Bayonetta framerate discussion (split thread)

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Mutsumi

Guild Member
fabricatedlunatic said:
My favourite PS3 game is Yakuza 4. At heart it's an RPG with surprisingly deep action-based combat as its primary component, but it's a game so huge and with so many fun distractions that you're bound to find plenty more worth doing.

Also highly recommended:
Valkyria Chronicles (innovative and beautiful strategy RPG)
Sly Collection (three accessible PS2 platformers tarted up in HD)
Uncharted 1 & 2 (spectacular cinematic action games)

Jambo said:
Bayonetta for some action based good times.
Bayonetta is brilliant but seeing as you have access to both HD consoles I'd recommend the 360 version. The game was developed for the 360 then apparently given a quick and dirty PS3 port, and the results were not good.

I've played the PS3 port, and the only notable differences were that prior to an update released over a year ago, the PS3 version had some bad loading times, and the colours are not as bright, a bit like comparing US TV and UK TV.

And apparently the frame rate is better on the 360 version, according to the link above. Didn't know that until today, and never noticed anything bad about the frame rate when playing.

You are better off committing to one console. PS3. Especially since the 360 has reached it's limit, while the PS3 is still improving and surpassing. Plus you get free online gaming. If you pay for Xbox Live, then get into an RPG for a month or so, you've just wasted money paying for a service you've not been using.
 

Shirayuri

Shinigami
Mutsumi said:
I've played the PS3 port, and the only notable differences were that prior to an update released over a year ago, the PS3 version had some bad loading times, and the colours are not as bright, a bit like comparing US TV and UK TV.

And apparently the frame rate is better on the 360 version, according to the link above. Didn't know that until today, and never noticed anything bad about the frame rate when playing.

You are better off committing to one console. PS3. Especially since the 360 has reached it's limit, while the PS3 is still improving and surpassing. Plus you get free online gaming. If you pay for Xbox Live, then get into an RPG for a month or so, you've just wasted money paying for a service you've not been using.

Same thing here; I've got the update that was released for Bayonetta and I haven't had any issues with it whatsoever.
 
Re: A plea for game suggestions...

Yes, yes, I expect most people who've played the PS3 version of Bayonetta wouldn't notice that it performs significantly worse than the 360 version they haven't played. But since the OP mentioned this:

Jambo said:
However new flatmate has brought along a PS3 and Xbox 360.
It seems logical to recommend the best version.
 

Mutsumi

Guild Member
Re: A plea for game suggestions...

fabricatedlunatic said:
Yes, yes, I expect most people who've played the PS3 version of Bayonetta wouldn't notice that it performs significantly worse than the 360 version they haven't played. But since the OP mentioned this:

Jambo said:
However new flatmate has brought along a PS3 and Xbox 360.
It seems logical to recommend the best version.

Misuse of the word 'significantly' there. The differences are minor, and do not adversely affect gameplay. To me, the logical thing to do is to throw your lot in with the better of the two consoles. Nothing you do in Bayonetta on the 360 will help your trophy score.

Plus, there are more PS3 owners on these forums than 360 owners. Therefore if you focus on PS3 you will have more friends. :D
 
on average it seems that during the most intense gameplay the PS3 game can only manage anything between 30 per cent to 60 per cent of the 360's frame-rate.
Frame-rate is often running at half the speed of the 360 version and the performance impact, combined with the sheer amount of stuff going on, essentially makes the PS3 version more confusing than playable: you're starved of visual feedback.
If you don't think a technical fighting game like Bayonetta running at 30-60 percent of the 360's frame-rate is a significant difference then, yes, I have misused the word. But it seems as though you have an ulterior motive, so I'm not going to bother debating this issue with you any more.

If trophies ( :roll: ) are more important to you than gameplay, Jambo, by all means buy the inferior version.
 

Mutsumi

Guild Member
fabricatedlunatic said:
on average it seems that during the most intense gameplay the PS3 game can only manage anything between 30 per cent to 60 per cent of the 360's frame-rate.
Frame-rate is often running at half the speed of the 360 version and the performance impact, combined with the sheer amount of stuff going on, essentially makes the PS3 version more confusing than playable: you're starved of visual feedback.
If you don't think a technical fighting game like Bayonetta running at 30-60 percent of the 360's frame-rate is a significant difference then, yes, I have misused the word. But it seems as though you have an ulterior motive, so I'm not going to bother debating this issue with you any more.

If trophies ( :roll: ) are more important to you than gameplay, Jambo, by all means buy the inferior version.

I think you are merely speculating on how the framerate would affect gameplay. I've played through and completely the game many time, and I never noticed anything wrong with the framerate at any point. Therefore the gameplay of the PS3 version is equal to the gameplay of the 360 version, though the 360 version may appear slightly smoother.

