20 Years in Prison for Buying a Manga

[Aion]

I came across this article yesterday. It's about a man who has been fighting to stay out of jail since his house was raided back in 2006 and he had his 1200 manga volumes and 7 computers taken away. He was later charged because of the content in some of his manga, which people assume means lolicon stuff that the people who saw it didn't take kindly to. It all started when someone at customs opened a package ordered from Japan and alerted the authorities to the obscene material inside.

Link: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/editori ... /carl-horn

I hope my PC is never confiscated. While I don't do lolicon or any sick stuff like that, I don't think UK people would be too impressed with certain parts of my porn collection. >

 

[evangelion rocks]

I heard about this awhile ago but I thought the guy got let off? :? Is no one else questioning the fact that the postman had opened a package that didn't belong to him anyway?

 

[Wildcard]

Heard about this too, seems like the usual witchhunting, but that's a hefty sentence.

I assume it was lolicon they found, something I don't condone personally - but at the end of the day 20 years for ownership of drawings is ridiculous, regardless of obscene content. That's the sort of thing I'd expect for a drug dealer or GBH, not for some dirty manga.

And as Eva Rocks points out, what was the postman doing anyway reading through someone elses package?

 

[Aion]

Customs are allowed to open suspicious packages that enter the country.

I think what he's actually being charged for now is bringing porn into a state where it isn't allowed. Different parts of America have different laws: I believe Iowa calls all porn obscene.

 

[evangelion rocks]

For a package containing a book to cause that much concern, it must have had THERE IS NOTHING ILLICIT IN HEREprinted on it otherwise I can't be sure how a package like that could arrouse any suspicion(apart from suspecting it of being a bomb of some sort)

 

[Wildcard]

Customs are allowed to open suspicious packages that enter the country.

I think what he's actually being charged for now is bringing porn into a state where it isn't allowed. Different parts of America have different laws: I believe Iowa calls all porn obscene.

"God forbid! Someone in our fair state is reading pornography!"

That's already enough reason for me to avoid Iowa.

Still, rather than the case itself I'm more concerned about the longterm effects of this situation. If people take this seriously we could be looking at a plague of censorship in Manga.

 

[Aion]

That's why this is such a hot issue. Publishers are going to be far more careful with what they release if violence and underage goings on depicted in drawings can result in lengthy prison sentences. Whatever you think of hentai, manga not being released because of worries over the content isn't a good thing. If this guy loses his case then it's not impossible for charges to be placed against people who own Berserk because of the violence/gore and rape... Wasn't there an attempted rape on an underage version of Casca in it?

 

[evangelion rocks]

Still, rather than the case itself I'm more concerned about the longterm effects of this situation. If people take this seriously we could be looking at a plague of censorship in Manga.

That is a valid point considering most of the major publishers like tokyopop and viz are based in the US,which would directly affect us as a fair few titles are just imported over here.

 

[Yagami]

Ouch. Does this mean doujinshins are illegal?

 

[Wildcard]

If this guy loses his case then it's not impossible for charges to be placed against people who own Berserk because of the violence/gore and rape... Wasn't there an attempted rape on an underage version of Casca in it?

Exactly what came to my mind. Berserk frequently has excessive violence and sex (sometimes in combination), but the story mostly justifies it. However, the average censor may glance through and think 'Sick rape porn', and that would be it - banned.

An unlikely scenario perhaps, but not impossible.

 

[Otaku-san]

I hope my PC is never confiscated. While I don't do lolicon or any sick stuff like that, I don't think UK people would be too impressed with certain parts of my porn collection. >

I'm under the inpression you mean your 'fine' doujinshi collection yes

 

[ayase]

I think what he's actually being charged for now is bringing porn into a state where it isn't allowed. Different parts of America have different laws: I believe Iowa calls all porn obscene.

So let me get this straight, someone's going to prison for 20 years for owning a work of fiction? In order to defend freedom, I think the United States should kick Iowa out of the Union and then invade it.

