi-printed award winning hit, "Vincent Law".
I don't know if it's the best comparison or example, but take the old dude from Shawshank Redemption, who was institutionalised, he gained his freedom and release, but ultimately he was happier when caged, and the thought of using his freedom and enjoying it just didn't occur to him.
I try and avoid reading any material or watching extras etc until I'm done with the show, just in case don't want to spoil it for myself.
13 unlucky for some, especially if your name is Iggy. This is (was?) the Iggy episode.
Good shout on Iggy going all cogito mode @D1tchd1gger - I hadn't guessed it was so far back he got infected, at best I thought it may have occurred in this episode with his proximity to Pino. The red eyes were very creepy on him!
Oh man I bet poor Vincent was wondering what he'd gotten himself in for, without Iggy around to unquestionably do everything for her, she turned into a right entitled/pampered princess. I was expecting them to start calling her Hime-sama at any moment. Pino told her quite rightly where to go though, and Vincent was offered the privilege of serving her in the future.
Iggy going off the rails was glorious to watch, and how he basically kidnapped Re-i to protect her was of course backwards, but to him it was the best choice to make at the time. Look at how that backfired though, he was talking about keeping her safe at the exact same time she had a totally different autoreiv after her. Funny how the autoreivs get an idea into their head and they can't work it out logically to see that it's a bad course of action to follow, it seems everyone wants a piece of Re-i.
At least Iggy got rid of both himself as a problem as well as the other autoreiv, but his duality was clear, he hated Re-i for taking him for granted, but at the same time he seemed to know nothing else and had no other "reason to live".
I absolutely guessed that Vincent would hand the gun back to Re-i, he wants her to trust him, but I don't think that's enough to gain her trust. Even so, it was a very Vincent thing to do. Vincent himself is a super powerful almost god like character but he basically worships Re-i above himself as far as I can see.
I loved how she excused this excuse not once, but twice this episode!
I wonder what she's reading, maybe it's "Do androids dream of Electric sheep?" Or perhaps the multi-printed award winning hit, "Vincent Law".
I don't know if it's the best comparison or example, but take the old dude from Shawshank Redemption, who was institutionalised, he gained his freedom and release, but ultimately he was happier when caged, and the thought of using his freedom and enjoying it just didn't occur to him.
I try and avoid reading any material or watching extras etc until I'm done with the show, just in case don't want to spoil it for myself.
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João Gomes
Thousand Master
Yeah, everyone's putting the moves on Re-i, with Iggy going the extra, creepy, good-guy mile lol
these dudes need to chill, get your assses to Mosk and give me some answers and keep 'em in your pants. Well, Iggy doesn't have a whole lot left to keep, I guess... Nor a whole lot of pants.
Vincent behaving like a teenager around Re-i is silly, but nothing too bad. I like that he's more aggressive without necessarily going full proxy.
PS : Pino politely telling Re-i to f off was amazing
PPS: Is the series going to force Vince and Re-l on us?
these dudes need to chill, get your assses to Mosk and give me some answers and keep 'em in your pants. Well, Iggy doesn't have a whole lot left to keep, I guess... Nor a whole lot of pants.
Vincent behaving like a teenager around Re-i is silly, but nothing too bad. I like that he's more aggressive without necessarily going full proxy.
PS : Pino politely telling Re-i to f off was amazing
PPS: Is the series going to force Vince and Re-l on us?
Lordhippos
Pokémon Master
I don't really get a sense of chemistry between them, more like Re-i has started to show her true colours and Vincent is the love-sick puppy dog. I hope Re-i gets back to Romdeau and starts a relationship with Daedalus instead just to mess with us 
João Gomes
Thousand Master
I don't really get a sense of chemistry between them, more like Re-i has started to show her true colours and Vincent is the love-sick puppy dog. I hope Re-i gets back to Romdeau and starts a relationship with Daedalus instead just to mess with us
Nor do I, but there's still a few episodes left, I hope it won't happen! At least at this point it wouldn't be very interesting...
In fact, I'd be cool if there was no romance here, but we'll see... Daedalus is also a creep. Is there any normal guy in this series lol
Birdie Num Num
Straw Hat Pirate
Episodes 11-13
Vincent struggles with identity crisis and it goes all John Malkovich.
Vincent confessions to Re-l, but will she love him back? At the moment, doesn't look likely since she said she's gonna shoot him later.