As for trophies, better to focus on trophies than to split your games between trophies and gamerscore.
 

Jaymii

Baka Ranger
Mutsumi said:
the gameplay of the PS3 version is equal to the gameplay of the 360 version, though the 360 version may appear slightly smoother.
I find this quite a bizarre statement. It doesn't "appear" smoother, it is smoother. That doesn't make it equal. It's not even a deal though. Both, from what I've seen, are perfectly playable.
 

Mutsumi

Guild Member
The framerate different is cosmetic. It does not affect gameplay.


Now, I understand that if a framerate gets too low it can impact on gameplay, but the framerates in question here do not.
 

Shirayuri

Shinigami
Re: A plea for game suggestions...

fabricatedlunatic said:
Yes, yes, I expect most people who've played the PS3 version of Bayonetta wouldn't notice that it performs significantly worse than the 360 version they haven't played.

Sorry; when did I say I haven't played both? Can I not have friends who own the 360 version, and maybe wanted me to help 'em progress?

I'm assuming you have played both to compare?
 
Why would I need to have played both when there's irrefutable proof that I already have the best version?

I'm sure the game is playable on PS3 but the fact is it has half the frame-rate, and seeing the OP is a PC gamer and has access to both HD consoles, I thought this nugget of information might be useful to them. Awfully sorry if I've ruffled a few fanboy feathers in the process*.

Anyway, I shall bow out of this thread now. It's like repeatedly banging your head against a wall.

*I'm not really sorry
 
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Shirayuri

Shinigami
fabricatedlunatic said:
Why would I need to have played both when there's irrefutable proof that I already have the best version?

I'm sure the game is playable on PS3 but the fact is it has half the frame-rate, and seeing the OP is a PC gamer and has access to both HD consoles, I thought this nugget of information might be useful to them. Awfully sorry if I've ruffled a few fanboy feathers in the process*.

Anyway, I shall bow out of this thread now. It's like repeatedly banging your head against a wall.

*I'm not really sorry

All I'm saying is; don't assume I haven't played both. I never said which version he should get, all I said was "Yeah, I've had no issue with the PS3 version". Please don't throw your toys out the pram at me just pointing out I'd played both!
 
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Mutsumi

Guild Member
The 360 version may be better, but you seem to be implying that the PS3 version's lower framerate negatively affects gameplay, which is does not. Without comparing the two versions, you would never even suspect there was something different about the frame rate, because the game plays perfectly. No slowdown or framerate drop when the action gets busy or anything. You come across as a 360 fanboy, nothing more.
 

ilmaestro

State Alchemist
If you personally can't tell the difference between 60fps and not60fps in a fighting game (which Bayonetta essentially is), then you don't really have much place telling people whether it impacts gameplay or not, since a lot of people can and will notice the difference.

It would be like claiming there is no difference between a movie on DVD and BD because your own eyes happen to not be good enough to perceive the extra detail.
 

Lupus

Baka Ranger
Mutsumi said:
You are better off committing to one console. PS3. Especially since the 360 has reached it's limit, while the PS3 is still improving and surpassing. Plus you get free online gaming. If you pay for Xbox Live, then get into an RPG for a month or so, you've just wasted money paying for a service you've not been using.
Are you aware of the PS3 hacking situation? I'm generally curious, because if you are... wat.
 

Mutsumi

Guild Member
ilmaestro said:
If you personally can't tell the difference between 60fps and not60fps in a fighting game (which Bayonetta essentially is), then you don't really have much place telling people whether it impacts gameplay or not, since a lot of people can and will notice the difference.

It would be like claiming there is no difference between a movie on DVD and BD because your own eyes happen to not be good enough to perceive the extra detail.

Who said they couldn't tell the difference? I only said that when playing the PS3 version I did not notice any problems with the framerate, that it did not negatively affect gameplay.

Consider this: does watching something on DVD impact upon your enjoyment of it negatively?

No?

Well that is a perfect example of how something being a lower quality not negatively affecting enjoyment. The difference between the two versions of Bayonetta is nowhere near as great as the different between DVD and Blu-Ray either.
 

ilmaestro

State Alchemist
Mutsumi said:
Who said they couldn't tell the difference? I only said that when playing the PS3 version I did not notice any problems with the framerate, that it did not negatively affect gameplay.
So you are confirming that you are the one who said it? Or not?
 
Okay, now that this thread has been split I will address a couple of points.

