Protests

[Mutsumi]

Been seeing a lot of coverage of the Copenhagen thing with all those protesters trying to break in & cause havoc.

Why are they protesting though? Sure, they want to make their views known, but do they really think they can make a difference by protesting like that? Does breaking into the conference help their cause? Does fighting the police & being violent help their cause?


Is there any point in protesting?

 

[shira]

Been seeing a lot of coverage of the Copenhagen thing with all those protesters trying to break in & cause havoc.

Why are they protesting though? Sure, they want to make their views known, but do they really think they can make a difference by protesting like that? Does breaking into the conference help their cause? Does fighting the police & being violent help their cause?


Is there any point in protesting?

If the whole public is against something, it wouldn't be a democracy to do it. That's the only thing I can think of.

This Copenhagen treaty shouldn't be signed. Seriously. That's why this is happening.

Oh and if you need to know why it shouldn't be signed, this is why

 

[ayase]

Does fighting the police & being violent help their cause?

If you're so violent that you bring down the government, then yeah. Personally I think the only protests which stand a chance of changing anything are the violent ones. Yeah, go walk around with a placard, a lot of good that'll do you. If you want to change things you need to break some windows. Or some heads.

From the news coverage I've seen, the majority of these protests are happening not because people don't want the treaty, but because they don't think it goes far enough and want to force their leaders to make a deal, if necessary. People are fed up with empty promises from them which achieve nothing. There will be serious trouble if it falls apart. However, the Copenhagen police seem particularly competent. Unfortunately.

 

[shira]

Does fighting the police & being violent help their cause?

If you're so violent that you bring down the government, then yeah. Personally I think the only protests which stand a chance of changing anything are the violent ones. Yeah, go walk around with a placard, a lot of good that'll do you. If you want to change things you need to break some windows. Or some heads

An interesting idea there Ayase.

I don't want to take things off topic btw but, I wrote you a nice long reply in the Climategate thread, it'd be nice if you read it and replied if you get a chance. It's an interesting topic of religion that we're discussing.

 

[ayase]

Heh. If you think I'm being a bit hypocritical WRT some of my other views then you're probably right.

I just get so fed up with governments and leaders being such useless f*ckers who are more interested in maintaining their own power than the wellbeing of the people they govern. In most areas, we (as in you and I, I don't know about everyone else ) would probably do a better job of all running our own lives, but those with the power over the minutiae of our lives are never going to give it back without a fight.

 

[Mutsumi]

Heh. If you think I'm being a bit hypocritical WRT some of my other views then you're probably right.

I just get so fed up with governments and leaders being such useless f*ckers who are more interested in maintaining their own power than the wellbeing of the people they govern. In most areas, we (as in you and I, I don't know about everyone else ) would probably do a better job of all running our own lives, but those with the power over the minutiae of our lives are never going to give it back without a fight.

However, the people do not always know what is best for themselves, & thus must be governed appropriately. The problem arises because you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

 

[ayase]

The problem arises because you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

You mean fool.

Some issues are bigger than one person, and that is when we need government - but that's when they fail us most. They spend most of their time regulating things which should be down to individual choice, and allowing (and even promoting) things which are bad for them. I'm sure some of us can recognise in our communities people who are unemployed but happily piss away their benefit money on alcohol and gambling, to then beg other people for change when they need to do something such as eat or pay their bills. Does the government do anything to remedy this? They do bugger all. In fact, they say "Let's have some more casinos in deprived areas to transfer money from the taxpayer's pocket directly to private business!" Usually because they're mates with the people who own the casinos. Government is utterly corrupt and riddled with corporate interests. The only way I can see we would have a shot at good governance if we removed the entire structure and everyone in it.

 

[Yuvie]

I pretty much agree with ayase. Non-violent protests don't really get you anywhere. If you really wanna fight for what you believe in then a lot of the times you have to use force. Especially if you're just one of the 'small' people. That's the only way the 'ants' will be heard.

Also, minority protests aren't gonna get you anywhere, even if they turn violent. In order to make a change, you need a majority. I'm not sure if any majority in these so-called 'civilized western societies' have the guts nowadays to stand up and make a change. We rely too much on our governments and even when they do wrong, we seem to have a habit of forgiving and forgetting over time. These politicians must be laughing to themselves. They treat us like fools and we only ever have the guts to moan and groan to eachother instead of standing up for ourselves. Oh, I'm sorry, maybe I'm wrong there. Our idea of a protest is to vote for a fascist party. Yeah, what a great idea that is!!!

 

[Mutsumi]

Sometimes people protest who are just plain wrong, however. Just look at how many bloodthirsty fools turned up to protest about not being allowed to kill things for fun anymore?