anime sins?

[Sparrowsabre7]

I don't understand why Black Butler holds any appeal to heterosexual men.

I'll take this as honest curiosity!

Many heterosexual men are relaxed enough to be able to enjoy things not oozing with machismo without having to question themselves.

It's true. I like Ouran. And in MGS I like Raiden more than Snake (not an anime sin, but still somewhat related )

I've never seen a single episode of Dragonball Z.

I also second the 'Ghlibli is overrated' dissenters. Only two SG films have I really genuinely enjoyed. The rest have been "yeah that was good I guess" or "that was pretty dull" and that latter one includes Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away.

 

[teonzo]

Have you ever tried, as a 16 year old male who is overweight and always coming across as a bit weird, having to admit to your young, female ICT teacher that the copy of Tokyo Mew Mew volume 1 she found in her classroom at the end of a previous lesson was yours?

If you lived in a hentai, then this could have been a nice situation.



Teo

 

[teonzo]

@Ayase: You've yet to meet Zin5ki in person then Curious but entertaining is a good way to sum him up Irl.

You mean his avatar is a fake? What a disappointment...



Teo

 

[Professor Irony]

I'll take this as honest curiosity!

I should probably have clarified that one. It's not that I have any problem with men watching shoujo or 'girly' series (I rate Lovely Complex and I liked Ouran well enough), but having had the misfortune to sit through most of the first series of Black Butler, I honestly don't understand what anyone sees in it other than the bishonen character designs.

The characters didn't strike me as anything more than one note stereotypes, direction of the action scenes was woeful and any time the story threatened to go anywhere interesting, the writers saw fit to inflict the most grating, sub carry-on level innuendo on the audience instead. If people want to enjoy it as bishixploitation or even as a cosplay catalogue, I can at least understand that, but any notions that the series has some kind of objective quality to it are completely beyond me.

 

[Joshawott]

Also, I hate Gurren Lagann.

I'm a pervert on the inside. I'm always the first to laugh at sex-related jokes in the house; and I'm always the one to point out innuendos xD

1, Sir i would sooner slap you about the face with my glove than shake your hand. But what reasons do you have for disliking Gurren Lagann?? It's common knowledge around here that im not a fan of mecha, however i thoroughly enjoyed Gurren Lagann.

I purchased the first 2 episodes from iTunes a while ago and watched them both. I just couldn't feel compelled to watch any more; nothing about those episodes drew me in or provided me with any kind of hook. Sure, people say that it gets better later on, but if there's nothing in the first 2 episodes to make me want to watch more, then I won't.

2, I think thats just Par for the Course of being a guy, there tends to be one who constantly points out sexual innuendo or puns of a sex related topic to the others, so long as you don't start pointing them out infront of your future mother inlaw (as i have a horrible habit of doing) you'll be fine, but can you blame me when she's from liverpool and saying "french stick" sounds like she's saying "french dick"? (Tallywacker for the kids of the forum)

Fair enough xD.

Have you ever tried, as a 16 year old male who is overweight and always coming across as a bit weird, having to admit to your young, female ICT teacher that the copy of Tokyo Mew Mew volume 1 she found in her classroom at the end of a previous lesson was yours?

If you lived in a hentai, then this could have been a nice situation.

Teo

Shame I don't [/foreveralone].

 

[Tachi]

I purchased the first 2 episodes from iTunes a while ago and watched them both. I just couldn't feel compelled to watch any more; nothing about those episodes drew me in or provided me with any kind of hook. Sure, people say that it gets better later on, but if there's nothing in the first 2 episodes to make me want to watch more, then I won't.

Okay, if anything i'll say give it a go - you can buy a second hand copy online for quite cheap these days and after the first volume i can confirm with 100% certainty that you'll be hooked. The beginning (two/three eps) starts off slow but from then onwards it just spirals up into something you don't want to put down, I had the same urge to keep watching Gurren Lagann that i've had with Soul Eater. Be warned though, it does get darker as the series progresses and by Volume 3 you may even fight back tears.

If you can sit and watch the volumes in full sittings the emotions will hit you, the spirit speaches and build up works very well, not your average cheese (IMO)

Shame I don't [/foreveralone].

Never seen the meme "i've seen enough hentai to know where this is going"

Perhaps you should count your blessings lol.

 

[alexrose1uk]

Also, I hate Gurren Lagann.

I don't HATE Gurren Lagaan, but I do fall into the group that just isn't amazingly fond of it. I apologise that I can't give the best indepth explanation of WHY, as its now been a few years since I watched it.

I think part of it came down to the fact that when I watched it, having seen it recommended and praised to high heavens and told it was awesomely funny... I was underwhelmed.

The plot if distinctly silly and over the top, you can't argue against that, and a lot of the characters people seem to find funny, I just wasn't that bothered about.
It's quirky and enjoyable in it's own way, but a lot of the humour is not to my taste, it doesn't boast the most amazing or rooted story, and a lot of the characters aren't all they're cracked up to be, except as accentuated stereotypes.

