Aldnoah.Zero and mecha anime in general

Nice post ayase, and probably more than a thread about AZ deserves even though I'm staunchly pro-AZ!

I'm actually pleasantly surprised to see so many coming out to defend it when it was heavily criticised during its original run. The diverse tastes of AUKN strike again.

One thing that makes me a bit sad is when people try some random Gundam series then declare they hate all Gundam, even though many of the Gundam titles feel completely different to one another (tied together by some key recurring themes and tropes).

R
 
I would never say I hate all Gundam, but I would say I actively avoid Gundam.

Maybe one day I'll sit down, and try and give it another try but one issue with big long franchises like Gundam its finding a point to actually start.
 
Lambadelta said:
I would never say I hate all Gundam, but I would say I actively avoid Gundam.

Maybe one day I'll sit down, and try and give it another try but one issue with big long franchises like Gundam its finding a point to actually start.
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AL is releasing most of the older Gundam series (albeit very slowly), so those would be a good place to start. This guide does a pretty good job of showing what order to watch it in.

L8NkDFf.jpg


I think Rightstuf is releasing most of the side stories, too.
 
I am partial to a bit of Mecha but it's usually shows where the Mecha is not the only focus. Shows like, Full Metal panic, Knights of Sidonia and Eureka 7. I have no interest in Evangellion and Aladonah Zero and more hardcore mecha shows such as Gundam. It's like any anime Genre there is good and bad, it does seem less popular these days with fewer new Mecha shows being released.
 
crashmatt said:
I am partial to a bit of Mecha but it's usually shows where the Mecha is not the only focus.
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The thing is, I don't think I've seen ANY mecha shows - Gundam included - where the robots are the main focus of the story.

This is the thing I think anime fans and folks who are saying 'giant robots are not for me' need to be made more aware of. The focus is usually on characters, if anything, and sometimes the actual premise of the show itself is what's most pivotal.

Ah, heck, I'll just leave this here:

(I feel like it states some horribly obvious stuff, but a few folks have told me it's made them think twice about mecha shows.)
 
Apologies for a double post, folks - I just saw this, and my brain cells are exploding. (Which is bad, because I already don't have many left!)
Rui said:
(Also AZ is waaay better than RahXephon!)
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I'm curious as to why you'd say that - just because of my own ideas about quality and what makes a story interesting.

What I've seen of Aldnoah Zero basically ticks the boxes that I define a terrible show by. Uninteresting characters, plot progression that lacks logic, plot holes a-go go, abrupt declarations of enmity with not one iota of forshadowing... but that's me.

RahXephon, on the other hand, is a show that I can see isn't going to ingratiate itself particularly well with everybody due to its stylings. But to me, saying it's inferior to Aldnoah feels massively off centre. I found a lot to love in that show.

Given how cheaply available it is, I'd REALLY urge folks to pick up RahXephon. It's a pretty cerebral show with a clutch of absolutely excellent ideas at its centre. It appeals to me because I used to enjoy reading hard science fiction, which is more or less the direction the show leans in. It does rehash some long established genre tropes, but I think it has enough of its own identity to overcome that.

The only thing I can't stick is the soundtrack.
 
Aldnoah.Zero to me is the ultimate "blockbuster" anime sci-fi. It's dumb and ridiculous, but it's fun and shiny, and that's all I really want. It's the same reason I watched both the Robocop and Total Recall remakes, I have a weird appreciation for dumb science fiction projects with mountains of lens flare, I appreciate the designs and fun, I know there's a tonne of plotholes and I could point them out (my favourite is it's inability to decide if the villains are Martians or Earthlings who decamped to Mars), but when I'm having so much fun, why would I?

Aldnoah.Zero is basically the anime equivalent of The Fast and the Furious franchise, why are we assessing it in line with Evangellion?


If it's included in AL's Mystery Box, I will have two copies of the show and still regret nothing. (Aside from the stacked digipack, which is the work of the devil, AL's CE is really great and I love that dark blue art on the back of the box.)
 
