Politics
- Thread starter SciFiBoy!
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CitizenGeek
Guild Member
If I was a UK citizen, I wouldn't trust the Tories in any sense at all. I know New Labour have their problems, but they are much more effective and progressive than the Tories. Socialist democratic economic principles have been more or less vindicated by this recent recession, too, so it's probably best to stick to left-wing parties to get this mess sorted and make sure it doesn't happen on this scale ever again.
Probably one of the parties who have no chance of actually winning as usual (I'll let them convince me themselves before picking which - probably Lib Dem if I ever hear anything interesting and compelling from them). Definitely not one of the two big guys though, they both have poor track records lately and their leaders have no charisma to speak of.
I assume the Tories will actually win by quite a way but there's always a chance.
R
I assume the Tories will actually win by quite a way but there's always a chance.
R
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
The Lib Dems'hardly have a charismatic leader either. I like Nick Clegg, but he's no more compelling than Cameron or Brown.
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
Tachi- said:
What's the difference?
CitizenGeek said:Tachi- said:
What's the difference?
I agree
Torries will only ever get my vote if they completely change policies and get a leader who isn't a smug s.o.b. While i know we shouldn't dwell on the past but they did muck up a fair few things just as labour have done now.In any case i'll probably vote for labour although they should really get a new guy in charge as well. Sigh rui is right though i've got the same feeling that the torries will win, just because it seems to be cool at the moment to blame labour for everything.
Tachi
Mushi-shi
Ryo Chan said:
+1
the day we let a scott take over england....was the day we mucked up.
and tbh....after the terrorist protest the other week in Luton....asains protesting against our troops coming home......i've been hearing that most white british people in luton are voting BNP in the election.
i'm voting conservative as i feel we should stop looking to help those who come into this country and claim XYZ benefits....and start helping those who actually come from england...an example is: a family from africa come to england via france...and they claim asylum.....well the world laws are that you should claim asylum in the next counrty you set foot in....their not doing that.
so they come here....claim asylum....given a house and car......now bob smith who's british born and bred.....asks the council for a house as he's so poor he can't afford one....they place him on a list....and he's forced to live on the streets till his place on the list gets to the top.....which it never will....because the imigrants get priority...so the government don't appear to be racist.
it pisses me off.....like the "send £2 a month to help little okulamwyamy from africa live for a month" no.......i'll give £2 a a month to a charity or protection organization...the one which protect children from their parents who beat them.....charity starts at home.....and i don't care if anyone thinks my views are horrible...to be honest if everyone shared my views and stopped being so scared of being politically correct, then we wouldn't be walked all over by the rest of the world.
See this is why we should adopt a policy like in a gundam show, you know like getting rid of all world borders...it would get rid of a lot of problems
Jokes aside, my family shares similar views to you but with one difference They've lived under a torrie goverment so they know what they would do to the country. I'm not saying that the torries are the devil made flesh but they will not help this country, not in the long run, they'll probably screw things up. Although i'll enjoy seeing the populatity tide turn against them, just like it turned against labour. The BNP will never get into power and with good reason, maybe it they toned themselves down a bit then maybe they would be better recieved. It would be the equilvlent of having American Nazi's taking control of america
Jokes aside, my family shares similar views to you but with one difference They've lived under a torrie goverment so they know what they would do to the country. I'm not saying that the torries are the devil made flesh but they will not help this country, not in the long run, they'll probably screw things up. Although i'll enjoy seeing the populatity tide turn against them, just like it turned against labour. The BNP will never get into power and with good reason, maybe it they toned themselves down a bit then maybe they would be better recieved. It would be the equilvlent of having American Nazi's taking control of america
urgh, i hate the tories, all this talk about "broken society" i find personally offensive, i have a single parent (my mum raised me and my sister from age 6) but i have never broken the law, but because the vast minority do, we get persecuted by the media and right wing politicians, i really, really hate that. also most of what they say is just rhetoric to get ellected, they bitch about labour alot, but the sad truth is they have little or no policy alternatives, im about 95% certain that whoever wins the next election, its bad news for this country
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
Tachi- said:
Though your views are appallingly racist and certainly politically incorrect, they are not bad because of this. They are bad because they are feuled by ignorance and supported with faulty and erroneous data and silly anecdotes.