Well they wouldn't wanna look like hypocrites now, would they? :?

Addition: Just noticed this in the article too:

Neil Gaiman isn't American, but he moved here in part because—despite cases like this, and despite the need for the CBLDF—freedom of speech is more strongly fought for in the U.S. than in his native country, the United Kingdom.

Now I'm a big fan of Mr. Gaiman's work, but what utter crap. I don't remember anyone being threatened with prison for owning books this side of the pond since Lady Chatterly's Lover, and even then it was directed against the publishers, not individual owners.

 

[Ambrogino]

For those who aren't following this elsewhere;

20 years is the maximum sentance for Obscenity (which he's being tried for), not the expected sentance. Of course the time he's already spent awaiting trial is far more of a sentance than should be deserved in any rational world.

The specific package opened by the postal service is unknown. However, it's believed to be Yaoi featuring young looking characters sans pubic hair, and was therefore initially thought to be shota lolicon.

Neil Gaiman seems to keep getting quoted out of context as meaning "they don't have freedom of speech in the UK" when what he meant was "freedom of speech is not a legislated right in the UK".

 

[ayase]

Neil Gaiman seems to keep getting quoted out of context as meaning "they don't have freedom of speech in the UK" when what he meant was "freedom of speech is not a legislated right in the UK".

Except even that's not true since we adopted the European Convention on Human Rights, which contains under Article 10:

"1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary."

And as for a couple of recent laws passed in the UK, I'd far sooner lose my right to incite racial and religious hatred (not ones I can say I'm in the habit of using) than my right to read a fictional book depicting something illegal. If they want to go that far why not ban all books which contain murder?

 

[Fellistowe]

Ouch. Does this mean doujinshins are illegal?

ish

On another news topic on ANN (here) I'd asked a question relevant to this (I was after info on importing Doujin), so I'll post my question and reply here:

Fellistowe wrote:
Related but more general: Does anyone know which bits of UK law cover animated pornography (and which bits of the law Quayle would have been referring to)? Last I knew our laws were vague on the matter to say the least.

Assuming that Dr. Quayle was correctly reported, then she was either badly informed or simply lying to put pressure on the Japanese. UK law (and I've got to be a little careful here, because Scotland and NI are potentially different from the rest of the UK) criminalises the possession of "indecent" photographic images and pseudo-photographic images of children under the age of 18, plus any image drawn, traced or derived in any way from an actual indecent photographic image of a child. A pseudo-photographic image is one that looks like a photograph, or that, to a child, would be indistinguishable from a photograph (the reason for this is that such images could be used for grooming). The threshold for indecency is very low, even a topless photo of a young female child taken by the child's own parents on a beach could be "indecent". Confusingly, David Hamilton photobooks are still openly on sale, and the BBFC continues to pass films containing even full-frontal images of naked children as long as they are in a non-sexualised context. In short, it's a mess.

When it comes to cartoon-like images, it's currently legal to possess anything you like, but it is illegal to sell, distribute or import "obscene" images. The threshold for obscenity is generally much higher than for indecency - usually it's things like bestiality, scat, watersports, etc. However, proposals have been made earlier this year (but not heard of since) that would criminalise the possession of images of "child abuse", which is basically defined as a list of various things being done by or with someone who is or who appears to be a child under the age of 18. This would now specifically include drawings, but only if they were also "obscene". My assumption would be that courts would set the obscenity bar rather lower for things involving children (even drawn ones) than they would for adults, but this remains to be seen. Obscenity has a defence of artistic merit though, so if you can show something has serious artistic value then it's not obscene. In short, it's going to be an even bigger mess.

If angel_lover is also on here, thanks again for the info

Basically it's referring to the Extreme Porn Bill and that amendment they tried to pass through parliament a while back. While the above topic at the time was directed at the lolicon issue, you'll find the Extreme Porn Act subjectively could be applied to a very wide range of Doujin genres (S&M, scat, rape, etc).
If I'm understanding the situation correctly as well then the conditions of what is covered seems to be a bit subjective based on the "judgement" of whatever customs officer is inspecting it at the time, and from some of the background reading I've been doing they can be a bit, erm, zealous.