HdE said:
The thing is, I don't think I've seen ANY mecha shows - Gundam included - where the robots are the main focus of the story.

This is the thing I think anime fans and folks who are saying 'giant robots are not for me' need to be made more aware of. The focus is usually on characters, if anything, and sometimes the actual premise of the show itself is what's most pivotal.

Ah, heck, I'll just leave this here:

(I feel like it states some horribly obvious stuff, but a few folks have told me it's made them think twice about mecha shows.)
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I think what I meant to say is that I prefer an alternative theme such as sci fi - Fantasy rather than Mecha. I would also argue that long running Mecha shows like Gundam are not as accessible for new anime fans due to the vast amount of series over many year. the same goes for Macross.
 
HdE said:
I'm curious as to why you'd say that - just because of my own ideas about quality and what makes a story interesting.
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Pretty much what Buzz201 said; for me the main objective of any anime I watch is for it to entertain me. Being cerebral, having ideas and having a solid (but less exciting) plot won't compensate for the fact that one show had me pumped waiting for each new episode to come out while the other... didn't. AZ has better character designs, better action scenes (however insane), better music, better animation (an unfair comparison, but I feel a valid one) and better melodramatic politics. I related better to Inaho than what's-his-face. AZ was also fairly nuts, but I'm completely ok with that.

Ultimately I just never connected with RahXephon and its world in the post-Evangelion era when everyone was trying to one-up everyone else with cerebral mecha anime for a while. If I was coming in fresh to it now, maybe time and distance would give me a different perspective, but you can't watch something again for the first time and my first time with RahXephon was a wholly underwhelming experience.

Since I rate entertainment value over subjective critical perfection, I cannot consider RahXephon a better show than AZ in any sense of the word. I also like Valvrave (is it ok to admit to that, or is it still too soon?) I don't give a fig about realism; most of my favourite shows in general throw the concept right out of the window from the very first episode. That doesn't mean I only like popcorn shows, it just means that I don't give cerebral shows a free pass based on the quality of their world building if they fail to entertain me on a more superficial level too.

crashmatt said:
I think what I meant to say is that I prefer an alternative theme such as sci fi - Fantasy rather than Mecha. I would also argue that long running Mecha shows like Gundam are not as accessible for new anime fans due to the vast amount of series over many year. the same goes for Macross.
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Even though the UC diehards will likely disagree (and the very best of the Gundam universe comes in some of the interconnected UC stuff), I think it's a good idea to start with whichever of the 'self-contained' Gundam spin-offs looks most appealing initially. There's a reason why Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Gundam Seed and Gundam 00 all did quite well in the west and it's because you didn't need to wade through years of history to get the most out of them. They all have fairly diverse takes on the Gundam formula, too, which makes them interesting. Then, once you know you like the overall themes, you can dive in and soak up the main series.

Now that Origin is a thing there's an opportunity for new fans to go straight in there and move on to the original series afterwards, which presents the usual prequel/sequel ordering worries from older fans. I think it would work well for some people, though the step down between Origin's stunning modern OAV animation and the older television series might be quite a leap.

R
 
Rui and Buzz - you both make an excellent, inarguable point. And you both do it very eloquently as well. You can't argue with personal taste!

I think it's kind of important that people can explain WHY they enjoy what they watch. Otherwise, we're just mindlessly consuming stuff. So long as people are happy with what they take in, I guess that's all that's important.
 
Without wishing to condemn the entire franchise, I feel it's worth reassuring anyone having doubts, that Gundam will not be for everyone. Out of the dozen or so entries I've attempted over the years, I can only point to two of them I actually like (War in the Pocket and Stardust Memory). Lots of people seem to enjoy Gundam, and that's fine, but as with any long form show, I would urge anyone not enjoying it not to force themselves to complete it. It just makes you bitter and resentful of the incredible kicks Gundam fans seem to be getting from things you'll never know.
 
Professor Irony said:
Without wishing to condemn the entire franchise, I feel it's worth reassuring anyone having doubts, that Gundam will not be for everyone. Out of the dozen or so entries I've attempted over the years, I can only point to two of them I actually like (War in the Pocket and Stardust Memory).
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Do we even need to state this, though?

