Belladonna of Sadness packaging artwork discussion

IncendiaryLemon said:
It's more the fact that the people who like this sort of thing have a kind of elitism about them, as if liking some obscure 70s art piece makes them better than people who like K-On or something. It just really pisses me off.
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The irony here being that, right now anyway, you're the only person here judging others for liking something :p Different strokes for different folks. I don't think I'm better than anyone else for liking/disliking something - I've spent many hours giving stuff like Haruhi Suzumiya, Nichijou, Prison School, Love Hina and Nisekoi a go. I won't say I've wasted my time, because you have to try something to know you don't like it.

Liking/disliking a style of artwork is entirely subjective, but I personally think Belladonna is filled with ravishingly beautiful imagery that I'd happily have framed up on my wall. Exhibit A...
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There's plenty of 'uglier', more disturbing imagery due to the subject matter as well but even that is very impressively drawn.
 
qaiz said:
Although I feel that that statement is aimed at me, I nevertheless would like to see these so called people that you speak of because I think that a lot of it is in your head, you need to relax and stop being so negative! Those kinds of people always exist, you shouldn't think too much about said people and you shouldn't let such people cloud your view on things. "I don't watch Anime because anime fans are weird" is also a thought that a lot of "normal" people have in case you didn't realize. Anime and its fans are stigmatized and the medium is viewed as something that is indulged by man-children and people with no social life but I don't let that preconceived notion stop me from enjoying the wonderful world of japanimation because doing so would be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Good movie are good my dude, whether it was released in 1973 or 2017.
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It wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, it was just a broad statement about the kind of people who like this kind of thing. You don't even have to go far to see it, literally in this thread, right now, all the people who are just dumping all over Charlotte's art are saying it's bad because it's "generic" and stuff like that, as if that makes it bad because it follows general artistic conventions, whereas Belladonna is something to be hung in a museum because it looks vaguely artsy. Perhaps it is just in my head, maybe I'm an insane person, but any and all discussion about this film as being some sort of masterpiece just really rubs me up the wrong way because of the vibes the kind of people talking about it give out. I mean, of course none of them would admit they think less of people who don't like it and prefer more conventional things, but I'm sure as hell that they think it .
 
Well, at least you're being open with your prejudices. I'm not going to admit that, deep down, I think of everyone who buys Prison School as untermenschen... :confused:

The thing is that snobbery works both ways - I've experienced much more derision for making people endure The Tree of Life or Inherent Vice than I think I've ever given out for having to sit through the most recent Marvel film. 'Pretentious' is the favourite word that these anti-non-mainstream types like to use - regardless of whether or not that's actually the case.

There's nothing wrong with following convention (when it comes to art, when it comes to plot there's little point in repetition), but I think originality should be appreciated. It's how things progress.
 
It kind of went like this:

Ferensviel: This looks great!
IL: I don't think you can say that.
*people say why, and that to them it looks better than conventional modern anime artwork*
IL: Now you're insulting conventional art!

Not trying to get at you Lemon, but we're just reacting to the catalysts we're being given here. I said I didn't 'like' the movie but highbrow or otherwise it's a simple fact that it's unique, daring and really elaborately drawn. I can easily understand why someone might run a mile from the pure 70s aesthetic distilled down into a film full of sex, violence, misery and dramatic music - it's never going to be a mainstream must-see film and isn't trying to be - but at the same time moaning that anyone that likes it is just being pretentious isn't going to go well. I seem to recall a similar discussion with another user a while back where I felt it was unfair that prejudices about a show's fans get in the way of a viewer's opinions on the show itself.

I openly like trashy conventional things (Miracle Train must be licensed one day and I recently said that SukaSuka was one of my picks of the season... despite it being a parade of doe-eyed school-aged girls with a generic-looking male lead). At the same time I acknowledge that Belladonna of Sadness is an interesting, important piece of cinema that deserves praise for managing to offer such a unique art style even for its time; if you're paranoid that its fans have latched onto it to pretend to like it in order to lord over other fans then you have to accept that's your delusion because it is possible to simply enjoy the movie without that kind of agenda.

I think the art style is amazing. Not because I'm pretentious or highbrow or blind, but because it shows the ugly beauty of highly sexualised adult women without infantilising people, and in a world filled with gritty teal/orange-tinted action films Belladonna throws colour around like it's going out of fashion. It doesn't really seem worth knocking it just for the sake of knocking it.

