Strong but Fan service nevertheless Female Anime Characters?
- Thread starter Neferpitou
- Start date
Vashdaman
Za Warudo
Yeah and thats fine, but I don't think it's sending out the right message when nearly all the strong, potentially interesting female leads fall into a certain type of sexy, i.e big eyes, big breasts and in all other regards stick thin(with a handful of tastless camera angles to occasionally cheapen them). A lot of the typical anime female characters these days tend to look very similar. We can have strong female characters that maybe are slightly bigger, do not have such freakish bug eyes, and have a slightly different hairstyle for once. I think it is important for young women(as it is for men) to have relatable heroes, or at least a bit more variety.
Now I'm not saying that over sexualised characters or shows don't have their place, sometimes a really cheesy show filled with dumb sexy cliches just hits the spot. But what I am saying is that when you are bombarded with this same unrealistic and extreme"ideal" of how a woman should look all over the place, in every show including childrens shows(which of course are still enjoyable for adults too :wink: ) such as Naruto or bleach(and countless others of course, which are probably far worse) which really do not need that kind thing in them. This leads me to suspect their is a definite lack of balance.
Jayme said:
I never claimed in any of my posts that I don't want characters to be attractive, that ws not point at all. Attractive is good, its just the overly sexualised and unrealistic stereotypes which tend to objectify women that I am tired of.
Speaking of the House of five Leaves, while I have not yet watched it, I do respect the creator for actually trying something more out of the box. Though this is really beside the point.
In regards to Tsunade for Naruto, I am well aware that her huge breasts are not necesarily her defining feature(although they are the first thing that comes to mind). But that was my point because she seems in all other regards to be a very interesting and strong character, So in a way I felt even more disappointed that they felt the need to slap legendary triple J size breasts on her, when in all regards they seem to jarr with the rest of her character and make for a baffling design choice. I mean she's supposed to be a bloody Ninja, and not only that she's a ninja in what is basically a kids show! She's not supposed to be a pornstar who doesn't need the use of her back. In contrast if you look at a character like Faye Valentine, yes she has big exposed breast's(though still not as big!) but her body type and outfit go perfectly for her character and do not jarr with the rest of the show, or seem to be a cheap cash in.
Like Jayme I don't really want to stand here and defend Naruto of all series, but this does sort of annoy me.
I find it disagreeable that the act of having breasts makes a person of questionable suitability to include in a kid show. Compared to the antics of Kakashi and Jiraiya, Hinata's irritating and calculated 'moe', and Naruto's own infamous 'oiroke no jutsu', Tsunade is a pretty weird target to single out. She's not even in the series that much, and if I were to pick a character trait that I would call out for Tsunade, her breast size would come long after her mindless gambling, her status or her penchant for punching things.
A lof of this anti-fanservice stuff seems to just be a backlash against female characters who actually have breasts, rather than other unattainable features such as a body designed to bait lolicon fans or a spineless, cutesy personality (pet hate). Merely having breasts isn't particularly sexy or fanservicey on its own. I'd say Faye Valentine is a lot more sexualised than Tsunade, even though it suits her; and I think of the two, Tsunade is the better character to aspire to be like. Not that I've ever really aspired to be like an anime female myself.
R
I find it disagreeable that the act of having breasts makes a person of questionable suitability to include in a kid show. Compared to the antics of Kakashi and Jiraiya, Hinata's irritating and calculated 'moe', and Naruto's own infamous 'oiroke no jutsu', Tsunade is a pretty weird target to single out. She's not even in the series that much, and if I were to pick a character trait that I would call out for Tsunade, her breast size would come long after her mindless gambling, her status or her penchant for punching things.
A lof of this anti-fanservice stuff seems to just be a backlash against female characters who actually have breasts, rather than other unattainable features such as a body designed to bait lolicon fans or a spineless, cutesy personality (pet hate). Merely having breasts isn't particularly sexy or fanservicey on its own. I'd say Faye Valentine is a lot more sexualised than Tsunade, even though it suits her; and I think of the two, Tsunade is the better character to aspire to be like. Not that I've ever really aspired to be like an anime female myself.
R
Vashdaman
Za Warudo
Rui said:
Oh trust me I pretty much dislike equally all those elements of Naruto you mentioned, I only sigled out Tsunade as to keep on topic.
It's not the fact that she has breasts that I find questionable, it's more to do with the fact that she has a completely ridicuous and unattainablely big pair and I don't think giving the strongest female ninja in the show also the biggest pair of breasts is a particularly inspired move by any means.
If you read my first post in this thread you will this "anti-fanservice backlash", or at least my own personal dislike for it, does not at all just revolve around characters with big breasts, I have already mentioned the stupidily skinny frames of characters amongst other things.
And while I agree Faye is hardly a good role model for young women, well Cowboy Bebop isn't really that kind of show. It is a proper mature anime which isn't trying to provide children with entertainment nor heros.