I don't think I've ever known a medium more divisive than anime in general. It seems like fans can never make up ther minds about quality - especially within any given franchise. Heck - Gundam fans are especially that way inclined, from experience. Depending on wheo you speak to, Gunda OO is either the greatest show in the fanchise or a hideous pox upon it. Or is that Gundam SEED? Or Gundam X? It doesn't really matter, as folks seem to make these kinds of judgements arbitrarily.

That said, Prof - those are a couple of damned solid shows you mention. I especially like Stardust Memory. I'm curious, though - have you tried out The 08th MS Team? That seems to make up a holy trinity with the other OVAs based around the UC timeline. It was th first Gundam I ever saw, and managed to hook me on the entire franchise.
 
HdE said:
Do we even need to state this, though?
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I'm probably being overly cautious, but this kind of scenario has led to some rather heated exchanges on the discord chat in recent times and I just feared a repeat of that.

Back on topic though, the 08th MS Team is one that I struggled with. I had high hopes for it going in, as everyone seemed to talk about it as 'the gritty one' and, having recently watched Votoms at that point, I was looking forward to something in a similar vein, but from the little I saw, I couldn't get past the trite Romeo & Juliet romance element. Should stress that I didn't see much of it though - I really must give it another shot sometime.
 
That kind of surprises me that you'd have a tough time with The 08th.

It's probably not a show I'd describe as 'gritty', given that the material it's spawned from is already pretty gnarly (think about it - the entire series basically advocates the use of child soldiers and depicts the psychological strain it puts them under.) But taken as a slice of the franchise that puts a more adult context on things, in the sense that the soldiers of the 08th are ACTUAL soldiers, I think it's pretty refreshing. There's a fair bit of stuff on screen to explain what the UC is and how everything in Gundam works, too, which made it a great intro for me.

Definitely worth revisiting, I'd say, especially if you never got as far as seeing the Gouf Custom in action!
 
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Is there any mecha anime close to mechwarrior in terms of realism and thought out tech/roles?

A friend of mine loathes anime mecha simply due to the lack of plausibility where designs and movement are concerned and we discuss it often whenever a new one comes along that I am enthusiastic about (the core impracticality of a bipedal war machine remains a mute issue :p as we've both agreed that's a step too far).

I've yet to see any series that fulfils his criteria and I do like my mecha anime and battletech (mechwarrior)
 
It's a US series rather than anime per se, but have you seen the old Battletech cartoon from the 1990s? The character art is a bit rough and it's definitely been sanitised for the kids' market, but it's quite a gutsy little series that draws heavily on the Battletech lore and at 12 episodes, it's not a big investment of time either.

Failing that, Votoms might float your boat - its scopedog mechs are pretty much just an expendable tank on legs. The series is too long and really looks its age now, but there's still plenty in it to savour. For me its finest hour was probably the action-packed Roots of Ambition OAV, although sadly that never got a legitimate release in English.

 
Thanks I'll check them out. I vaguely remember the battletech cartoon lol, it actually cropped up in my head when I wrote the post but I wasn't sure if I'd imagined it.
 
I just finished watching Aldnoah.Zero

I do agree with some of the points about it especially its plot for the purpose of plot. I felt its beginning was pretty strong, but about mid-way I just kept wondering to myself. Is this still going on? When will the plot advance? and then suddenly 1 1/2 episodes to wrap up what the other 11 1/2 tried to do. The ending did take me slightly be surprise, but knowing there is a Season 2 makes me a bit confused.

Overall I would definitely class it as Entertaining, but if the show is good or not I will need to sleep on and see how I feel. I definitely wouldn't pay the full RRP that Aldnoah.Zero goes for, but its a really nice Mystery Box title.
 
I couldn't say that the mecha genre is something I'm automatically pulled towards, personally.

The big exceptions are Evangelion and Code Geass, though. :)

I'm also very partial to Macross Plus and Expelled from Paradise.
 
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