The Future of Anime Distribution - The HD Angle

[ayase]

While browsing CD Japan the other day I came across this. Needless to say I was quite excited. Would this finally be something I would be willing to buy a Blu-ray player for? Especially seeing as though Bandai / Emotion's past releases of GITS & Patlabor on Blu-ray had English subtitles and had been tempting me for a while... oh, wait. It doesn't. The sheer stupidity of this decision amazed me. Because If they honestly believe that HD Zeta won't be ripped, subbed and uploaded within a matter of days (hours even, given that the subs are readily available) of being released then they deserve to lose every penny it costs them. People won't need Blu-ray players and HDTV's to watch it this way either, so all the industries lose.

Isn't the move into HD finally the time for Distributors to get their acts together and realise that the Anime market is now a global one, and that market protectionism doesn't work in the era of the Internet? I for one favour legal downloads (it would certainly save me buying a blu-ray player) but if that's too hard for them, surely region free worldwide releases can't be? Given the extra capacity of Blu-ray discs there is no good reason to leave sub tracks off, especially if the title in question has already been released subbed on DVD. The upcoming worldwide release of the Gunbuster Gattai Movies set and Freedom on Blu-ray which offers a glimmer of hope in this department. However, as much as I like Gunbuster (though I'd rather have had the series) the region coding that Blu-ray bafflingly supports puts me off buying a Region B UK player in case things come out on Region A that I want.

So for now I still won't be buying a Blu-ray player. It's a shame I won't be able to support these releases, but the industry really has to convince me that it's heading in the right direction before I start shelling out on both HD hardware and releases - and at the moment, I remain unconvinced.

 

[chaos]

It not being region free is something, but the price, almost 350 us dollars, for 5 discs that could possibly fit into one and have the same quality?
well... I simply can't believe their greedy. I understand they have a business and they need to make money, but the way they are doing it is so wrong..

 

[Is out of here]

I still really dont see the point of bluray/HD

Its just does not seem a big jump from DVD to bluray to justify me buying one.

were as the jump from VHS tape to DVD was obviouse and needed.

 

[melonpan]

Blame the Japanese committees, and the people who hold up rights processes', and the fat cats who solely care about their own industry (this is inclusive of the committees).

Things are improving, just look around...

Akira just got announced for Blu-ray in Japan and America simultaneously. Freedom and the Gunbuster movies are simultaneously worldwide... And Funimation is supposedly releasing an entire Blu-ray boxset of Samurai 7 in America before any kind of Japanese release, which is unheard of and very epic, there are rumours of the FMA movie coming out in the US on Blu-ray as well...

Things aren't going to change, the Japanese are the only ones who have any power over this kind of stuff - they don't listen or give a damn about anything other than their own industry. Unless non-Japanese distributors invest more in the production of anime to get themselves on the committee to push for simultaneous releases (like Geneon USA getting faster releases) it just isn't going to happen. Not to mention what Gonzo are doing...

Specifically about Zeta Gundam though, there's some licensing issue as to why it's not coming out, apparently. I'm no Gundam guru though.

 

[chaos]

I don't think that it's that they don't care, it's more like their market is 99% japan and 1% elsewhere and back importing would cut their profits in the market they get their bread and butter...

 

[ayase]

Specifically about Zeta Gundam though, there's some licensing issue as to why it's not coming out, apparently. I'm no Gundam guru though.

If it's to do with the songs like it was with the DVDs I still don't know what the problem is. Who releases Zeta in Japan? Bandai. Who releases Zeta in the US? Bandai. If a company can't licence things to their own subsiduaries that's clearly a crappy business model.

Also, a lot of the releases you mention are American melonpan. At the moment I don't think it's possible to unlock Blu-ray region codes - and even if they are being released region free I still don't like the fact that it's there. Giving the studios the option to region code is like giving them a Death Note. They might not use it at first, but if they decide it can make things better for them you can be sure they will.

 

[chaos]

AFAIK is not possible yet to unlock Bluray. A lot of titles are coming out as region free, but that doesn't mean that they will not enforce the region thing once they find it suitable... Like you said, it's a Death note in the wrong hands.

 

[Yagami]

I watched 5 centimetre a second, the girl who leapt through time and appleseed exmachina in bluray/hd, and yes, it's definitely worth it! :d

Anyway, if you want a bluray player; Just get a ps3. You'll be able to play bluray, and you'll have the newest games console for only about £100 extra!

