CLIMATEGATE!!! The Global Warming Agenda exposed.

[shira]

But IMO, those who do try to force their values on others do deserve to be insulted. Insulting someone because they're a religious fanatic is not the same as insulting a religion.

What i'm saying is even religious "fanatics" are an overwhelming minority. Most people take religion as something to just help guide their daily habits, and to give them strength when in times of need. To me, a religious "fanatic" is someone who misinterprets their Holy book in one way or another. This either leads to them leading a very questionable lifestyle or committing terrorist acts, in my eyes. (By a "questionable" lifestyle, I just mean something that wouldn't be considered sane by any stretch. Preaching that someone will die, or believing they will die, for a "minor sin" such as stealing a bar of chocolate or something).

As for questioning rather than insulting, the same applies. I don't think Atheists should go up to quietly religious people and start deconstructing their beliefs, that would be just as bad as the religious fundamentalists. But when we're talking about vocal fanatics who do start actually having an influence on people, there has to be something to counter that.

Something to "counter that"? Tell me, why shouldn't someone who feels they've had an experience in which God has helped them be allowed to tell the world? Yes- enforcing their beliefs on others is bad, however, just telling the world that they've had a religious experience isn't. The guy in the street who's shouting about how God helped him, I don't really have a problem with that guy. Yeah, assholes who call you over saying "Believe this" are annoying, and are in the wrong for seemingly commanding people on how they should live. Again though, not many people in the religion do this. For Memorium to say; "I think we should insult most, if not all religions", that implies that maybe even 51% of the religion would be preaching/enforcing values/leading a radical and "fanatically religious" lifestyle. Surely you can see that an overwhelming majority of religious people aren't like any of those stereotypes?

Otherwise you just let them propagate their theories which often encourage closed-mindedness and deferring to a higher authority. It might be upsetting to quietly religious people to see their beliefs debunked publicly but it has to be done for the sake of reason and logic winning out against blind faith and superstition. We don't want to go back to the days of witch hunts and the inquisition.

I gotta say this comment bugs me, hence putting it in a part of its own. This whole "encourages close-mindedness", I don't really think that is necessarily true. To be honest, it could be argued quite the opposite. These people are open to the fact there could be a God(s). Surely, this alone shows they are, in-fact, very open minded. One could argue, it's even artistic, how they're mind is so open, to think outside the box, and to hold belief in things they cant see and touch - And on that, you could also argue that believing in any religious values could be argued the same way as believing in any emotion. You can't touch or see "love". We all have different ideas of what we would like to love as well- some of us are homosexual, some prefer brunettes to blonds, etc. Thing is, many people are affected by love everyday (due to having a partner, being married, etc.) so it would be silly to insult them for 'believing they love someone'.

Religion is the same in many senses, it's all about believing in something you can't see or touch. Many people believe religion does affect them everyday, and that God is there to help them through each day. That is why they are religious. I don't think that is close minded or ridiculous, personally.

And as for having their theories 'debunked' publically because you don't want society to go back to Witch hunts etc, I just think that's silly. Things couldn't go that far anymore because we're in a multi-cultural state! Not all the religions will agree on what defines a witch, and what about Pagans etc. who would openly say they're interested in Witchcraft? It's too late to go back to those days man. Plus with science, we could probably use scientific tests to find out whether they were witches, instead of "dunk them in water" and so on.

Also you'll find atheists are the worst for enforcing their beliefs from my experience. People seem to take some sick joy in going up to anyone religious and instantly trying to debunk their religion without being provoked to by the religious individual. Many also have this Superiority Complex over anyone who is religious, claiming that they have the "Obviously correct" belief. I know that isn't only in atheism, and some religious people will have this complex as well, but it really bugs me.

 

[Tachi]

He means that "If by wasting energy it makes it Snow, i'll waste energy". This would be because Tachi likes snow, or so I should imagine.


Spyro hit the nail on the head....if wasting energy makes it a white xmas...then i'll do it without a second thought.

 

[ayase]

even religious "fanatics" are an overwhelming minority. Most people take religion as something to just help guide their daily habits, and to give them strength when in times of need. To me, a religious "fanatic" is someone who misinterprets their Holy book in one way or another. This either leads to them leading a very questionable lifestyle or committing terrorist acts, in my eyes. (By a "questionable" lifestyle, I just mean something that wouldn't be considered sane by any stretch. Preaching that someone will die, or believing they will die, for a "minor sin" such as stealing a bar of chocolate or something).

