Asian Cinema Thread

Dai said:
I was surprised when I saw just how bad HDR discs look on an SDR TV. I tested it with the Falcon and the Winter Soldier UHD a while ago. Half the background vanishes into a sea of black for indoor scenes, shadows swallow up large parts of people's faces, etc.
Click to expand...
This seems heavily dependent on the player being used. The Panasonic UB420 I have seems to do a reasonable job with only a change to a single setting that I guess affects the overall range of luminance of the image, as it seems to take care of that issue. In its default setting at least with my display it's very dark with a lot of detail lost. I've done some comparisons with 4K discs that come with a Blu-ray of the same master, and I can make the two look roughly equivalent.

OTOH, I tried a Sony X700 player, and I got poor results with it. The Panasonic has something they call the "HDR Optimizer" which has further adjustments, but I didn't use any of that in my testing.

I'm sure the results aren't completely ideal, but I've only bought 4K discs where there either is no Blu-ray at all, or it's some very old master that's unacceptable quality, so given the alternatives it's an acceptable tradeoff.

What I find annoying is some companies when they make a new Blu-ray to match a 4K disc, rather than creating a master from before the HDR was applied to the master, they are also just converting the HDR master back to SDR, and apparently via a completely automated process in some cases, with often significant black crush, or alternately things that should be pretty dark being overly lit.

Tangential rant: Online, especially on video-centric forums, mention anything about doing this or just looking at screen caps that are HDR converted to SDR, and there's always a chorus of "You're not seeing it as intended or like you'll see it on a proper HDR display!!!" I'll accept that, in theory at least. In practice, few if any consumer TVs support the nit specs a lot of HDR is mastered at, and those TVs do their own tone mapping to convert that HDR into what the particular display can show. How is that any different than HDR to SDR conversion, aside from potentially not having to be quite as extreme of a conversion?

My apparently controversial opinion is that HDR is revisionist BS and is not what films ever looked like in theaters, where projectors were something like 100-200 nits (I don't remember exactly, but it is pretty low). If 4K discs were just an increase in resolution and the improved color gamut I wouldn't object to the format. It's HDR I do not like out of principle.
 
Last edited:
Hard-Boiled Blu-ray Limited Edition.
Nice set with the postcards and poster. I didn't find the booklet terribly interesting.
I have watched some of the extras and found Anthony Wong the best. I agree with him that A Better Tomorrow and The Killer are better. Although, I like ABT 2 more than the original.

It's even sold out on Arrow. The guy in HMV told me they didn't even get stock of the Blu-ray and the one 4K they received sold in 30 minutes. I wouldn't like to have been there in 35 minutes.

I'd better sort out The Killer sooner than later.
 
Otomo said:
Hard-Boiled Blu-ray Limited Edition.
Nice set with the postcards and poster. I didn't find the booklet terribly interesting.
I have watched some of the extras and found Anthony Wong the best. I agree with him that A Better Tomorrow and The Killer are better. Although, I like ABT 2 more than the original.

It's even sold out on Arrow. The guy in HMV told me they didn't even get stock of the Blu-ray and the one 4K they received sold in 30 minutes. I wouldn't like to have been there in 35 minutes.

I'd better sort out The Killer sooner than later.
Click to expand...
Fully agree ABT 2 is better than the original (which is still great).
With all the Arrow Golden Princess releases I'd advise pre ordering because the reverse importation is insane.

If you're interested in the Chinese Ghost Story Trilogy the rumour is Arrow are doing 4K's instead of Shout's blu ray only release so that's a possible preorder the second its announced!
 
88 Films have revealed their July slate which has some pretty cool additions for fans of Jackie Chan, Shaw Brothers and CATIII content.

1777483886306.png

Magnificent Bodyguards 3D - 13th July
This one has been in production hell due to the 3D technology that 88 Films wanted to provide to give us the best experience possible. They finally got it sorted but the first print edition will be the only way to get the third Blu-ray disc that offers 3D Anaglyph. The later print runs will still offer both 2D Blu-ray and 3D Blu-ray discs as well as the rest of the on-disc extras.

1777484018743.png

Riki-Oh: The Story of Ricky 4K Ultra HD - 20th July
The classic CATIII action flick that was based on a Japanese manga is coming back and is now on 4K. This is a brand new exclusive 4K restoration by 88 Films which includes the improvements done to their Blu-ray release (source: OldPangYau via BD forum).

