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Girls with Guns said:
Heaven forbid if that were the case! I only need a few kisses... 😚
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I'm sorry for being curt but tbf I remember you making a joke one time about raping girls in parking lots in the yuri thread... my guy, generally I like you just fine but occasionally I'm like :rolleyes: (like I'm not trying to be hardcore judgey about what you're into just that really wasn't the right place for it IMO). I remember a Buffy episode where suddenly every woman in Sunnydale wanted Xander... didn't go the way he'd hoped so I'm with you on only needing a few wafer thin mints kisses!

Just Passing Through said:
There's always yaoi... (I always thought that was onomatopoeia)
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I like yaoi when it's all consensual, I know there's a lot more yaoi and bl like that now but it's hard to figure out where to start (again not trying to condemn women w kinks and whatnot just my opinion) 😅

There can be kisses for everyone (everyone who wants them). At least, that's one of my hopes, that there will be enough love in this world for everyone... IDK love and peace to everyone in this thread? :) ❤️
 
I would normally have deleted this but as it became a discussion, to have done so in silence would feel like a disservice. If it makes anyone uncomfortable though, this thread can easily be removed.

In the context of a fandom which already disproportionately favours a presumed straight male audience, together with the uphill struggle that yuri-enjoyers and LGBT+ fans have had in getting their stuff licensed in the first place historically, I think that there's a nuance to saying 'things aimed at people who aren't me are no good, everything should be for me!' which doesn't hit right even in jest. There's an additional nuance in that saying they're a waste denies that girl-girl relationships are as valid as other ones - in a vacuum that may not seem a huge problem to some, but set against centuries of patriarchal dogma to the same effect it's hard to ignore the cultural context. It may not have been the intention but it comes across that way.

Also, I would like to note that I too have felt uncomfortable at some of the 'blokey' comments on the forum of late, especially treating female-presenting bodies in a way that is definitely outright objectification rather than humour. I am more than willing to go into that further if required, and I am also willing to take it to private messages. It's fine to make lusty jokes - we all have our preferences - but please be mindful of the audience reading the post on a public forum, which is not entirely made up of people with the same lived experiences. 'I love petite women' is fine. 'Petite women are so much better than curvy women' is... unnecessarily spiteful? It's not like it's an unusual thing for people on the Internet to say; the first statement on its own would have been a stronger way to communicate the exact same intent without making other fans feel like garbage.

( @RadFemHedonist if you're looking for recommendations for happy, consensual BL stories, our very own @Sarah has published quite a few great BL reviews on the site and she is conscientious about noting whether relationship dynamics are healthy and other potential issues in her summaries - which have spoiler warnings upfront where required! I reckon the regulars in the BL thread can hook you up with some great stories too!)

R
 
Rui said:
( @RadFemHedonist if you're looking for recommendations for happy, consensual BL stories, our very own @Sarah has published quite a few great BL reviews on the site and she is conscientious about noting whether relationship dynamics are healthy and other potential issues in her summaries - which have spoiler warnings upfront where required! I reckon the regulars in the BL thread can hook you up with some great stories too!)
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Thank you, @Rui, your kind words much appreciated. 🙇‍♀️There's such a wide variety of BL stories available now and so many to recommend for their positive and optimistic portrayals of same-sex relationships. Always happy to give recommendations of titles that are just really good reads.
 
@Sarah I would like to take you up on that, but I feel like a silly if I get lots of recommendations then never check them out cuz my backlog is already so large, but if you have one or two titles you particularly recommend to those looking for a sweet, all consensual BL romance, I will make an effort to check them out, particularly if physical copies are still widely available? (sex scenes welcome but not required BTW) :)

@Rui thankyou for your as always high quality and thoughtful moderating work, I appreciated reading your comments - I don't mind lusty jokes either but I don't see the need to jump in and mention one's preferences in the manner you describe, every time a different type of body is mentioned as attractive - like, I am into a specific male body type (purely physical attraction preference, nothing against those of any other body type as people) but I wouldn't bring that up just cuz I can, in a thread about a manga or anime that feature different body types from my preference, cuz it's likely not relevant and prob gonna hurt someone's feelings (and there are manga I wanna read and anime I wanna watch that feature different body types from my preference cuz they sound rly interesting regardless) :)
 
RadFemHedonist said:
@Sarah I would like to take you up on that, but I feel like a silly if I get lots of recommendations then never check them out cuz my backlog is already so large, but if you have one or two titles you particularly recommend to those looking for a sweet, all consensual BL romance, I will make an effort to check them out, particularly if physical copies are still widely available? (sex scenes welcome but not required BTW) :)
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@RadFemHedonist : Tokyopop have really made an impact (in a good way) with their LGBT+ LoveLove imprint and I have no hesitation in recommending some of these which are all in print including: Don't Call Me Dirty by Gorou Kanbe Snow Fairy by Tomo Serizawa and Lullaby of the Dawn (first three volumes reviewed on here). Our Dining Table by Ori Mita (Seven Seas) has been adapted for TV but worth reading the original manga.