I think Gurren is a victim of it's own success, in that it's been overrated to hell and back, but it's NOT good enough to cross the genre boundary for people who don't dig the sense of humour or the plot. At the end of the day, it seems to be a pastiche of a lot of mecha tropes etc the more serious side of the genre (Gundam etc) but unless you like and watch those shows, you're not necessarily going to instantly get, or enjoy it for those. I watched it all, would I watch it again? Probably not.

Arguably I think shows like FMP do a much better job of making mecha shows accessible to people who aren't big mecha fans, there is more going on outside of the Mecha domain, and the humour is at least more to my tastes, and seemingly the tastes of a lot of other people I know.

If I was a massive mecha fan, had found the humour more to my taste rather than rediculously cheesy, or hadn't seen it so overwhelmingly well reviewed, perhaps I would have been less dissapointed.

 

[Just Passing Through]

I do hate Gurren Lagann!

I find it comes from the Alanis Morissette school of post-modern irony, with it's tongue so firmly in its cheek that it's message is totally incoherent. Machismo and visual gymnastics, drenched in wish fulfillment testostorone, screaming look at me! And a bigger is better ending that has me yelling obscenities at my screen. A thousand chimpanzees masturbating at their typewriters could come up with a more fullfilling story.

... and rest.

Anyway, I'm not an immediate fan of mecha (he says polishing his Patlabor movie SEs, and GITSSAC collections. Dai-Guard and GunXSword notwithstanding.

My anime sin, I'm an anime fan who's never seen anything at all Gundam related.

 

[mangaman74]

I do hate Gurren Lagann!

I find it comes from the Alanis Morissette school of post-modern irony, with it's tongue so firmly in its cheek that it's message is totally incoherent. Machismo and visual gymnastics, drenched in wish fulfillment testostorone, screaming look at me! And a bigger is better ending that has me yelling obscenities at my screen. A thousand chimpanzees masturbating at their typewriters could come up with a more fullfilling story.

... and rest.

Anyway, I'm not an immediate fan of mecha (he says polishing his Patlabor movie SEs, and GITSSAC collections. Dai-Guard and GunXSword notwithstanding.

My anime sin, I'm an anime fan who's never seen anything at all Gundam related.

To be fair Patlabor is not really a mecha show - it's more about the police than the mecha.

 

[Sparrowsabre7]

I do hate Gurren Lagann!

I find it comes from the Alanis Morissette school of post-modern irony, with it's tongue so firmly in its cheek that it's message is totally incoherent. Machismo and visual gymnastics, drenched in wish fulfillment testostorone, screaming look at me! And a bigger is better ending that has me yelling obscenities at my screen. A thousand chimpanzees masturbating at their typewriters could come up with a more fullfilling story.

... and rest.

Anyway, I'm not an immediate fan of mecha (he says polishing his Patlabor movie SEs, and GITSSAC collections. Dai-Guard and GunXSword notwithstanding.

My anime sin, I'm an anime fan who's never seen anything at all Gundam related.

To be fair Patlabor is not really a mecha show - it's more about the police than the mecha.

Ditto GITSAC, there are mecha IN it but I'd hardly call the Tachikomas the focus of the show.

 

[ayase]

I do hate Gurren Lagann!

I find it comes from the Alanis Morissette school of post-modern irony, with it's tongue so firmly in its cheek that it's message is totally incoherent. Machismo and visual gymnastics, drenched in wish fulfillment testostorone, screaming look at me! And a bigger is better ending that has me yelling obscenities at my screen. A thousand chimpanzees masturbating at their typewriters could come up with a more fullfilling story.

Everything bolded I agree with, and I liked it. I think perhaps the problem was that you took it a little too seriously... "it's message"? "fulfilling"? GL was just OTT fun wasn't it?

 

[Just Passing Through]

I do hate Gurren Lagann!

I find it comes from the Alanis Morissette school of post-modern irony, with it's tongue so firmly in its cheek that it's message is totally incoherent. Machismo and visual gymnastics, drenched in wish fulfillment testostorone, screaming look at me! And a bigger is better ending that has me yelling obscenities at my screen. A thousand chimpanzees masturbating at their typewriters could come up with a more fullfilling story.

Everything bolded I agree with, and I liked it. I think perhaps the problem was that you took it a little too seriously... "it's message"? "fulfilling"? GL was just OTT fun wasn't it?

OTT, yes. Fun? Not so much. I just saw it as a show put together by a committee who were ticking off a checklist of what most anime fans would desire most. I'm just not one of the most.

Fortunately, unlike Hollywood committees, this bunch actually managed to cater for their target demographic. The constant levelling up of the story just wore me out...

Speaking of fanwank...

 

[Tachi]

I've taken your opinion on board, Personally I enjoyed the show for what it was - a decent enough story and i think the way it was delivered was more of a very tongue in cheek approach to anime standards than ticking off a checklist.

