Any review is about the personal opinion of the reviewer. If a reviewer didn't like something they watched, for whatever reason, they are entitled and expected to report on that. Just because you don't agree with it does not make the reviewer wrong, just that they had a difference of opinion with you. If they were only allowed to present a positive picture of everything they saw then they would be misleading people and not doing their job properly.kupoartist said:
The meteoric rise of manga in the UK, according to Japan
- Thread starter Paul
- Start date
Differences of 'opinion' are fine so long as an opinion is actually substantiated. A review that cites 'it was boring' and 'it was too depressing' isn't a review. It's a curriculum vitae for the position of village idiot. The review also clearly flags up 'popular opinion' to such a degree that you get the sense that they'll do anything to go against it.
Oh yes, the almighty shield of 'it's just an opinion'. You wouldn't say no to fascism if I gave a poor opinion of it, would you? There is such a thing as a wrong opinion, and the whole point is that the reviewer's opinion is utter rubbish and it taints the site. But thanks for stating the obvious anyway.
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
Personaly, the only reason why it's a rise of manga and not a rise of anime is that it's not on TV. Simple as that.
kupoartist said:
Just a couple of things about the above comment?
1) Do you dislike the entire site based upon that one review?
2) We'd be more than happy to post up your review of Grave of the Fireflies, should you feel that the review was innaccurate in your own personal opinion and did not defend its position at all. We will quite happily place both side by side so that everyone can see what each other thought.
Should you want to do your own review, PM me with it (either here or on UKA) and I will personally put it up.
I won't deny that I tend towards the over-judgemental, but a review of that nature is on par with holocaust denial to me.trav said:
Challenging me and hoping i'd back down would have been altogether more effective if I had any kind of incentive to improve your website for you.trav said:
kupoartist said:
My apologies if you have taken that as a personal attack on yourself. That was not the intention. I was merely offering to you the option of doing a review that showcased your own thoughts and feelings on the film. Obviously you have declined and I shall leave it at that.
Trav wasn't challenging you hoping you'd back down, he was actually asking you if you would like to contribute - the same thing happened on the forum when someone else disagreed about something and so they put their money where their mouth was, stood up and gave their opinion.
Maybe if you stopped being offended by everything you might have a happier time on teh intarweb?
Maybe if you stopped being offended by everything you might have a happier time on teh intarweb?
It's not as though Grave of the Fireflies is the most entertaining film around. Depressing yes. Fun? No. It's easy to be caught out if you're not in the mood for it. Kiddy death is an acquired taste I guess.
(I think it's a damn good film but never had the energy to watch it a second time, so it's not much in the way of value for money as I don't find it very re-watchable)
In terms of giving popular films low scores, I'd have to give Place Promised in our early days about a 4/10... a film needs more qualities than just being pretty!
*stokes the flame* :twisted:
(I think it's a damn good film but never had the energy to watch it a second time, so it's not much in the way of value for money as I don't find it very re-watchable)
In terms of giving popular films low scores, I'd have to give Place Promised in our early days about a 4/10... a film needs more qualities than just being pretty!
*stokes the flame* :twisted:
I find it bizarre that people get so irate about such a small matter - the Grave of the Fireflies review was written by a 16 year old, who found it boring and depressing.
Whilst depressing is probably a given, boring is boring. Schindler's List was compelling (its the only film I've ever been to where the audience sat through the end credits in silence and gave it a standing ovation at the end). It caught the attention of everyone in the theatre, and Grave failed to make a mark on this one reviewer. It wasn't posted to be contentious, but to reflect the opinions of a certain group of people, "village idiot" or otherwise. It was then debated sensibly in the website forum, where we encourage debate, and everyone got their say.
Regarding Trav's offer - people who complain about a situation but do nothing to change it are complicit in the act itself.
Whilst depressing is probably a given, boring is boring. Schindler's List was compelling (its the only film I've ever been to where the audience sat through the end credits in silence and gave it a standing ovation at the end). It caught the attention of everyone in the theatre, and Grave failed to make a mark on this one reviewer. It wasn't posted to be contentious, but to reflect the opinions of a certain group of people, "village idiot" or otherwise. It was then debated sensibly in the website forum, where we encourage debate, and everyone got their say.
Regarding Trav's offer - people who complain about a situation but do nothing to change it are complicit in the act itself.
I don't think Kupoartist has a problem with the fact that UKA's review of Grave of the Fireflies diverges from her own opinion, rather that the review itself is too short and fails to adequately criticize the content of a classic film beyond a few superficial complaints of boredom. It has probably turned away a fair few interested viewers, which is a shame because Grave of the Fireflies is one of the greatest animated movies of all time. Yes it's depressing, but that's the point; it's based on a true story and exploits the childish innocence of Ghibli's animation to convey the absolute horror of war. And I've only watched it once too - never again!!
With regards to the offer of writing a counter-review, whether or not Kupoartist decides to contribute, UKA obviously chose to publish the original review and as such, will have to accept the full brunt of criticism coming its way. It's not really Kupoartist's responsibility to sort out. The quality of writing will reflect on the image of the site itself; one of the pitfalls of running a more community driven website.