1777484061899.png

Sex and Zen II - 29th June
Released in 1996, this is the second instalment in the erotic historical Sex and Zen series featuring not safe for work and other weird comedy antics. I expect packaging will match the previous release but happy to have more CATIII titles released.

1777484238302.png

Shaw Brothers Triple Feature - 27th July
For once 88 Films are releasing a box set for their 88 Asia Shaw Brothers collection with #52-54 compiled here. This set features Tong Kai's Shaolin Intruders, Tong Kai's Shaolin Prince and Chang Cheh's Two Champions of Shaolin. All three films were included in Shout Factory's Shaw Brothers Classics Volume 4 box set.
 
Randomly decided to check the listings for my local Vue yesterday.
Thought to myself, that sounds familiar and immediately cancelled all plans.

Cold War 1994 is listed.🎉

It's the greatest movie I've ever seen.
Since the last time I said that.
Fights, car chases, shooting and top notch acting.
All my favourite HK actors are getting old.😭

All I'll say is don't leave as soon as the credits roll and the Triad alter was too elaborate for 1994.
And they managed a cameo for Kent Cheng who's got one of my favourite faces.
 
Last edited:
1778320545884.png

Speaking of Vue, Kokuho, the latest film from Lee Sang-il (who also directed the 2013 remake of Unforgiven which I really loved) is also screening at Vue as they have the theatrical rights for the UK. Watching it later today (it's almost 3 hours runtime as well) in the Ultra Lux seat just to give it a shot.

TOHO and GKIDS have the rights in North America so I'm surprised Anime Limited didn't get their hands on it and since Vue isn't known for home video I figured its either watch it at the big screen or miss my chances.
 
Arrow released a promo video showing their restorations of the films in the Jackie Chan set. Everything looks so good:

I saw some images of the set posted elsewhere but I don't know the source so didn't want to repost without attribution. It showed the open side of the box, and as we were discussing above it is definitely using Amaray cases. They might be the thinner ones Arrow uses for some sets, but I couldn't tell for certain from the image.

Arrow also recently announced John Woo's Once a Thief as the next Golden Princess title, and just put up a trailer for it. This one is just the theatrical trailer and one showing Arrow's master will come later:

And here are the ones for the other John Woo films with the Arrow masters. I think it can be a bit confusing but they use official trailer to refer to those and original trailer for the theatrical which generally isn't showing the new restorations.


 
Arrow unboxing for the Jackie Chan set:

Mine has arrived but I haven't had time to open it up yet.

It uses the really thin cases, like Arrow has used for the spaghetti western sets and a few others, and is a very common case type in Germany. Since the set has that box with the cards that is the type of thing I don't really care to keep in a set, I'm hoping that switching the cases to the slightly thicker typical US type, like Warner Bros and Universal now use in the UK, will work out where they still fit and also fill the box without that filler box inside. I've found that the case artwork is interchangeable between those two case sizes without extra gaps on the larger cases. Whether that works or not, I'm so happy this uses normal cases instead of digipaks and that every film has its own case.

I believe the Arrow exclusive version will have the same white box with the same art but just the sleeve is unique, along with the art on each disc case. I know some here were getting that version so if you would, please verify that when you get yours.
 
Last edited:
@cfx I’m getting the store exclusive version so will check that when it comes in - was charged today.

On a side note I wish they’d just not included the postcards considering how much space they take up within the box. Glad they’re using those thin cases - Arrow should always be using those for their Boxsets, irks me when they don’t as it just wastes more shelf space otherwise.
 
Last edited:
Yeah that box with the cards is a little disappointing, and really wouldn't have been needed as they could have just stuck the cards in the same way as the poster. I dislike those kinds of boxes because I don't really like to store the extra non-media stuff together with the rest. Not much of an issue with blu-rays outside of anime, but with those the LEs often have some kind of other tat that is in boxes like that, and I prefer it when that box doesn't go inside the big box with everything else. When Manga/Funimation/Crunchyroll was still doing a lot of LEs, if it was a series in two parts what they often did was have that filler box of tat in the LE box, but it was just a space filler where the second part only had a standard edition, that fit in that space once you got that. I know there is also a debate on this where some would want the extra space to store everything in the box, but I prefer it like this where the extra tat can just be put elsewhere (or in my case sometimes thrown in the bin lol).

I get the space issue but I prefer it when they use standard UK cases in the sets for consistency, and also it gives a larger spine so it's easier to see the title. There have been sets where I only want to keep part of the discs--has been the case for the spaghetti western sets where I haven't liked at least one film in each one, so I take the ones I want out of the box and then wish they matched other standard Arrow releases. It's admittedly a pretty minor nitpick though.
 