Think of it this way, it kept getting more and more hyped up with every battle and by the end the size of the mecha couldn't help but make me laugh, i took it as a sort of sly dig at the way most anime have (like DBZ for example) a moment where the main character is about to fail and out of nowhere this ultimate power is unleashed, only for the main bad guy to do the same thing and it just gets higher and higher until all sense is lost.

It had your typical macho main character spouting alot about honour and everything you'll expect from some anime.... and kills him off, now surely if they wheren't being a tad tounge in cheek then the main character would have won the fight and (proff magonagle voice) "lived to tell the tale".

But, people see things in different ways.

 

[Rui]

I should probably have clarified that one. It's not that I have any problem with men watching shoujo or 'girly' series (I rate Lovely Complex and I liked Ouran well enough), but having had the misfortune to sit through most of the first series of Black Butler, I honestly don't understand what anyone sees in it other than the bishonen character designs.

The characters didn't strike me as anything more than one note stereotypes, direction of the action scenes was woeful and any time the story threatened to go anywhere interesting, the writers saw fit to inflict the most grating, sub carry-on level innuendo on the audience instead. If people want to enjoy it as bishixploitation or even as a cosplay catalogue, I can at least understand that, but any notions that the series has some kind of objective quality to it are completely beyond me.

Apologies for leaping on what appeared to be a very loaded statement. I still disagree that it's not possible to like the series unless you actively want to do unspeakable things to Sebastian and his friends, but I accept that it's a Marmite kind of show. The type of humour in particular would definitely grate if you wanted more focus on the plot. The statement (admittedly, you are saying it's a sinful one...) seems a bit unfair though - it comes off rather like someone who passionately hates medieval fantasy complaining that people who like Berserk only like it for the infamously violent scenes, ignoring that there's plenty of other content in there to like if you're receptive to that type of thing.

Most of my [male] friends like the very silly humour and the dark tones. Despite the very frequent and dorky gags, it's got a very serious undercurrent running through it which manages to hold itself together during the serious arcs more than a lot of proper serious shows have the guts to do. It also wins a lot of points with me for not being a romantic comedy set in a modern day school with a bright, pastel colour palette: variety is nice!

I didn't like the stupid mutt they added in the anime version, but everything else was great to watch. It delivered on laugh-out-loud moments and mysterious adventures, with a dollop of absurdly dashing setpieces, and I loved it very much for what it was.

Anyway, will agree to disagree for now!

R

 

[Professor Irony]

It's completely my own fault for not choosing better words in the original statement. Despite any personal predilections for series featuring mute assassins who punch giant robots in the face, I don't have anything against shows that don't.

I don't feel the Berserk analogy is completely fair though; I did try to approach Black Butler with an open mind, even after my initial disappointment that it was not an adaptation of that Alan Moore story in which Jeeves & Wooster meet Cthulu. I'd like to hope that, even for shows that don't particularly interest me, I can at least appreciate when something is a good example of its form. With Black Butler, I just don't see it, which is why it baffles me so much when people start on about how good it is.

But yeah, I don't think we're likely to persuade each other here and there's no need to go to pistols at dawn over it

 

[HdE]

I'll add to my Escaflowne confession by telling you all that I own Full metal panic, and think it's an over-rated load of old pap. Watchable, quite good over-rated pap, but pap, nonetheless.

Likewise, I found FUMOFFU curiously light on laughs, with just a few stand-out exceptions.

However, The Second Raid, which my inner completest forced me to pick up, is one of the most AMAZING shows I've ever seen!

 

[alexrose1uk]

The 3 series all feel a bit different because they were made by different people:
S1 was Gonzo, Fummoffu was Kyoani being silly, S2 is Kyoani being more serious with the material

 

[ilmaestro]

I enjoyed reading the BB related exchange, as I too always thought their gesture towards straight guys was putting Ciel in girls' clothes. edit: I wonder if that qualifies as an on-topic post in this thread. fwiw, I like the show well enough having actually seen some of it.

but I accept that it's a Marmite kind of show.

Are you saying that you don't see how straight women can enjoy MariMite?

/deliberately misreads

Have you ever tried, as a 16 year old male who is overweight and always coming across as a bit weird, having to admit to your young, female ICT teacher that the copy of Tokyo Mew Mew volume 1 she found in her classroom at the end of a previous lesson was yours?

If you lived in a hentai, then this could have been a nice situation.

Excellent.

 

[Professor Irony]

Eh, if the series had a concession towards straight men, my money would be on the clumsy, glasses-wearing maid.

I would admit to not totally hating her.

 

[Rui]

I think I preferred Ran Mao (Lau's rather comely assistant) to the maid, when it came to gestures towards its male fans. There are some reasonably attractive ladies in the manga, too.

but I accept that it's a Marmite kind of show.

Are you saying that you don't see how straight women can enjoy MariMite?

/deliberately misreads

Haha, I'm afraid that I adore MariMite (and consider anyone who doesn't to be quite mad), but that was a well played counterexample. Another series which seems to have a lot of pull outside its main demographic, especially over here.

R