 

[melonpan]

I don't think that it's that they don't care, it's more like their market is 99% japan and 1% elsewhere and back importing would cut their profits in the market they get their bread and butter...

When the CEO of Funimation says the Japanese have no facts or figures to back this up, that just doesn't hold up (with respect to reverse importing). Also, the Japanese DVD market is strange, other markets certainly don't only take up 1% of sales (I'm assuming you mean physical media as a pose to licensing fees and all the other ways the Japanese make their money). Some Japanese series on DVD sell less than 1000 copies, some on the other hand sell nearer 100,000 (Code Geass). Lots of anime released in America sells tens of thousands of copies, though.

AFAIK is not possible yet to unlock Bluray. A lot of titles are coming out as region free, but that doesn't mean that they will not enforce the region thing once they find it suitable... Like you said, it's a Death note in the wrong hands.

Apparently the DRM has been cracked so far, hopefully it's just a matter of time before regions are cracked.

If it's to do with the songs like it was with the DVDs I still don't know what the problem is. Who releases Zeta in Japan? Bandai. Who releases Zeta in the US? Bandai. If a company can't licence things to their own subsiduaries that's clearly a crappy business model.

Bandai don't own the songs, another company probably does. Bandai just are just part of Namco Bandai, who also own Sunrise, who do the animation. Music is a whole different ball-game.

 

[Bail]

Ive got a PS3, I bought it off a friend for cheap so I've lucked out, seeing the difference between the two the video is alot crisper, it makes for good viewing. Playing games on High definition is something different, the main difference between SD and HD is the fact that you can see very small details, like small text would become clear in HD, it doesnt really apply that much to anime due to the fact that the animation is large but I have yet to watch a movie in HD so I guess i'll find out if it was worth the hype

 

[chaos]

I don't think that it's that they don't care, it's more like their market is 99% japan and 1% elsewhere and back importing would cut their profits in the market they get their bread and butter...

When the CEO of Funimation says the Japanese have no facts or figures to back this up, that just doesn't hold up (with respect to reverse importing). Also, the Japanese DVD market is strange, other markets certainly don't only take up 1% of sales (I'm assuming you mean physical media as a pose to licensing fees and all the other ways the Japanese make their money). Some Japanese series on DVD sell less than 1000 copies, some on the other hand sell nearer 100,000 (Code Geass). Lots of anime released in America sells tens of thousands of copies, though.

As we say back home, they are the owners of the ball. It's true as long as they say so, if you know what I mean.
As for my 99% x 1% it is totally hypothetical, but I had in mind all sort of merchandise, not only DVD figures.

AFAIK is not possible yet to unlock Bluray. A lot of titles are coming out as region free, but that doesn't mean that they will not enforce the region thing once they find it suitable... Like you said, it's a Death note in the wrong hands.

Apparently the DRM has been cracked so far, hopefully it's just a matter of time before regions are cracked.

It always is a matter of time. I just hope it's not too long.

 

[Outlawstar]

I still have absolutoly no urge to upgrade from DVDs.

 

[kupocake]

While browsing CD Japan the other day I came across this. Needless to say I was quite excited. Would this finally be something I would be willing to buy a Blu-ray player for?

Wait... I don't think it needs to be pointed out that I have a thing for Zeta ... but why on earth would it be the series to tip you into owning a Blu-Ray player? It's an incredibly low-fi series and barely needed the quality conversion from VHS to DVD. Lots of extra pixels aren't going to make it prettier or more true to form. I'd say this box-set is a good advertisement for precisely what's wrong with the rush to HD. The ZG movies I could understand, and Gundam 00 HD is essential, but this release is entirely superfluous.

Plus for the $700 plus shipping it's going to cost you to buy the entire BR Zeta Gundam, you may as well fill your room with Zeta Gunpla. Then paint your walls Green, get a HD camera and stop motion animate your own re-enactment of key scenes. Extra points for making your own laser sounds 'kuchapow! Vwom Vwom! KCHHHKKK'

The Zeta Gundam licensing problem mentioned in this thread is that Neil Sedaka composed the melodies to "Zeta - Toki wo Koete" and "Mizu no Hoshi he Ai wo Komete". Whilst Zeta is a big enough property in Japan to justify the royalties (or perhaps in Japan the company pays nothing extra under the terms of their original contract with Sedaka), it's clearly a niche series abroad where quite hefty royalties would have to be paid, if Sedaka doesn't outright block their release. This doesn't prevent the release of the series, just the use of the opening songs.