Spicier - but with well-drawn characters - Love Nest and Love Nest 2nd by Yuu Minaduki (SuBLime) Mature rated. And just for fun, Candy Color Paradox by Isaku Natsume, also SuBLime, also Mature and 6 volumes.

That's just a few suggestions from me... and I haven't even included any from Yen Press!

S
 
Rui said:
together with the uphill struggle that yuri-enjoyers and LGBT+ fans have had in getting their stuff licensed in the first place
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Reason I stopped buying Manga UK titles from 2014/15 (First MCM Birmingham year) until recently is because of their instant dismissal of LGBT titles, including shows like Wandering Son and Strawberry Panic. Along with the... choice of words they described those shows with...

Over the last few years the amount of LGBT stuff has steadily increased, Seven Seas have been doing a great job and other publishers have followed. We even have Yuri titles like Pulse that I never thought would get licensed! All I ask for more stuff from Ratana, Lily Love is a lovely series and her newer stuff I wasnt able to buy due to shipping costs

Will also check out those recommendations from @Sarah
 
Shadow Cat said:
Reason I stopped buying Manga UK titles from 2014/15 (First MCM Birmingham year) until recently is because of their instant dismissal of LGBT titles, including shows like Wandering Son and Strawberry Panic. Along with the... choice of words they described those shows with...

Over the last few years the amount of LGBT stuff has steadily increased, Seven Seas have been doing a great job and other publishers have followed. We even have Yuri titles like Pulse that I never thought would get licensed! All I ask for more stuff from Ratana, Lily Love is a lovely series and her newer stuff I wasnt able to buy due to shipping costs

Will also check out those recommendations from @Sarah
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I boycotted Manga UK for years too; partly due to their sloppy releases and partly because I didn't ever like their attitude to fans in a broader sense. In my case the original comment which annoyed me was something about how they (ignorantly) licensed something that was enormously popular with a female audience in Japan, and when they realised that it was awful because they only wanted stuff aimed at a certain demographic (paraphrased heavily but the meaning was clear). It wasn't exactly hard to stumble upon exclusionary statements from the reps as they desperately chased a certain audience and threw everyone else under a bus!

And it's an attitude that permeates many fandoms, leading to gatekeeping and treating certain genres as more valid than others. When people presume that one demographic is the default and treat everyone else like a weirdo, it creates a toxic atmosphere. Thank goodness that the industry has seen the sense in catering to people with many different interests nowadays; the lower cost of entry for digital distribution is definitely a factor but the marketplace is so full of content now that diversifying is a sensible business decision for all but the most stubborn publishers.

I've always thought that shows like Wandering Son would do very well picked up for more mainstream streaming even now; they might not pull in huge numbers but they would definitely find an audience outside of the usual fandom crowd.

R
 
Rui said:
I've always thought that shows like Wandering Son would do very well picked up for more mainstream streaming even now; they might not pull in huge numbers but they would definitely find an audience outside of the usual fandom crowd.

R
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I’m not into many of the genres discussed in this thread (my earlier drive by comment was facetious), but I love Wandering Son, a reminder that good storytelling trumps genre preferences every time! I wish it had got a Western localised release the way Aoi Hana did.
 
Rui said:
I would normally have deleted this but as it became a discussion, to have done so in silence would feel like a disservice. If it makes anyone uncomfortable though, this thread can easily be removed.

In the context of a fandom which already disproportionately favours a presumed straight male audience, together with the uphill struggle that yuri-enjoyers and LGBT+ fans have had in getting their stuff licensed in the first place historically, I think that there's a nuance to saying 'things aimed at people who aren't me are no good, everything should be for me!' which doesn't hit right even in jest. There's an additional nuance in that saying they're a waste denies that girl-girl relationships are as valid as other ones - in a vacuum that may not seem a huge problem to some, but set against centuries of patriarchal dogma to the same effect it's hard to ignore the cultural context. It may not have been the intention but it comes across that way.