Shirayuri said:
all I said was "Yeah, I've had no issue with the PS3 version".
The point of which was what, exactly? You have no issue so there is no issue? The article I linked to proves beyond any doubt that the PS3 version has a lower and more variable frame-rate, as well as worse textures. It speaks for itself. If you think a patch (which was only ever intended to shorten the load times) could fix problems like that then I don't know what to say.

Mutsumi said:
You come across as a 360 fanboy, nothing more.
lol! Because I pointed out an article that proves a specific game runs better on a specific console? And even though I recommended five PS3 games and no 360 games? And even though I've pre-ordered LA Noire on PS3 because it's the lead platform? Clutching at straws much?
 

Shirayuri

Shinigami
fabricatedlunatic said:
The point of which was what, exactly? You have no issue so there is no issue?

Of course not; all I was saying is that I hadn't noticed any issue. I'm not trying to say the PS3 isn't inferior to the 360 one, it is - it's just not that noticable, and has all to no effect on gameplay! But, what I am saying is that, lets say the OP had walked into Game, and saw the PS3 version of Bayonetta for £15, and the X360 for £25; if the OP recalls what Mutsumi and I said, he may choose to save himself £10 by getting the cosmetically slightly inferior version.

Bayonetta isn't new right now, prices will vary store to store; all I was doing is telling the OP that should he choose to go with the PS3 version, he can have the knowledge that I hadn't noticed any difference. Of course, I am but one person- but with Mutsumi also supporting this it gives him more confidence in the reliability of the feedback.
 
Fair enough. I think you're wrong but believe your intentions were noble, and I apologise if I was too aggressive.

Here's the thing, though: whether it has no effect on gameplay depends on who you ask. Some won't notice, some won't care. But some WILL notice and some WILL care, and with no way of knowing into which camp the person asking for recommendations will fall, is it not a better idea to suggest the version universally regarded as the best? I want to help someone not familiar with consoles make an informed choice, and I don't think anecdotal examples that contradict the facts really help.

I see your Mutsumi and raise you:

IGN said:
The PS3 version has a lot of problems, primary among them being the excessive slowdown and loading. During certain scenes of high action, Bayonetta can slow down dramatically, enough to affect the gameplay experience.
Gamespot said:
Unfortunately, as entertaining as the stylish action combat of Bayonetta is, it's plagued by a number of technical issues on the PS3 that distract and spoil some of the fun. Not only are the visuals grainier and more washed out than in its Xbox 360 counterpart, but there are also noticeable frame rate dips that occur when the action gets too heavy.
Giant Bomb said:
Unfortunately, most of the kind words I have for Bayonetta are reserved for the Xbox 360 version, as the PlayStation 3 version suffers from crippling performance issues ... what really kills it is the way the game stutters and chops through the action, dropping frames and bogging down at an almost constant rate. In another, significantly less intense game, it's something I might be able to let slide. But Bayonetta's gameplay, and even its cinematics, put such a premium on speed and precision that the experience on the PlayStation 3 is thoroughly compromised.

AND FINALLY!

(And yes, I am bored.)
 

Shirayuri

Shinigami
fabricatedlunatic said:
I want to help someone not familiar with consoles make an informed choice, and I don't think anecdotal examples that contradict the facts really help.

I suppose this is where our opinions differ; on the note of 'informed choice', I'm trying to inform them of another side. I don't recall ever doubting the 360's version is technically better; I just really don't think it affects gameplay.


fabricatedlunatic said:
IGN said:
The PS3 version has a lot of problems, primary among them being the excessive slowdown and loading. During certain scenes of high action, Bayonetta can slow down dramatically, enough to affect the gameplay experience.
Gamespot said:
Unfortunately, as entertaining as the stylish action combat of Bayonetta is, it's plagued by a number of technical issues on the PS3 that distract and spoil some of the fun. Not only are the visuals grainier and more washed out than in its Xbox 360 counterpart, but there are also noticeable frame rate dips that occur when the action gets too heavy.
Giant Bomb said:
Unfortunately, most of the kind words I have for Bayonetta are reserved for the Xbox 360 version, as the PlayStation 3 version suffers from crippling performance issues ... what really kills it is the way the game stutters and chops through the action, dropping frames and bogging down at an almost constant rate. In another, significantly less intense game, it's something I might be able to let slide. But Bayonetta's gameplay, and even its cinematics, put such a premium on speed and precision that the experience on the PlayStation 3 is thoroughly compromised.

AND FINALLY!

(And yes, I am bored.)

Honestly; i'm really surprised. I mean, I've played through a lot of the game and had no such experience during the game or cutscenes. I'm willing to doubt the reliability of IGN and Gamespot, but am unfamiliar with GiantBomb. I accept the user-review for far more though.

I got the game post-patch; as far as I'm aware it only affected loading times, but is it possible it addressed other issues?
 
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