I have no problem with seedy characters or ones who have sexy body types as long as they are still inspired, rather than what I feel many are doing by riding the bandwagon for a cheap cash in.
It's all relative, since there are three times as many men in Naruto. I never even consider her breasts, at all. Kishimoto's designs, by and large are all natural. And honestly, even though its drawn, if she's got it - "flaunt it". In its basic ideology, Naruto is quite western. It's setting might be an old Japan, but its storytelling and character work wouldn't be completely a miss in a western story. It's just an odd series to attack. The fact the girl can hold her own I do find far more important. If she didn't have breasts, she'd be more "loli" than anything. Breasts aren't important in his design, and might only be relevant when there's perverted Japanese nosebleed humor. Which is bad for the guys, not the girls.
What shows -do- you like? I haven't seen Trigun but I find it hard to believe it it doesn't contain any of the genre defining shonen tropes.
(The first part (re: attractiveness) I responded to was directed at ayase.)
What shows -do- you like? I haven't seen Trigun but I find it hard to believe it it doesn't contain any of the genre defining shonen tropes.
(The first part (re: attractiveness) I responded to was directed at ayase.)
Vashdaman
Za Warudo
Jayme said:
Oh, well sorry that first part of my reply then!
Anyway I think your maybe looking slightly to much into my Nauruto comment, I wasn't really trying to attack the whole manga/anime particularly nor it's author, I was just using it as a quick example really. I know that Naruto certianly isn't the worst culprit of what I'm talking about.
Also I'm not really averse to all Shonen tropes either by any means, my main point was how I find the increased number of over sexualised, ojectified and unrepresentative female charcters unhealthy.
As for what series I like, hmm well a quick rundown of the ones that come to mind now are: Bebop of course(still probably my fav), Champloo, Trigun, Eden of the east, time of eve, SAC 1st and 2nd gig wasn't bad, Wolfs rain was a decent one I saw recently(i like wolves lol). err I can't really think right now and I'm missing some of my favs and not even including movies as I'm in a bit of a rush, so might do a MAL thing properly sometime and you can check that out for the official rundown of quality anime lol :wink: .
ayase
State Alchemist
I'm looking at this in a slightly detached manner, y'see. I think strong female characters who are sexy in the way a majority of men find attractive is a good thing because it helps shape social attitudes in a way which I would like to see them go. But - and here's the thing - I don't necessarily find the same things attractive as the vast majority of men. I find strong female characters attractive simply by virtue of *being* strong, female characters. The Revys and Motokos of the world would still be just as red hot to me if they had no curves, weighed a little more or wore jumpers and trousers. But I don't think they would be to a lot of people. I don't want to see strong female characters go back to what they were a long time ago (presented or viewed as being a negative thing) because of the sad, simple fact that being physically unattractive makes people less inclined to like you, no matter what other strengths you posses.Jayme said:
Increased?, if anything it's gone down. There's nothing as bad as Jojo's Bizarre Adventure or any of Go Nagai's work in Jump! anymore.vashdaman said:
Magazine is tame, as is Sunday. Dengeki Diaoh got better with Moeoh splitting off.
Shounen Ace is still entirely women with large breasts. Champion Red is still Champion Red, though allegedly authors have been asked to tone it down somewhat.
There's more anime that isn't shounen (seinen, novel or game adaptation) than there used to be. Most of that has tended to be more adult and fanservicy.
Vashdaman
Za Warudo
Reaper gI said:
I wasn't necessarily talking about shoen imparticular when I said the increased sexualized female characters part.
See I'm nearly in complete agreement with you Ayase, as I also want more strong Female characters, and nor do I need the curves or the typical "ideal" of western beauty to find a character hot. However I think your only looking at it from one angle. Because yes if all the strong characters presented always fit into that certain unrealistic ideal of what is hot, yeah men will wecome them. However that could also lead to men objectifying women and judging what worth a woman has by the same stupid physical ideals of these shows.
More importantly it's even worse if you look at it from a young girl's/womans angle, yes once again it's great to have strong females, but what good are they if a young Japanese/western girl cannot identify with these heroin's, as in all likelyhood none of them will ever look like probably half or three quarters of the typical anime female protagonists. Or they might have a critical view of their own bodies based on these stupid ideals. While it's great to have strong female characters doing something more unusual like being a detective or a football player or even a ninja, it not really promoting a positive self image for girls if you have to have them all as size 0 looking or with double j breasts. So many manga authors don't seem to realize the consequences of constantly promoting and emphasizing the same phsical ideals.
Once again thats why I say yeah it fine to have uber sexy strong female characters, but could we also have a few more unsual/realisticl looking ones as well. I know there are some but the balance is way off.
Neferpitou
Stand User
ayase said:
While its very common to have sexy or just average looking strong women characters in Anime/Manga. But I simply can't think of many series which have ugly strong female characters?
Apart from several in One Piece and few maybe's from Hunter x Hunter, Cryin Freeman & Tenjho Tenge are the only ones that come to mind.