Arrow Video sent me the standard version of the Jackie Chan Breakout set instead of the Store Exclusive - seems to be a reoccurring issue that I hope is rectified without too much arseache.
 
HWR said:
Arrow Video sent me the standard version of the Jackie Chan Breakout set instead of the Store Exclusive - seems to be a reoccurring issue that I hope is rectified without too much arseache.
Click to expand...
I've been seeing complaints about this and it does seem to be a common issue. I'm also seeing their customer service not being good but hopefully you'll have better luck.

Arrow announced their A Better Tomorrow set, both 4K UHD and Blu-ray versions as usual for their Golden Princess titles:
www.arrowfilms.com

A Better Tomorrow Trilogy Limited Edition 4K UHD | Arrow Films

Shop A Better Tomorrow Trilogy Limited Edition 4K UHD at Arrow Films. Free UK Delivery
www.arrowfilms.com www.arrowfilms.com
www.arrowfilms.com

A Better Tomorrow Trilogy Limited Edition Blu-ray | Arrow Films

Shop A Better Tomorrow Trilogy Limited Edition Blu-ray at Arrow Films. Free UK Delivery
www.arrowfilms.com www.arrowfilms.com
 
Did anyone else preorder Hellevator from Treasured Films? Just wondering if anyone has had it sent or delivered yet as it's showing as in stock but no movement for me so far.
 
So I've been on a bit of a 80s 90s Hong Kong classic action movie kick recently, mainly John Woo. I've been wanting to watch them for ages as I'd only ever seen the first A Better Tomorrow but none of the other classics. And thanks to recently discovering Tubi I've been able to fill my boots!

A Better Tomorrow (1986)

A thoroughly enjoyable film that establishes the basic formula that defines these "Heroic Bloodshed" films: Homoerotic intense crims and cops melodrama blended with stylized operatic gun super violence. This first film though is much more weighted on the melodrama and there's surprisingly few gun battles, and I'm not sure they're quite "bullet ballet" yet, although the early one with Mark in the Taiwanese restaurant is definitely one of the best and coolest action scenes Woo has ever done. But Woo hasn't started losing his mind just yet and we don't quite have the lurid orgies of guns and violence that would follow in his later films. And as such this film is bit less interesting for me. The performances of the three male leads are fantastic, they really make the film, and make all the musings on loyalty and brotherhood and lost values of a bygone age less trite than I'd otherwise find them.

What really stands out to me though, about this film and all of these early films of Woo is how intensely, undeniably homoerotic they are. In my mind they are all absolutely classics of gay cinema and I can't see how anyone could read them differently. Well of course people can read them differently, even the film's Wikipedia page quotes Woo as apparently doubting the queer reading, with another quote from some critic saying the HK audience wouldn't have read the film that way. But regardless, the films are absolutely charged with homoerotism, a Fujoshi would lose years of her life writing A Better Tomorrow doujinshi. This is as BL coded as anything that's ever existed. Another critic quoted on Wiki feels the film's repression of sexuality throws doubt on the queer argument, but I think it's exactly that which gives the film its homosexual charge. It features women, and it's more or less free from misogyny, but the women in these films are non entities, Woo is distinctly uninterested in the women in his films. They're set dressing, plot devices, props for plausible deniability, there are no cheeky or steamy sex scenes. All the love that exists in the world of these movies is between men. They're the only ones who understand one another, who sacrifice and ultimately die for one another. All the repressed sex in Woo's films is sublimated into over the top phallic gunplay of increasing excess and intensity. The gunfights are always stylish, the protagonists either self possessed or in the throes of ecstacy as they're riddling or being riddled themselves with holes. And that's before you consider all the other things like the emphasis on stylish dress sense and some of the weird religious overtones of The Killer.

A Better Tomorrow 2 (1987)

I liked the first film but I loved this one. Things get cranked up to 100. The plot and writing is far more ludicrous, it feels almost like a cross between the first film and an episode of Twin Peaks at times. The melodrama goes beyond the overly earnest sort featured in the first film, and has an unhinged near abstract quality to it. And yet it still oozes cool and by the end of the film we're firmly in highly stylized bullet ballet orgies of violence territory. But the final scene is still less long and deranged than the hospital battle at the end of Hard Boiled and so hits a sweet spot where I don't start switching off and all the killing doesn't start just washing over me (Hard Boiled is still great though!).
 
