The 'bounce'

Attractive male protagonists, exploitation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
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Shiro Yui

Brigade Leader
It’s no secret that games like Dead or Alive and Rumble Roses sell on, well, let’s call it the ‘bounce’. The fact that developers know that regardless how bad the game is, the ‘bounce’ will make sure it sells. Is this exploitation of the female form? Of course, but what about the guys?

We know that in the anime industry, bishounen and yaoi cater for the female audience by having attractive male protagonists, who are, erm, open minded, isn’t this exploitation as well?

What are your thoughts?
 
In the end, bishounen and bishoujo is exploitation, although not necessarily of the depicted sex but of the people it panders to. The creators exploit the tendency in certain groups to gravitate towards certain themes, characters and looks in an attempt to sell their products.
 
Isn't it that way for most things and not just anime? How often will a movie have the totally wrong kind of leading male just because the makers know his face etc will pull in the punters?!

I don't see that there's any harm in any of it; it's what makes us happy ^__^

I'm not actually sure what point you're trying to get across - if any. Are you saying sexy birds are fine, but is it right for girls to have the same thing? Or are you saying that within the realms of what you might think of as a male targetted anime, it's wrong to add bishounen?!
The latter is why you have harem anime where the protagonist is an ugly geek in glasses; it's to appeal to the poor old saps with no love life and no chance of one. It's to make them feel they have a chance to pull sexy birds :lol:
Maybe it's the same for a good deal of "straight" bishounen anime (not all bishounen are gay you know :wink: ). Target audience is sad lonely females with not much chance at romance can lose themselves in a fantasy world of gorgeous guys falling for the plain girl (think Escaflowne, Fushigi Yuugi, Hana Yori Dango).
If it works; milk it :lol:

I can tell you that not all yaoi/shounen-ai is filled with bishounen. Earlier examples of yaoi tended to be full of butch chisel jawed guys with very little appeal to the female audience they were targetted at.
More modern yaoi/shounen-ai seems to have caught on to the fact that females want gorgeous doe-eyed men instead and for the mostpart, this is what you get nowadays!
I think the appeal for a lot of females is the old adage of thinking they can change the gay guys preferences (which is the reason so many gay celebs have tons of female fans :wink: ).
 
I think the so-called "exploitation" is more pronounced in anime because it's a clear design decision, drawn (probably) by a fanboy for the fanboys. With live action, it's not such a problem because the majority of mainstream actors/resses prefer to keep a hold of their dignity and so are more resistant to stupid panty shots or clearly homosexual innuendo.

"Hollyoaks" is a good example of sexual exploitation in the mainstream. It exists only to provide the screen with 30 minutes of empty headed, pretty faces.

I tend to stear clear of anime obviously devoted to this physica kind of exploitation, though it annoys when it appears in shows that are border-line between serious and camp-- Kiddy Grade is a good example of a supposed serious sci-fi premise turned completely upside down and confused by a disturbing exploitative undercurrent.

I don't really see say Faye Valentine of Cowboy Bebop as fan service because the way she looks is within the context of her personality and her place within the show. On the other hand, the way the Major dresses in Ghost in the Shell is up for debate.

On the male side of things Jyo-Oh-Sei, Get Backers and Night Head Genesis are good examples of anime with obvious male homosexual undertones for the ladies. I can take it unless it interferes with the natural "logic" of the mentioned series narrative - at which point it steps over the line and becomes pure and simple exploitation and I lose interest. That said, I suppose everything that fits within a genre is exploitation... I like zombie exploitation ;)
 
Paul said:
On the other hand, the way the Major dresses in Ghost in the Shell is up for debate.
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She is more clothed throughout 2nd Gig. Although I'm sure they've decided to enhance her chest again.
 