Also, I would like to note that I too have felt uncomfortable at some of the 'blokey' comments on the forum of late, especially treating female-presenting bodies in a way that is definitely outright objectification rather than humour. I am more than willing to go into that further if required, and I am also willing to take it to private messages. It's fine to make lusty jokes - we all have our preferences - but please be mindful of the audience reading the post on a public forum, which is not entirely made up of people with the same lived experiences. 'I love petite women' is fine. 'Petite women are so much better than curvy women' is... unnecessarily spiteful? It's not like it's an unusual thing for people on the Internet to say; the first statement on its own would have been a stronger way to communicate the exact same intent without making other fans feel like garbage.

( @RadFemHedonist if you're looking for recommendations for happy, consensual BL stories, our very own @Sarah has published quite a few great BL reviews on the site and she is conscientious about noting whether relationship dynamics are healthy and other potential issues in her summaries - which have spoiler warnings upfront where required! I reckon the regulars in the BL thread can hook you up with some great stories too!)

R
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I'm not going to back and reread my posts but I have carefully read your post and will certainly be more aware going forward about what I write and how someone else might feel.
 
Sarah said:
@RadFemHedonist : Tokyopop have really made an impact (in a good way) with their LGBT+ LoveLove imprint and I have no hesitation in recommending some of these which are all in print including: Don't Call Me Dirty by Gorou Kanbe Snow Fairy by Tomo Serizawa and Lullaby of the Dawn (first three volumes reviewed on here). Our Dining Table by Ori Mita (Seven Seas) has been adapted for TV but worth reading the original manga.

Spicier - but with well-drawn characters - Love Nest and Love Nest 2nd by Yuu Minaduki (SuBLime) Mature rated. And just for fun, Candy Color Paradox by Isaku Natsume, also SuBLime, also Mature and 6 volumes.

That's just a few suggestions from me... and I haven't even included any from Yen Press!

S
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Just wanna let you know I copy pasted this post into the notes app on my computer to look all the titles up later, Don't Call Me Dirty looks rly interesting I'm v interested in experiences of homelessness and homelessness as a social justice issue, thankyou again for the recommendations :)
 
RadFemHedonist said:
Just wanna let you know I copy pasted this post into the notes app on my computer to look all the titles up later, Don't Call Me Dirty looks rly interesting I'm v interested in experiences of homelessness and homelessness as a social justice issue, thankyou again for the recommendations :)
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I hope you'll like that title; there's a related title by Gorou Kanbe, also published by Tokyopop, which I also really like: Don't Call Me Daddy - although it works best to read Don't Call me Daddy first. Do let me know what you think. :)
 
Sarah said:
I hope you'll like that title; there's a related title by Gorou Kanbe, also published by Tokyopop, which I also really like: Don't Call Me Daddy - although it works best to read Don't Call me Daddy first. Do let me know what you think. :)
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Ye I saw that one when I was looking up Don't Call Me Dirty and I was wondering about it :)

If and when I get around to buying and reading some of these, I will post my thoughts in the what manga are your reading thread :)
 
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RadFemHedonist said:
Ye I saw that one when I was looking up Don't Call Me Dirty and I was wondering about it :)
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Gorou Kanbe's art/character designs are not, I guess, 'beautiful' by current BL manga standards but they're very expressive and I think she deserves more attention. I was so glad that Tokyopop 'discovered' her as I think I wouldn't have found her otherwise. I hope you'll like what she does too. :) (Although no worries if it doesn't appeal - one of the great things about manga is that there's so much richness to enjoy and something for everyone!)
 
Sarah said:
Gorou Kanbe's art/character designs are not, I guess, 'beautiful' by current BL manga standards but they're very expressive and I think she deserves more attention. I was so glad that Tokyopop 'discovered' her as I think I wouldn't have found her otherwise. I hope you'll like what she does too. :) (Although no worries if it doesn't appeal - one of the great things about manga is that there's so much richness to enjoy and something for everyone!)
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I like "beautiful" but it's not a requirement for me to enjoy a work of fiction, so I'm still happy to check it out if you recommend it for it's writing and characters, though it might be a while before I get to it, but I won't wait until I've finished everything in my backlog or anything like that, given the short length :)
 
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