I'm not looking to start a cross-site flaming war or anything like that, these are just my thoughts on the Grave issue. And just so random people know, we're discussing this review:
http://www.uk-anime.net/review.asp?IntID=102
With regards to the offer of writing a counter-review, whether or not Kupoartist decides to contribute, UKA obviously chose to publish the original review and as such, will have to accept the full brunt of criticism coming its way. It's not really Kupoartist's responsibility to sort out. The quality of writing will reflect on the image of the site itself; one of the pitfalls of running a more community driven website.
I'm not looking to start a cross-site flaming war or anything like that, these are just my thoughts on the Grave issue. And just so random people know, we're discussing this review:
http://www.uk-anime.net/review.asp?IntID=102
butch-cassidy
Straw Hat Pirate
*Walks in, freezes and slowly backs out*
Ok guys, perhaps this is best left to rest. Ok?
Ok guys, perhaps this is best left to rest. Ok?
Once again, I reiterate that if an editorial choice is made to publish such a review, it is not the duty of a casual passer-by who disagrees with it to come and clean up their mess. The anime review site marketplace is saturated enough that if someone sees a review of something that misses the mark some, they can go off somewhere else and learn to favor that site. Also, this isn't the case of an 'unfavourable review'. The rating places Grave of the Fireflies below almost absolutely everything in your database. (Exceptions being Battle Vixens, Burst Angel, Galerians, Gundam F91, Lady Death, Landlock, Makyu Senjo, Najica: Blitz Tactics, The later two Robotechs and Streetfighter Alpha. Nice company!)
Ok then, it's like finding out that someone thinks the Opera Scene in Final Fantasy 6 is the most moving drammatic moment in human history. It's a failure of judgement that colours the credability of the person who holds that belief. Also, the comparison might be... you know... that strange substance called, humour? Perhaps?RossUKA said:
The Grave of the Fireflies review isn't really what is at issue here, is it? The fuss is on the side of ukanime staff who took exception to my short, detatched jab at the quality of a review which I felt demonstrated a lack of editorial quality control.RossUKA said:
sonia_leong
Dandy Guy, in Space
*motions with hands*
Back on topic.... XD
I was mega surprised at how well my stuff was received by the Japanese. Considering the opposition I get to my stuff from Western purists, I thought the Japanese would be baying for my blood, but they've actually turned out to be more accepting of my work than most British/US otaku. Shows how to them, manga is KOMIKKSU is comics.
Here is a scan of the actual newspaper, it took up almost all of the back page!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/so ... un-web.jpg
I would like to see manga and anime getting a better profile amongst the mainstream, without people like Kelly Osbourne making it seem freakier than it really is. T_T
Back on topic.... XD
I was mega surprised at how well my stuff was received by the Japanese. Considering the opposition I get to my stuff from Western purists, I thought the Japanese would be baying for my blood, but they've actually turned out to be more accepting of my work than most British/US otaku. Shows how to them, manga is KOMIKKSU is comics.
Here is a scan of the actual newspaper, it took up almost all of the back page!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/so ... un-web.jpg
I would like to see manga and anime getting a better profile amongst the mainstream, without people like Kelly Osbourne making it seem freakier than it really is. T_T
My own issue with the whole "world manga" thing is not with the artists but with the marketing. Why is there such an insistence on referring to it as "manga" when we all know it as comics? Manga as defined for use in English is that subset of comics whose point of origin is Japan. The worst case of this marketing scam would be Princess Ai, dreamt up by the CEO of Tokyopop, released under a fictitious "cool" pen name, DJ Milky, all of which is designed to mislead the consumer on multiple levels that this is different and better than a comic written by a comic publishing executive in the US. It is that kind of cynicsm that completely and utterly annoys the hell out of me and makes me set agains the whole world manga labelling. I am sure that your work is absolutely first rate but I am absolutely put off this kind of thing due to Tokyopop's and others' designs to mislead the consumer. I will be the first to admit that it is a childish and irrational stance to take but that kind of marketing will only serve to alienate consumers like myself even while it stimulates others into buying into it.sonia_leong said:
Personally I do and alway have loved comics from the Dandy and Beano through Marvel (never much interested in most DC stuff for some reason), 2000AD and manga. One of my personal favourites comics of the moment would be Sinister Dexter, which is serialised in 2000AD. At this time there seems to be a lot more manga available than comics and there is a great diversity in their content but none of that makes them superior to western comics, just different. Western comics can tell similar stories, they just aren't quite as common as they are in manga.
Despite all of that, congratulations on breaking it in Japan
.kupoartist said:
I didn't find it funny. Offensive yes, not funny.
As you've also stated you're not prepared to accept that eveyone has an opinion, there's no point arguing with you as your "opinion" clearly overrides everyone elses by default. You don't like the review or the site - unlike you I can accept an opinion, but won't lose sleep over it ^^
That's my last reply to you on the matter.
Sorry Paul, I don't want to turn this into a flame war, and apologise if I've made the thread more uncomfortable.
In an attempt to leave something constructive and on topic in my wake... ^^
Last year Sony asked me to write an article on a new "Manga" game for the PSP called Key of Heaven. The marketing agent who approached me had already spent a great deal of time and money marketing it as such, and hadn't realised that the artist was Korean :roll:
Sometimes it's genuine ignorance, but in Tokyopop's case, it does seem deliberately misleading. Buyer beware I guess...
That said, Fred Perry and Ben Dunn have been doing passable manga-inspired work for years, and I've always found their titles enjoyable when I've read them. Sometimes it's nice to see Western interpretations of Japanese styles. It's why I support Sweatdrop ^^