R
 
Still unsure if I want to see Belladonna of Sadness or not, but it's the subject matter that puts me off, not the artwork.

Edit because I like soundbites: I think you can appreciate the grindhouse as much as the arthouse - the two need not be mutually exclusive.
 
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crashmatt said:
Belladonna just looks weird and the trailer is rather trippy (it the 70's after all). Not my thing at all. It also screems hipster, im sure its a good film in its own right.
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I had every intention of seeing Belladonna at Scotland Loves Anime last year. Until I watched the trailer on the event's website that is. I abruptly changed my mind after that!

It just looked to me like plugging directly into someone's LSD-induced nightmare or something. I just... couldn't bear the thought of actually sitting through the whole thing after that. The whole atmosphere and aesthetic of it just rubbed me up the wrong way, I'm afraid!
 
Rui said:
It kind of went like this:

Ferensviel: This looks great!
IL: I don't think you can say that.
*people say why, and that to them it looks better than conventional modern anime artwork*
IL: Now you're insulting conventional art!

Not trying to get at you Lemon, but we're just reacting to the catalysts we're being given here. I said I didn't 'like' the movie but highbrow or otherwise it's a simple fact that it's unique, daring and really elaborately drawn. I can easily understand why someone might run a mile from the pure 70s aesthetic distilled down into a film full of sex, violence, misery and dramatic music - it's never going to be a mainstream must-see film and isn't trying to be - but at the same time moaning that anyone that likes it is just being pretentious isn't going to go well. I seem to recall a similar discussion with another user a while back where I felt it was unfair that prejudices about a show's fans get in the way of a viewer's opinions on the show itself.

I openly like trashy conventional things (Miracle Train must be licensed one day and I recently said that SukaSuka was one of my picks of the season... despite it being a parade of doe-eyed school-aged girls with a generic-looking male lead). At the same time I acknowledge that Belladonna of Sadness is an interesting, important piece of cinema that deserves praise for managing to offer such a unique art style even for its time; if you're paranoid that its fans have latched onto it to pretend to like it in order to lord over other fans then you have to accept that's your delusion because it is possible to simply enjoy the movie without that kind of agenda.

I think the art style is amazing. Not because I'm pretentious or highbrow or blind, but because it shows the ugly beauty of highly sexualised adult women without infantilising people, and in a world filled with gritty teal/orange-tinted action films Belladonna throws colour around like it's going out of fashion. It doesn't really seem worth knocking it just for the sake of knocking it.

R
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I don't think I ever tried to say people couldn't like this film, nor am I suggesting that people are only pretending to like the film in an attempt to seem superior to others. What I was trying to say is that I think the kinds of people who do like stuff like this are the kind who naturally look down on others for liking more 'casual' or 'mainstream' things. Perhaps I am being delusional, I won't disagree, but that's how I tend to read into these kind of people. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see anything that seems to suggest otherwise.
 
Well I can only talk for myself here, but all of my top 5 favourite anime are very 'mainstream' or 'casual' (Madoka Magica, Fate UBW, Re:Zero, Azumanga Daioh, Little Witch Academia) and enjoying the art style of Belladonna of Sadness doesn't suddenly make me an elitist snob who looks down on others. I posted with genuine excitement because a film I've been looking forward to watch for years finally has some concept art for its release, that's all :)

Anyway, our slipcover still hasn't grown on me at all. I think the French deluxe release looked absolutely stunning, and even the American Blu-ray looks really classy with a clear amaray:
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I am very much looking forward to this one. Even if I end up not liking it, I still think the film will be a unique experience to say the least. I was a little perturbed when it was pushed back from April, but I'm cool with it as long as it doesn't keep happening.

Our box art doesn't seem to be a patch on the French one, but really it's the movie I'm interested in here, so it's a secondary concern.

IncendiaryLemon said:
@Ferensviel Well, I apologize. I'm far too quick to judge others when I hate being judged myself. I'm an awful hipocrite, I realise in hindsight.
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Personally my own motive for watching this movie is an unrelenting hunger for weird ****. This looks like some grade A, top drawer weird ****. :D
 
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