Yeah, assholes who call you over saying "Believe this" are annoying, and are in the wrong for seemingly commanding people on how they should live. Again though, not many people in the religion do this. For Memorium to say; "I think we should insult most, if not all religions", that implies that maybe even 51% of the religion would be preaching/enforcing values/leading a radical and "fanatically religious" lifestyle. Surely you can see that an overwhelming majority of religious people aren't like any of those stereotypes?

I do realise that most religious people are not threatening or harmful towards others - however, the vocal minority is always the section which gets itself in the public eye and they are the ones who shape not only others' opinions of their religion, but are most likely to influence other members of that religion in a negative, dangerous way. The best way forward would of course be for the peaceful, quiet majority of a religion to stand up against the hateful minority twisting their religion and using it for their own ends - but I don't see this happening (perhaps because people don't want to go against others of the same religion for fear of being seen as blasphemous, I don't know). And I think that because that isn't happening, the only other people who have an interest in challenging them are Atheists and extremists of other religions.

Otherwise you just let them propagate their theories which often encourage closed-mindedness and deferring to a higher authority. It might be upsetting to quietly religious people to see their beliefs debunked publicly but it has to be done for the sake of reason and logic winning out against blind faith and superstition. We don't want to go back to the days of witch hunts and the inquisition.

I gotta say this comment bugs me, hence putting it in a part of its own. This whole "encourages close-mindedness", I don't really think that is necessarily true. To be honest, it could be argued quite the opposite. These people are open to the fact there could be a God(s). Surely, this alone shows they are, in-fact, very open minded. One could argue, it's even artistic, how they're mind is so open, to think outside the box, and to hold belief in things they cant see and touch - And on that, you could also argue that believing in any religious values could be argued the same way as believing in any emotion. You can't touch or see "love". We all have different ideas of what we would like to love as well- some of us are homosexual, some prefer brunettes to blonds, etc. Thing is, many people are affected by love everyday (due to having a partner, being married, etc.) so it would be silly to insult them for 'believing they love someone'.

Religion is the same in many senses, it's all about believing in something you can't see or touch. Many people believe religion does affect them everyday, and that God is there to help them through each day. That is why they are religious. I don't think that is close minded or ridiculous, personally.

Ah, you see you're talking about faith. I'm talking about Religion. Faith on it's own is fine, people of faith can be open-minded. I personally don't have a lot of it, in anything - God, love, etc. I think most of it can be explained by scientific means. I perhaps don't choose to view the universe as such a mechanical construction on a day to day basis, but ultimately I think that's what it is - what we are, even. A machine composed of definable parts (albeit subatomic particles). In terms of emotion and thought I think we're a product of our genes and experiences but other than that I don't know. But then I don't claim to know, I think we'll find out eventually if we keep looking. In that view I consider myself quite open-minded. But Religion is close-minded because it lays out laws and absolutes based on faith and faith alone. God created the world in seven days. You can't work on a Sunday because God said so. You have to be circumcised because God said so. Women have to cover their heads because God said so. That, frankly, is ridiculous. Religious people choose to observe these laws because they believe God said so - we have no proof either that there is a God or that they ever communicated with anyone. So why do they believe God said so? Because someone else told them he did - and there's the deferring to a higher authority. Not to God, but to the Church.

And as for having their theories 'debunked' publically because you don't want society to go back to Witch hunts etc, I just think that's silly. Things couldn't go that far anymore because we're in a multi-cultural state! Not all the religions will agree on what defines a witch, and what about Pagans etc. who would openly say they're interested in Witchcraft? It's too late to go back to those days man. Plus with science, we could probably use scientific tests to find out whether they were witches, instead of "dunk them in water" and so on.

Also you'll find atheists are the worst for enforcing their beliefs from my experience. People seem to take some sick joy in going up to anyone religious and instantly trying to debunk their religion without being provoked to by the religious individual. Many also have this Superiority Complex over anyone who is religious, claiming that they have the "Obviously correct" belief. I know that isn't only in atheism, and some religious people will have this complex as well, but it really bugs me.

But I think a lot of Atheists don't understand for the life of them why people believe in anything without proof. I don't either, but I do also feel sorry for people who are actually upset by their religion being attacked when they personally aren't hurting anyone. The ones to blame for the fact that Atheists feel the need to do this though are those same small groups of fundamentalists who are actually working to get religion incorporated into things like government, laws and education (perhaps witch-hunts was a step too far, you know I have a tendency to over dramatise) in a secular society it doesn't belong there at all. I don't think many Atheists attack religion for the fun of it (we can't be stereotyped either remember ) they do it because they see it as actually posing a threat to their freedom. Which I don't think is an overreaction. Look at Iran. Look at why abortion and gay marriage is illegal in some parts of America - that's all the work of the Religious Right interfering in politics and influencing religious people to vote against these things.