 

[ayase]

::shrugs::

I guess I just like older animation, and I've been impressed by what I've seen of cleaned up HD animation so far. I'd go so far as to say it's far better and more noticable when older animation is rendered in HD as you get all the detail of the hand painted cells and backgrounds as opposed to modern computer coloured stuff. If the original Zeta source material looks as bad as you're suggesting wouldn't HD make the movies look worse when the old / new transitions take place?

You clearly know more about the music situation than I do - any idea why the Hong Kong release got the original music then? :? Well, it's a lesson for anyone making a TV series - have the music done in-house and retain the rights yourself...

Edit: I see you added a bit in the middle there... I'll ignore it as I'm not sure if it's meant to be light hearted or insulting.

 

[kupocake]

I'm not sure if it's meant to be light hearted or insulting.

Light Heartedly Insulting.

I guess I just like older animation, and I've been impressed by what I've seen of cleaned up HD animation so far. I'd go so far as to say it's far better and more noticable when older animation is rendered in HD as you get all the detail of the hand painted cells and backgrounds as opposed to modern computer coloured stuff.

I can understand that so far as high budget movie animation is concerned (I'm severely tempted by the Blu-Ray version of Sleeping Beauty coming out this month, despite getting the DVD only last month. And not just because of the virtual castle tour!), but that level of detail simply doesn't exist in something like Zeta Gundam, which was produced on a tight budget and at speed for analogue NTSC television broadcast.

If the original Zeta source material looks as bad as you're suggesting wouldn't HD make the movies look worse when the old / new transitions take place?

Possibly. Some of the movie reviews stressed that the transition was jarring, but from the scenes I've seen on youtube, it's not especially noticeable, so I suppose that's an exaggerated version of the difference between DVD and BR treatments of the material.

any idea why the Hong Kong release got the original music then?

Well, I know nothing specific, but Gundam has been routinely released throughout Asia since the early days, so either the music has been tied to home video release contractually since the 80s, or there's a big enough market there to justify the expense. Even if Hong Kong itself specifically gets roughed up by everyone's favourite artificial newtype.

Or I could be cynical and suggest that since it's from Hong Kong, they probably aren't paying royalties to Bandai, let alone someone who leant two melodies to a couple of songs on the soundtrack.

 

[ayase]

Light Heartedly Insulting.

Fair enough! I sometimes have a tendancy to take things the wrong way - the odd or a :wink: goes a long way to reassuring me... but a zaku holding a sign is even better.

that level of detail simply doesn't exist in something like Zeta Gundam, which was produced on a tight budget and at speed for analogue NTSC television broadcast.

All the same, I'd still like to see for myself (and I will, I'll be d/l-ing the fansubs if Bandai can't be arsed to put subs on) as even the Japanese DVDs of the original MSG look pretty damn good cleaned up and remastered.

Some of the movie reviews stressed that the transition was jarring, but from the scenes I've seen on youtube, it's not especially noticeable, so I suppose that's an exaggerated version of the difference between DVD and BR treatments of the material.

I've seen the first movie and despite my love for the original animation I did find myself wishing they'd re-animated the whole thing because of the transitions. One particular scene where Quattro / Char is in a room lit up with new-fangled lighting effects and he exits a door back to 1985 is particularly bad. Also for some inexplicable reason they changed Kamille's hair colour from blue to green. Did they think the transitions didn't highlight the differences enough? :roll:

Or I could be cynical and suggest that since it's from Hong Kong, they probably aren't paying royalties to Bandai, let alone someone who leant two melodies to a couple of songs on the soundtrack.

Nah, it's on the official release. Sounds more likely to be a case of the US not warranting the royalty payments then. I guess we can expect the same again if it ever gets released on Blu over there...

 

[kupocake]

Fingers crossed for Gundam 00's US Release by the way. If the latest, most Wing-like Gundam fails to reignite stateside interest in the franchise, I don't give much for the future of any Gundam releases, HD or otherwise.

 

[ayase]

Judging by (or wildly reading too much into) some of the things being talked about on the Beez thread it's not all that unrealistic to hope 00 will get a UK Blu release, if Beez/Bandai continue the pattern with Gunbuster and Freedom. If these releases do turn out to be region free as some are suggesting, I'll feel fairly vindicated in my stance on region coding.