I thought Iggy was infected, when he clenched fist and it sounded like he was going to tell Re-l before he was cut off, but I didn't know it happened so far back. I thought it happened when they met the big proxy and their robot companion. And then he went out with a bang.. well two if you count the shotgun. At least Re-l found someone else to do her hair. She is rather spoiled.
Vincent struggles with identity crisis and it goes all John Malkovich.
Vincent confessions to Re-l, but will she love him back? At the moment, doesn't look likely since she said she's gonna shoot him later.
I thought Iggy was infected, when he clenched fist and it sounded like he was going to tell Re-l before he was cut off, but I didn't know it happened so far back. I thought it happened when they met the big proxy and their robot companion. And then he went out with a bang.. well two if you count the shotgun. At least Re-l found someone else to do her hair. She is rather spoiled.
Lordhippos
Pokémon Master
WMD
Guild Member
What's interesting is that the little autoreiv only got the idea of revenge from Iggy talking about getting revenge on Vincent. If he hadn't spoken in front of them then they wouldn't have come after Re-l. So in a really dark and twisted way Iggy's death is a resentment filled redemption for putting her in danger in the first place.
Also Travis Willingham's performance as Iggy is off the chart exceptional in this episode. To the point it offends me theres any other langauge versions of it (I exaggerate of course [but not really]). But it's one of the very best dub performances I've ever heard. The switching back and forth from love and care to rage and disgust is phenomenally performed. Even if you hate dubs you couldn't but marvel at how well this episode is done.
WMD
Guild Member
Episode 14
So many great episodes in this show. I absolutely love the way this episode is constructed with the weird scenes at the start where characters behaviours seem contradictory- it helps to hide the ruse that Re-l probably would behave like that to spite Vincent if she got annoyed.
As events start to spiral and the tension ratchets it becomes apparent they are not really alone and Vincent has to confront another facet of his personality. This time about the faces and personas we present to the world and others. It's such a normal human thing that we tailor ourselves to the situation and those around us. Who I am at work is not quite the same as who I am with my best mates. It's why mob mentality is a thing. And it's fascinating to see it examined from this "non-human" Proxy perspective.
In the end Vincent learns that simply hiding oneself will never achieve anything. Not happiness, not acceptance, not community. Hes in the process of rebuilding and reinventing himself and he has to make it count.
So many great episodes in this show. I absolutely love the way this episode is constructed with the weird scenes at the start where characters behaviours seem contradictory- it helps to hide the ruse that Re-l probably would behave like that to spite Vincent if she got annoyed.
As events start to spiral and the tension ratchets it becomes apparent they are not really alone and Vincent has to confront another facet of his personality. This time about the faces and personas we present to the world and others. It's such a normal human thing that we tailor ourselves to the situation and those around us. Who I am at work is not quite the same as who I am with my best mates. It's why mob mentality is a thing. And it's fascinating to see it examined from this "non-human" Proxy perspective.
In the end Vincent learns that simply hiding oneself will never achieve anything. Not happiness, not acceptance, not community. Hes in the process of rebuilding and reinventing himself and he has to make it count.
Dai
Death Scythe
Episode 14
The abandoned supermarket is one of the cornerstones of post-apocalyptic fiction, a familiar place where the normal rules no longer apply and you can do whatever you want. It's this aspect that helps hide the subtle personality differences of the doppelganger proxy in this dream-like episode. Pretending to be someone else is only a temporary solution though; in the long-run people see through it. Repeat that cycle too many times and you end up alone.
It's interesting that the various cities feel like they come from different time periods. Romdo is the most technologically advanced one we've seen, the abandoned town full of robots and this one look contemporary, Charos had an odd mix of contemporary and medieval, and the giant's had advanced technology buried in nature. Did the cities always look like that or was a more a question of the stage of development they reached when their populations died out?
Health advisory: only beings with amrita cells can survive Pino's cooking.
The abandoned supermarket is one of the cornerstones of post-apocalyptic fiction, a familiar place where the normal rules no longer apply and you can do whatever you want. It's this aspect that helps hide the subtle personality differences of the doppelganger proxy in this dream-like episode. Pretending to be someone else is only a temporary solution though; in the long-run people see through it. Repeat that cycle too many times and you end up alone.