If this is in jest, then fair enough. But I suspect it isn't and it does show the aforementioned racism.
Referring to it as a "terrorist" protest is absurd. The people protesting were largely British citizens and as such are entitled to protest whatever they like. I agree it was in poor taste, and I'm certainly no fan of Islamic extremism by any means, but you are completely misrepresenting that protest.
Again, you are totally ill-informed. What "world laws" are you talking about and could you show that exact part of them to me? The Conservative party also supports the welfare state, so you are again ill-informed if you think they'll stop granting asylum and benefits to foreigners.
You have such a stunningly superficial view of how politics works that I'm somewhat saddened you even have a vote. On what are you basing this absurd claim that "immigrants" get priority for housing in the UK?
Now this is undeniably sickeningly racist. The mocking of African names, the denigration of overseas charity ... it's abhorent. Of course, domestic charities are important, but mocking charity that goes overseas is appalling bad taste. Again, just because it's bad taste doesn't make it a bad argument. The fact that you are holding a hypocritical, illogical moral view is what makes it a bad argument. Saying that charity is only worthwhile when it helps people that share your own nationality is a moral paradox.
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
BlackWolf said:
As extreme an analogy that may seem, it is categorically true.
Tachi
Mushi-shi
CG.....i've read what you've wrote and i'm not racist. i'm just sick and tired of things going on in this country....im not picking a fight....but i work in the NHS where i see countless people ripping off the system. and yes they do place immigrants higher than those who are british born....watch tonight with trevor mcdonald sometime...
also although conservatives might not show my full view...they have more things i agree with...than disagree.
as for the scottish joke. yes it was meant in jest. as i'd be a hypocrite for actually meaning that as i have scottish friends.
im saddend by the comment that the protest wasn't terrorist.....just because it wasn't a bomb doesn't clear them from the fact that they where unfairly voicing their opinion...it wasn't the time nor place for such a display...the protesters are so small minded it's almost comical.....those soldiers they're wishing where dead are following orders.....and if war ever hits england again....them same soldiers will be here to protect them.....and they only show themselves to be ungrateful bastards.
im not phased in the slightest about the charity comments. i believe we should look after the UK before helping others. and as for mocking their names....i took the first name off my database at work. please don't think this is a fuel for an argument....as politics is constant arguments....and i grow tired of them.
also although conservatives might not show my full view...they have more things i agree with...than disagree.
as for the scottish joke. yes it was meant in jest. as i'd be a hypocrite for actually meaning that as i have scottish friends.
im saddend by the comment that the protest wasn't terrorist.....just because it wasn't a bomb doesn't clear them from the fact that they where unfairly voicing their opinion...it wasn't the time nor place for such a display...the protesters are so small minded it's almost comical.....those soldiers they're wishing where dead are following orders.....and if war ever hits england again....them same soldiers will be here to protect them.....and they only show themselves to be ungrateful bastards.
im not phased in the slightest about the charity comments. i believe we should look after the UK before helping others. and as for mocking their names....i took the first name off my database at work. please don't think this is a fuel for an argument....as politics is constant arguments....and i grow tired of them.
ayase
State Alchemist
After previously voting Lib Dem consistantly, I will be voting Labour. I can't stand the thought that, after years of having a far right social conservative puppet in the White House, just as Barack Obama and Gordon Brown (two men who share a very similar ideology) have a chance to move the world towards shared goals, David Cameron will be elected here in the UK. The guy is just a populist with no vision or plan. Whatever the public wants to hear, he will say it in order to get into power. And sadly it looks like it's going to work.