Paul said:
I tend to stear clear of anime obviously devoted to this physica kind of exploitation, though it annoys when it appears in shows that are border-line between serious and camp-- Kiddy Grade is a good example of a supposed serious sci-fi premise turned completely upside down and confused by a disturbing exploitative undercurrent.
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One anime that can be said to be practically ruined by out-of-place fanservice would have to be Divergence Eve. Those character models really have no place in what is a half-decent, serious sci-fi plot.
 
Hmm... This isn't something i've ever given much thought to to be honest.

To me, if an anime is entertaining it dosn't matter how much ( or how little :wink: ) the characters are wearing, where the camera ends up or how well endowed they are, ( With the possible exception of Divergeance Eve... Come on, those breasts had a mind of their own. :p ) i'm still going to watch it, and more than likely enjoy it. ( And just so you know, yes I still enjoyed Divergeance Eve, despite the overzelous mammery glands. :p )

Sometimes these kind of things, if they hit you at the right time, can bring a smile to your face or make you chuckle at their ridiculousness.

Is it exploitation? Maybe, but then anything can be classed as explotation if you look at it hard enough.
 
Miaka-chan said:
I don't see that there's any harm in any of it; it's what makes us happy ^__^

I'm not actually sure what point you're trying to get across - if any. Are you saying sexy birds are fine, but is it right for girls to have the same thing? Or are you saying that within the realms of what you might think of as a male targetted anime, it's wrong to add bishounen?!
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hmmm, i'm not sayng anything any of the above, i'm simply asking whether yaoi/bishounen is just as degrading as henati or fan service.

i don't really have a point that i'm trying to get across, just simply a topic to discuss that dosn't revolve around;

'whats you favourite........'
 
Personally I don’t see it as 'exploitation' but I do find it very distasteful. There are so many series and games I don’t go anywhere near because of the amount of fan service they 'provide' the reader/viewer.
 
Exploitation? Only if they were real people...

(professional cosplayers when used to promote anime for example, that's more in the right area - anyone ever seen a bit of Kekko Kamen live action? ewww!)
 
I think fan service is appropriate within the confines of a comedy most of all. While well-endowed/scantily clad women obviously can form part of a serious show, it's not the kind of show that I really find myself watching. Something like Vandread where breasts were bouncing around all over the place was hilarious and would certainly not be described as exploitation.

As far as exploitation of the male form...I suppose that, again, as it is not present in the various titles I watch it has never really been a consideration for me.
 
Ushio said:
Exploitation? Only if they were real people...

(professional cosplayers when used to promote anime for example, that's more in the right area - anyone ever seen a bit of Kekko Kamen live action? ewww!)
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interesting, never thought about it like that. so you're saying that it would only be exploitation if it involved real life?

i suspose that kind of makes sense, however, when you say 'real people', do you mean in terms of live-action (Eastenders, O.C ) or real life (reality shows, documentaries)?
 
HiroYui said:
interesting, never thought about it like that. so you're saying that it would only be exploitation if it involved real life?

i suspose that kind of makes sense, however, when you say 'real people', do you mean in terms of live-action (Eastenders, O.C ) or real life (reality shows, documentaries)?
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To me a drawing's a drawing regardless of whether it's put in animated sequence or not. You can't hurt a picture, even if you poke it in the eye! How it affects the actors or the people doing the artwork is something else entirely. Also the kinds of attitudes these drawings encourage in their audiences is up for debate. I guess I took the subject too literally and dodgy perverts watching their sexual kicks is the real subject at hand! :lol:

In terms of live-action it depends on the subject matter really. Many documentaries exploit their subject (like watching children dying in hospitals for example) and emotionally trying scenes in acting can still have an affect. (and yeah, real-life porn must mess with the peeps involved even if it's not real)

On topic, pretty boys don't bother me so much as pretty girls as they are rarely made subservient because of their good looks...
 
Guyver 0 said:
by bounce are we talking jiggling breasts? cos i'm not 100% clear
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He's talking about fanservice in general, if you read the original post, including bishounen (pretty boys) for girls, bishoujo and ridiculously emphasised characteristics to drive home a point.
 