I'd be interested if anyone has any further stories or info on importing Doujin through UK customs.

 

[Eggn0g]

Something you may want to know Fellistowe, the Extreme Porn bill wont criminalise drawings, so most doujins are fine. However, these new laws will make lolicon and shotacon illegal, so we may be getting cases like this over here soon enough.

Although lolicon, shotacon and all that stuff is pretty messed up IMO, sending people to prison over it seems a bit extreme if you ask me. From several people I know, liking lolicon/shotacon doesn't automatically mean that you want to rape children.

I hope the guy gets off from this case without charge, since he's already got to put up with the stigma in his community about it, and he probably didn't even know the stuff was illegal. Poor bloke

 

[ayase]

Something you may want to know Fellistowe, the Extreme Porn bill wont criminalise drawings, so most doujins are fine. However, these new laws will make lolicon and shotacon illegal, so we may be getting cases like this over here soon enough.

"paedophiles could be circumventing the law by using computer technology to manipulate real photographs or videos of abuse into drawings or cartoons" (emphasis mine)

While I agree a crime has been commited if there's a real human victim behind something which is then passed off as fictional, what they are intending here is to ban all fiction representing something illegal "just in case" it was a depiction of real events. Slippery. *******. Slope.

Although lolicon, shotacon and all that stuff is pretty messed up IMO, sending people to prison over it seems a bit extreme if you ask me. From several people I know, liking lolicon/shotacon doesn't automatically mean that you want to rape children.

A very good point, and one I fully agree with. I don't want Grand Theft Auto banning because running people over and beating them to death in a fantasy world helps me take out frustrations so I don't go out and do it in real life.

Addition: I was appaled enough by this to skim through the documents linked to by Eggn0g. How many people did they counsult in order to draw up this proposal? Eighty-seven. Twenty-one of whom thought it was a bad idea and they should do nothing. Twenty-eight thought they should introduce new legislation. Twenty-eight consultants are deciding our laws now.

 

[Aion]

Fellistowe: I recall having a discussion about this on EuroFaggots.net awhile back.

Technically, depending on how knowledgable about anime/manga and how much of a bastard the person who sees what's on your PC is, you could be arrested in the UK for having nude images of Yoko from TTGL on your HDD as she's 14. The same goes for many other anime characters who are supposed to be underage.

Also, I recall being told that while the age of consent is indeed 16, it's illegal in the UK to own images of people under the age of 18. You can do whatever you want to a 16 year old sexually but can't have pictures of them naked - stupid.

What this means is that, if, for example, a 'friend' sees your collection and reports you for having hentai images of characters under the age of 18, you could very well be having your door kicked down and your computer taken away. And, if you happen to have any porn involving something extreme like rape, you'd be in even deeper **** since rape porn isn't allowed in the UK. This would be a bit of an issue for most when an awful lot of hentai involves forced sex.

...basically, Berserk is ****** if the law ever gets serious. Be sure to hide your Berserk collection if news of doors being knocked down and manga/computers being taken start spreading around the UK!

 

[fabio de lunatico]

Berserk will be fine. If films like Irreversible are passed uncut by the BBFC, our innocuous comics will remain legal for the foreseeable future.

 

[Aion]

Irreversible has a rather lengthy scene showing the Goddess that is Monica Bellucci getting raped by another adult.

Berserk is a bit different: I haven't seen the entire story but even I know of a scene where a young Guts is anally raped by a big black man and another scene where a very young Casca is pushed down, has her top ripped open and is nearly raped by an adult. Add those two child rape scenes together with all the monster raping and slaughter and I think it's safe to assume the content of the Berserk books might not be looked upon in the same way as a film with a single adult rape scene.

For the time being Berserk is safe, yes, but it won't be if the the law is enforced like it can be. It'll only be a matter of time if it starts happening in America - after all, we are Americas bitches.