It's interesting that the various cities feel like they come from different time periods. Romdo is the most technologically advanced one we've seen, the abandoned town full of robots and this one look contemporary, Charos had an odd mix of contemporary and medieval, and the giant's had advanced technology buried in nature. Did the cities always look like that or was a more a question of the stage of development they reached when their populations died out?
Health advisory: only beings with amrita cells can survive Pino's cooking.
Birdie Num Num
Straw Hat Pirate
Episode 14
An Among Us situation. Good thing Re-l figured out how to tell them a part.. unless they are not the real Vincent and Re-l. Dun Dun Dun.
An Among Us situation. Good thing Re-l figured out how to tell them a part.. unless they are not the real Vincent and Re-l. Dun Dun Dun.
Lordhippos
Pokémon Master
Episode 14
I mentioned this before but trippy episodes are not my forte, this is the second one we've had so far. I think it's because I am quite a logical person, I don't tend to really get the reasons behind all of the different scenarios we see play out.
I kind of got what was going on here but at the same time I didn't, for instance, was the town real? Was the super market being that well stocked with goods that hadn't gone off real? Was the other proxy real? and if so how did it die? All of the repeating sequences with Vincent meeting Re-i as he got out of the water meant if there was another proxy and it died, I apparently missed it.
Pino MVP again though, providing nutritious meals, perfectly mimicking a member of staff welcoming people in her store, saving Re-i from drowning, and figuring out the duplicates.
Yeah I think everyone does that to some degree, put a mask on, and then you have to wonder what is the real you, there exists probably lots of different versions of you as perceived by other people.
Yeah it's certainly an interesting one, and I hope we learn a bit more about how the cities and the proxies are tied together. One pattern we've had to date is that the Proxies tend to be intertwined with the cities, even the bestial one was found near the remains of the cloning vats.
I mentioned this before but trippy episodes are not my forte, this is the second one we've had so far. I think it's because I am quite a logical person, I don't tend to really get the reasons behind all of the different scenarios we see play out.
I kind of got what was going on here but at the same time I didn't, for instance, was the town real? Was the super market being that well stocked with goods that hadn't gone off real? Was the other proxy real? and if so how did it die? All of the repeating sequences with Vincent meeting Re-i as he got out of the water meant if there was another proxy and it died, I apparently missed it.
Pino MVP again though, providing nutritious meals, perfectly mimicking a member of staff welcoming people in her store, saving Re-i from drowning, and figuring out the duplicates.
Yeah I think everyone does that to some degree, put a mask on, and then you have to wonder what is the real you, there exists probably lots of different versions of you as perceived by other people.
Yeah it's certainly an interesting one, and I hope we learn a bit more about how the cities and the proxies are tied together. One pattern we've had to date is that the Proxies tend to be intertwined with the cities, even the bestial one was found near the remains of the cloning vats.
Episode 14
"So long as we're here, we will continue to create misery."
As a little bit of a clarification on something, the Blu-ray subtitles near the end of the episode seem to have completely missed the context of what Re-l and Vincent are talking about.
Re-l: "Pino and I could never have retrieved these."
Vincent: "Well, it helped that they didn't drift far away."
What? "These"? "They"? It's the Centzon that they're talking about.
Vincent waded into the water to retrieve the ship after it had been set adrift by the doppelganger Proxy.
It's a complex episode, though, so I shouldn't be too critical of the translation job. That said, the mistranslation makes the above part of the episode rather more difficult to decipher, so...
But hey, you've got to love Vincent's pouting face near the end. It's brilliantly drawn!
"So long as we're here, we will continue to create misery."
As a little bit of a clarification on something, the Blu-ray subtitles near the end of the episode seem to have completely missed the context of what Re-l and Vincent are talking about.
Re-l: "Pino and I could never have retrieved these."
Vincent: "Well, it helped that they didn't drift far away."
What? "These"? "They"? It's the Centzon that they're talking about.
Vincent waded into the water to retrieve the ship after it had been set adrift by the doppelganger Proxy.
It's a complex episode, though, so I shouldn't be too critical of the translation job. That said, the mistranslation makes the above part of the episode rather more difficult to decipher, so...
But hey, you've got to love Vincent's pouting face near the end. It's brilliantly drawn!
WMD
Guild Member
That's really odd. In the dub they explicitly say it's the ship he went to get so they definitely knew the context in translating it but then didnt make it clear in the subs.What? "These"? "They"? It's the Centzon that they're talking about.
indeed 
WMD
Guild Member
Episode 15
What is the name of this song? Cue opening credits. Brilliant.