Is the term ‘fanservice’ acknowledged as covering both sides of the male/female equation?

I think the term 'exploitation' is a little ambigious in this context, especially as we are taking about 2D images rather than real people, so it's not obvious who is exploiting who - the anime creator is 'using' the imagery and selling it - the watcher is buying and 'getting' it – so you would think everyone is happy

Fanservice that panders to the male audience is a lot more blatant and visually obvious – after all is it not a fairly well excepted fact that males are 'stimulated' more visually than anything else? – It’s this that means it’s rare it ever goes unnoticed and perhaps gets criticised correspondingly.

I’d need some confirmation from the girls on this, but my thinking is that ‘fanservice’ for females is generally more subtle and not necessarily always a visual thing. I was recently reminded of the whole ‘Mr Darcy’ phenomenon when I strayed onto a bbc4 program all about ‘Chick-Lit’ – this, whilst veering a little from the anime argument, has to be a classic example of pandering to a female audience - its just not quite as obvious as the pandering that goes on for male audience since, ignoring film/tv adaptions, its all contained within a book. Was Jane Austin 'exploiting' men or the male image in her novels? I think a lot comes down to your definition of what ‘exploitation’ consists of.
Not entirely sure what my point is with this. :?

Perhaps it makes more sense to talk about ‘degradation’ of either the female or male image when used as something to pander to what ever audience its is the author/creator is hoping to capture.

Is fanservice for females as potentially degrading to the male image as fanservice for males is to the female image?
 
Jimi-Jam said:
Is the term ‘fanservice’ acknowledged as covering both sides of the male/female equation?

I think the term 'exploitation' is a little ambigious in this context, especially as we are taking about 2D images rather than real people, so it's not obvious who is exploiting who - the anime creator is 'using' the imagery and selling it - the watcher is buying and 'getting' it – so you would think everyone is happy

Fanservice that panders to the male audience is a lot more blatant and visually obvious – after all is it not a fairly well excepted fact that males are 'stimulated' more visually than anything else? – It’s this that means it’s rare it ever goes unnoticed and perhaps gets criticised correspondingly.

I’d need some confirmation from the girls on this, but my thinking is that ‘fanservice’ for females is generally more subtle and not necessarily always a visual thing. I was recently reminded of the whole ‘Mr Darcy’ phenomenon when I strayed onto a bbc4 program all about ‘Chick-Lit’ – this, whilst veering a little from the anime argument, has to be a classic example of pandering to a female audience - its just not quite as obvious as the pandering that goes on for male audience since, ignoring film/tv adaptions, its all contained within a book. Was Jane Austin 'exploiting' men or the male image in her novels? I think a lot comes down to your definition of what ‘exploitation’ consists of.
Not entirely sure what my point is with this. :?

Perhaps it makes more sense to talk about ‘degradation’ of either the female or male image when used as something to pander to what ever audience its is the author/creator is hoping to capture.

Is fanservice for females as potentially degrading to the male image as fanservice for males is to the female image?
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Fanservice covers a whole lot more than just use of pretty girls to woo the guys and includes such things as introducing well-known characters from other series (such as Tsubasa) and providing stereotypical characters and scenarios known to appeal to the target audience. In most cases people refer to the most base form - panty shots and suchlike but its application is much broader than that.
 
Gawyn said:
Fanservice covers a whole lot more than just use of pretty girls to woo the guys and includes such things as introducing well-known characters from other series (such as Tsubasa) and providing stereotypical characters and scenarios known to appeal to the target audience. In most cases people refer to the most base form - panty shots and suchlike but its application is much broader than that.
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That makes a bit more sense to me know you say it - when I first came across the term 'fanservice' that was my logical assumption of what it refered to, only on further reading was my judgement swayed to thinking it must be 'base form' only.

In this case, the line of this thread has to be 'base form' fanservice.
 
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