A style or a place of origin? Your definition of manga

Paul

Paul

Ghost of Animes
Administrator
Lately I've heard a lot about (especially Tokyopop's) O.E.L. aka Original English Language manga; these are essentially Western comics drawn in the Japanese manga style- just because they are drawn and arranged this way, should they be considered manga?

I personally define manga as comics that first and foremost are created in Japan. Manga itself covers many different drawing styles and techniques, but linking it all together is the simple fact that it originated in Japan. That's often what makes it unique.

Now we have Tokyopop producing it's much hyped original manga which is often drawn and written by American artists in a generic Japanese style. Is this manga or something else? What do you think?
 
Hmmm... That's a good question there Paul. Personally I agree with you: manga's Japanese - a part of a culture rather than simply an artistic style, but then that throws up the question of what to call the Western stuff that's being made (if you define manga simply as 'Japanese comics' then American of British 'manga' would just be comics, and that would imply stuff like Marvel, which it clearly isn't...)

What I'm trying to say is I reckon we need a new term to describe non-Japanese manga style work...
 
We had a discussion on this on another board (not an anime board note) and one guy (i can't stand him, he's no more than a troll, but the admin is too lenient with him) argued that he could never draw manga, simply because you have to be japanese to do it.

I don't think that is completely true myself. Of course it is a japanese art form, but if you are from the west and draw it, especially if you use a sudonym, no one is going to know any different. Of course there is still the perception of Manga as Japanese, but i think as more people descover it, it will become as more international art form where people from different countries can do it more openly.
 
To me manga is like Champagne. It's only true Champagne if it comes from the Champagne region of Northeast France, otherwise it's just sparkling wine.
 
WTFDaveMustaine said:
To me manga is like Champagne. It's only true Champagne if it comes from the Champagne region of Northeast France, otherwise it's just sparkling wine.
Click to expand...

That's a good definition. I'll go with what he said. ;]
 
Well...if you think about it this way, Japanese comic books are called "manga" and American comic books are called...um..."comic books" :? . I'm not sure it's a question of style at all, but more on where the book has originated.

Although, if you were Japanese and used the American cartoon style...would that be manga or comics?

...I think I just confused myself...
 
hmm...i would say that they should not really be defined as Manga, because, as you said Paul, a manga is a comic book originating from Japan, so i think that american 'manga's' should really just be comic books.
 
I think of real manga as being Japanese in origin, but I don't see a problem with comic books (I hate calling them that...I mean 'graphic novels') from other countries being in the manga style.

I think it's great that people outside of Japan are using the manga style art and storytelling techniques in their own work - it makes for more good books to read! If however any non-Japanese graphic novel was being passed of as manga I'd have cause for complaint. It would be misleading readers!
 
I think anyone can draw Manga 'stlye' comics but manga for me is Japanese comics and I'll never consider someone outside of japan thats drawn a comic in a manga style actual manga.
 
Something I forgot in my first post: Korean manga is called manwha, which implies both a similarity to the manga style but a difference in its production outside of Japan. So if Korea - who are closer to Japan, geographically and culturally - have a different term for their 'manga', why shouldn't America or the UK?
 
Manga is a style because I'm sure that anime and manga itself was heavily influenced by Walt Disney cartoons - which is not Japanese? How ironic! Then you have to think about that there are styles within styles. Some more westernised than others or more unique in a sense.

From what I can see from this topic, most people wouldn't buy a manga if it's not drawn by a Japanese mangaka. So I won't buy a curry because it's not from India? - it's the same logic.

In my opinion, people from other countries draw 'manga style' and so what if it's not 'true' manga? As long as it has a good plot and artwork, I don't see the difference. X-Men has a good storyline that rivals any manga!

So would I call my drawings manga? No I would not - however they are manga/anime influenced but are my own style. At the end of the day, comics and manga are the same - graphic novels.
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Honda cb175 specifications
 
I don't think anyone is saying Western comics are rubbish; I mean I've just seen V for Vendetta at the cinema and if the graphic novel is anything like the movie, then it will be brilliant.