This was the most difficult episode for me the first time I watched but on repeat viewings I really have come to love it. The show is generally full of dense philosophy and high concept epsiodes but with is one of the most out there I've ever seen!
The way it manages to drop so much historical lore and world building in this zany quiz setting is pretty remarkable. It also raises new questions about this Proxy One.
I love when we first see Re-l and Pino in the spectator tubes that Re-l is visibly angry and Pino is just having a blast. It makes me laugh every time! And I really like the reuse of the Vincent eyes metaphor where they are closed for most of the epsiode while he is confused and doing badly but then start opening more and more in the final round as he pushes for victory and gets answers right.
What is the name of this song? Cue opening credits. Brilliant.
This was the most difficult episode for me the first time I watched but on repeat viewings I really have come to love it. The show is generally full of dense philosophy and high concept epsiodes but with is one of the most out there I've ever seen!
The way it manages to drop so much historical lore and world building in this zany quiz setting is pretty remarkable. It also raises new questions about this Proxy One.
I love when we first see Re-l and Pino in the spectator tubes that Re-l is visibly angry and Pino is just having a blast. It makes me laugh every time! And I really like the reuse of the Vincent eyes metaphor where they are closed for most of the epsiode while he is confused and doing badly but then start opening more and more in the final round as he pushes for victory and gets answers right.
Episode 15
"You never know when it's going to be 'goodbye', and for me, that moment is now."
What an ingenious way to splice in a heavy slab of initially impenetrable exposition, but... my god, did Vincent really used to look like that?
The first time I watched the episode, I had completely forgotten that Vincent started out looking like that, and it was a pretty big shock to the system! This episode plays almost like Vincent's journey of discovery so far in microcosm, with his character evolution flashed before us in time lapse.
Just... brilliance for me. After the fragmented study of identity and the self last time out, and a replication of a TV quiz show (of all things!) this time... where on Earth is the series going to go next?
As our recently departed host MCQ would perhaps have said "Stay tuned to find out!"
"You never know when it's going to be 'goodbye', and for me, that moment is now."
I can absolutely understand that but, purely personally, I absolutely loved this episode the very first time I saw it. It's hands-down one of my favourite episodes in anything I've ever watched, a completely out-of-left-field, genre-defying delight.
What an ingenious way to splice in a heavy slab of initially impenetrable exposition, but... my god, did Vincent really used to look like that?
The first time I watched the episode, I had completely forgotten that Vincent started out looking like that, and it was a pretty big shock to the system! This episode plays almost like Vincent's journey of discovery so far in microcosm, with his character evolution flashed before us in time lapse.
Just... brilliance for me. After the fragmented study of identity and the self last time out, and a replication of a TV quiz show (of all things!) this time... where on Earth is the series going to go next?
As our recently departed host MCQ would perhaps have said "Stay tuned to find out!"
Dai
Death Scythe
Episode 15
I'd forgotten what a massive infodump this episode is. The ideal way to convey this kind of information is to have the characters discover it organically, and potentially in a visual way. Simply stating exposition in a chunk of dialogue is usually dry and boring. In this case it seems like the writer set himself the challenge of doing a whole episode of exposition in the most bizarre, original, and entertaining way possible, and mostly pulls it off. It also plays with the viewer by not giving complete answers, such as the scene talking about the artificial wombs, which fades out in the middle while Raul and his entourage discuss the broadcast. It's not afraid to give the fourth wall a good kick with that song question. And the whole tease about Proxy One feels downright mischievous.
MCQ presumably comes from Multiple Choice Question.
I'd forgotten what a massive infodump this episode is. The ideal way to convey this kind of information is to have the characters discover it organically, and potentially in a visual way. Simply stating exposition in a chunk of dialogue is usually dry and boring. In this case it seems like the writer set himself the challenge of doing a whole episode of exposition in the most bizarre, original, and entertaining way possible, and mostly pulls it off. It also plays with the viewer by not giving complete answers, such as the scene talking about the artificial wombs, which fades out in the middle while Raul and his entourage discuss the broadcast. It's not afraid to give the fourth wall a good kick with that song question. And the whole tease about Proxy One feels downright mischievous.
MCQ presumably comes from Multiple Choice Question.