To be fair though, Tony Blair did almost exactly the same thing. That's something for Cameron fans to think about. I don't have a lot of faith in democracy, but right now Labour are the best of a bad bunch (and Gordon Brown certainly the best to steer the economy towards recovery) and I'd sooner see them in power than the Tories.
One thing seems certain whoever's in power though, your personal freedoms will continue to diminish. As a libertarian I don't feel represented by any of the major parties, who all seem to have become authoratarian recently. Even the Lib Dems want to set a minimum price for alcohol now, us proles seemingly aren't capable of making our own decisions. :roll:
To be fair though, Tony Blair did almost exactly the same thing. That's something for Cameron fans to think about. I don't have a lot of faith in democracy, but right now Labour are the best of a bad bunch (and Gordon Brown certainly the best to steer the economy towards recovery) and I'd sooner see them in power than the Tories.
One thing seems certain whoever's in power though, your personal freedoms will continue to diminish. As a libertarian I don't feel represented by any of the major parties, who all seem to have become authoratarian recently. Even the Lib Dems want to set a minimum price for alcohol now, us proles seemingly aren't capable of making our own decisions. :roll:
Ryo Chan said:
If this were to be introduced (again) then the citizens of the United Kingdom will have no say, and will be forced to abide by Her Majesty's laws as opposed to the actual citizens themselves, from each constituency, creating "Bills" to give to the government as ideas for new laws that they think should be introduced..a power the Monarchy has not beared in years. Even when they did, they were only always killed and betrayed by their fellow people anyway.
I think that the nations' people having more control is a great idea as the people that are actually living in society get a chance to make a change for the better. Having the monarchy in charge, instead of simply having to automatically approve these laws, has a less-pleasing satsifaction to the people in society too. If we look in history books we can clearly notice this. Thus, granting the people to request what they would deem reasonable laws is good, otherwise the nation would only have to do what the Queen (or King) states.
Although I do somewhat agree with you based on that as just having one person managing the country their own way is a lot easier than having some idiot MP having powers over a nation.
Sorry for writing so much. I do government policies in college and just had to recently type a very long assignment based on it.
Politics..i dunno, they never used to appeal to me but i'm somewhat interested now on how they deal with things. I personally don't think any of the parties should be in power at present, none of them are going to bring in something that will get us out of this major predicament we're in at present, and each leader seems either too smug, don't think things through, or are repeating the same things over and over again. Gordon Brown for all his faults is at least holding on, i'll give him that, however i think he could do a better job. Also, yes i'll no doubt get told otherwise here, but i think if we where to change leaders here to anyone else who leads the other parties(Cameron, for example) then i can see things getting worse.
Just curious, but when was the last time our governments actually did something that turned out good for us in the last year? Because from what i can tell at present, the british government has had its gold reserves sold, had to cut the interest rates down to 0.5%, put more troops in afganistan, had Gordon Brown have a slip of the tongue with "we've saved the world"(Ok not a problem, but still hilarious) and i could go on. Nothing seems to be working out for the better with us at present when it comes to decisions made for us, and it could easily get worse.
Up here in scotland i don't see it being much better, SNP aren't exactly Miracle workers either, and i do see Mr Salmond being a bit of a fool on occasion too. I do at least agree with the plan to raise the minimum price for alchohol(and i expect a lot of people would complain about that) but asides from that, they've not done that much in terms of helping us either.
@Tachi-: If you did mean that scottish joke, i'd probably have a good go at ya ;p Sure Brown ain't all that clever, but its still would be directed at scots ;p Mind you in all respects, we've been doing the same to you lot for years, so it would normally be expected.
Just curious, but when was the last time our governments actually did something that turned out good for us in the last year? Because from what i can tell at present, the british government has had its gold reserves sold, had to cut the interest rates down to 0.5%, put more troops in afganistan, had Gordon Brown have a slip of the tongue with "we've saved the world"(Ok not a problem, but still hilarious) and i could go on. Nothing seems to be working out for the better with us at present when it comes to decisions made for us, and it could easily get worse.