Last edited:
Glad you enjoyed the 2 Better Tomorrow films.
I feel that it is possible to see things in different ways. There doesn't have to be anything Gay in male friends being loyal, protecting each other or even sacrificing themselves.

Star Trek is about a future with a one world government run by the Catholic church. The Enterprise is run by Kirk, another name for a church.
They're going into space to push their religion. The Spanish mission to invade England to bring Catholicism back was called the Enterprise etc.
But it's not really,it's just explorers in space.

Interesting post and I enjoyed reading it.
 
Otomo said:
Glad you enjoyed the 2 Better Tomorrow films.
I feel that it is possible to see things in different ways. There doesn't have to be anything Gay in male friends being loyal, protecting each other or even sacrificing themselves.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah for sure, I was a bit hyperbolic when I said I don't know how anyone could read the film differently. I think the films work on both a literal level and as a metaphor for romantic male on male longing. Considering the immense mainstream popularity of the film in 80s Asia I can imagine for some people the films even represent some vision of idealised heterosexual masculinity. Like all good art it comes down to perspective.

For me personally though, an intense thinly veiled queer longing seemed to run right through the core of these films. At certain points the veil seemed so thin it was sheer. Like the whole dynamic and dialogue between Ah Jong and Li in the Killer. Is it an ill fated friendship, or a true love that fate foreclosed from the beginning. And even little incidental things like Ken's weird flame sucking habit in A Better Tomorrow 2 haha.

I know Woo denies any intention of imbuing the films with this subtext, but whether it was accidental or deliberate, I don't think it matters and it's all only to the films credit and benefit that they can be different things at the same time.
 
There's nothing wrong with having your own weird headcannon on movies but pushing it on others as the only possible interpretation that everyone should see as well is just incredibly narcissistic.
 
Ceefax, believing one's own perception to be fact (displaying a complete lack of self-awareness in the process) is also a trait shared by many-a-narcissist. 'Tis also linked to autism (or at least tunnel vision/struggling see other pov), so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, this one time~

For my part, I found Vash's post to be interesting, too: 'twas his personal insight into the genre/Woo, rather than him telling meeee I'm gay for liking Woo. If that were the case, we'd be having words, as I'm as straight as a curved arrow.

That aside, Asian stuff in general has this thing with masculinity where the total lack of femininity can make it feel a bit... weird at times; even in the realm of anime with shounen's nakama trope (NarutoxSasgay). Manly tears Kenshiro + male bonding are the focus, with women sidelined. Or, say, in games like Yakuza where shirts are ripped off, for totally straight mano-to-mano (🫦) showdowns, and only kyoudaiii arouses Kiryuu. Women? Pssssh, not unless a surrogate daughter in order to avoid sex/romance, or in Asura's Wrath where immediately women are killed off/kidnapped, in order to unite two men in grief/anger to become the ultimate nakama duo. Men fighting together against the odds is just pure unadulterated manliness taken to extremes. Hong Kong Woo or otherwise.

It's partly because these sort of things are aimed at the male demographic, and partly because the rule of cool doesn't include femininity, aka the polar opposite of masculinity. Somewhere along the way, you end up with brotherhood/heroic bloodshed to the bitter end with a verrrrry loyal friend; totally non-homo. If anyone has watched the Koike Lupin films, note how Jigen/Goemon's manly gun/sword flicks feel tonally different to Fujiko's femme fatale approach--they don't mesh, despite same director.

...Err, anyway: ASIA/Woo. I have only seen Hard-Boiled... and Face/off. Hard-Boiled certainly goes with what Vash describes, or at least I can visualise an extension of it. Ordered the Better Tomorrow trilogy. Will watch. One day. Maybe. Even Face-off, where Travolta has a wife/teenage daughter, kinda ties into the... homoerotic? undertones: two men take the face of the other, better understanding each other by swapping lives. Mortal enemies becoming one, ooo.

On the topic asian cinema, Bittersweet Lief is one of my favu films. And I think that sums up this topic best, albeit not at all in the over the top Hong Kong action way: the lead in that falls for his boss's woman, and his life falls apart. But 'tis anything other than a romance: he's in the love with the idea of this woman; the whimsy of her, and the escapism she provides as he closes his eyes. They have no relationship. The film is all about men and guns and loyalty and betrayal. But much like in FotNS where Yuria remains a goal ever out of reach, so too does this woman as men murder each other. That's the macho/manly code of honour, even if no heroic sidekick.

Aight, that's my lot. Going back to retirement/suicidal inclinations now. Roy did not ban me as requested, thus one more. Fare-thee-well~
 
Last edited:
Back
Top