My personal concern is that companies like Tokyopop are passing off their work as manga in order to trick people into thinking that it is indeed the real thing. There is nothing to say these works can't be good, but they aren't manga either. Manga is comics from Japan.
 
I'm not really sure what I think on this subject. Manga by my definition is comic books for Japan, that tend to have a certain style to them. However anyone from any country can replicate that style. And put out a perfectly good story if they are talented enough.

If Tokyopop are billing all these non-Japanese made titles as manga, they are merely using the Japanese defenition of the word. In Japan manga is just comics in general its the west thats embraced the definition manga = comics from Japan. Technically Tokyopop are using the true meaning of the word in their marketing and while it is rather misleading to some, I wouldnt say theres anything wrong in Tokyopop defining non-Japanese comics as manga.
 
Distinctions are only useful as long as they remain distinct.

Tokyopop were trying to muddy the waters recently in the press wrt manga being a 'style/content' based thing. Presumably to legitimise OEL & manga sharing the same shelves.

Bear in mind that an interview with Viz, turned it on its head.

Once you decide that manga is based on something other than heritage, i.e. style/content based you will come up with a definition that cannot be applied to many examples of japanese comics. Which just strikes me as nonsensical.

The simplest, most universally applicable definition of manga is japanese comics. English material that is heavily influenced by, or aspires to be manga should be defined seperately, and the term OEL (Original English Language) manga is a good term.

To counter a point raised by another poster, I believe it is possible for a non-japanese person to produce or be part of the production team for a manga. The important thing is that the production is japanese, there is strong involvement form an editor and a publisher who is interested in having that person's work appeal to a japanese audience.

OEL Manga is produced under different circumstances. The fact that is is non-serialized is very important (and not just on the release speed - there is an art in itself of structuring storytelling in the chapter format) its appeal is different. As a fusion of influences I believe it should deserve due credit and come out of the shadow of manga-imitators. But ultimately I think it should be categorised differently.
 
Hmm... well, this got me thinking.

I guess... a manga could theoretically be created by someone in, say, the UK, that in terms of style and story was indistinguishable from Japanese-created manga.
WTFDave Mustaine said:
To me manga is like Champagne. It's only true Champagne if it comes from the Champagne region of Northeast France, otherwise it's just sparkling wine.
Click to expand...
But if you couldn't taste any difference, would it matter?

Admittedly, I haven't read any OEL manga, but if there's no instantly discernable difference between poducts - that is, one is very obviously created in Japan, and the other is not - then why do we need a distinction?

So... I guess I'm arguing that manga is more of a style, rather than just "Japanese comics", and I don't think art styles are restricted to where they originate...
 
Ramadahl said:
WTFDave Mustaine said:
To me manga is like Champagne. It's only true Champagne if it comes from the Champagne region of Northeast France, otherwise it's just sparkling wine.
Click to expand...
But if you couldn't taste any difference, would it matter?
Click to expand...
Nope.
 
Its like with an antique though, you get fake ones that are made that are indistinguishable from the real thing. I personally don't believe that Japanese people should be the only ones to draw Manga, and I don't think they actually care.
 
mikeormy said:
Its like with an antique though, you get fake ones that are made that are indistinguishable from the real thing. I personally don't believe that Japanese people should be the only ones to draw Manga, and I don't think they actually care.
Click to expand...

Actually, there is a lot of heat between the Japanese and Korean comic industries right now because Korea is seen as essentially stealing the Japanese style and really becoming quite good at it. At least good enough to be considered as genuine rivals.

I think it's okay to say something is manga influenced, but to say that a Western comic is actually manga seems wrong and misleading.
 
What if there are foreigners working for a Japanese company drawing Manga, is their art any less 'Manga' than the Japanese artists?
 
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