Up here in scotland i don't see it being much better, SNP aren't exactly Miracle workers either, and i do see Mr Salmond being a bit of a fool on occasion too. I do at least agree with the plan to raise the minimum price for alchohol(and i expect a lot of people would complain about that) but asides from that, they've not done that much in terms of helping us either.
@Tachi-: If you did mean that scottish joke, i'd probably have a good go at ya ;p Sure Brown ain't all that clever, but its still would be directed at scots ;p Mind you in all respects, we've been doing the same to you lot for years, so it would normally be expected.
ayase
State Alchemist
WRT the alcohol pricing point - my concern is that there is a big difference between the government encouraging people to do what's in their best interests (I'm all for "we'll help you quit smoking" campaigns) and a law forcing them to do it (public smoking ban).
When government starts controlling people's personal choices, it's a slippery slope. Public alcohol ban? Security cameras on every corner to watch us in case we break any laws? Wait... that one's already happened. Er... better take it to the next level then - Security cameras in our homes? Home smoking ban? Home alcohol ban?
I dislike nationalism in any form - British, Scottish, it's all small minded and backwards to me. We should be tearing down barriers and borders not putting new ones up. It's sad that Britain and Ireland are the only EU countries not in the Schengen Area. It's also annoying as our customs "officers" are some of the most up themselves, pompous wankers I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with - Another barrier to freedom.
Not integrating ourselves into Europe (no matter how ridicoulous some of their legislation over there may be) is a big mistake, especially from the POV of anyone concerned over asylum seekers (not that I am, particularly). If we had Europe wide law on the issue Britian would get far less people trying to claim asylum here over other European nations (which does happen) as wherever they went the law would be the same.
When government starts controlling people's personal choices, it's a slippery slope. Public alcohol ban? Security cameras on every corner to watch us in case we break any laws? Wait... that one's already happened. Er... better take it to the next level then - Security cameras in our homes? Home smoking ban? Home alcohol ban?
I dislike nationalism in any form - British, Scottish, it's all small minded and backwards to me. We should be tearing down barriers and borders not putting new ones up. It's sad that Britain and Ireland are the only EU countries not in the Schengen Area. It's also annoying as our customs "officers" are some of the most up themselves, pompous wankers I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with - Another barrier to freedom.
Not integrating ourselves into Europe (no matter how ridicoulous some of their legislation over there may be) is a big mistake, especially from the POV of anyone concerned over asylum seekers (not that I am, particularly). If we had Europe wide law on the issue Britian would get far less people trying to claim asylum here over other European nations (which does happen) as wherever they went the law would be the same.
Hmm looked dodgy for a while but no major flame war yet. I'm glad.
I don't 100% agree with some of what you've said but this part was right on.
The BNP etc and their policies simply repulse me. Anything which divides our fellow humans up into "them" and "us" to control people is just all kinds of icky. If it came to it I'd vote for almost any other party just to prevent a group like that taking power.
I quite liked the last LibDem guy - unfortunately. I agree that the current one doesn't particularly thrill me but he still beats out Gordon Brown (who seems nice enough but genuinely has no charisma whatsoever) and David Cameron (who somehow always looks shifty and disconnected from modern realities). We could really use someone with presence leading our country though, such a shame.
I didn't rate him much at first but Obama has a lot of charisma; he gets people interested. Why is it so hard to find someone like that over here?
R
ayase said:
I don't 100% agree with some of what you've said but this part was right on.
The BNP etc and their policies simply repulse me. Anything which divides our fellow humans up into "them" and "us" to control people is just all kinds of icky. If it came to it I'd vote for almost any other party just to prevent a group like that taking power.
CitizenGeek said:
I quite liked the last LibDem guy - unfortunately. I agree that the current one doesn't particularly thrill me but he still beats out Gordon Brown (who seems nice enough but genuinely has no charisma whatsoever) and David Cameron (who somehow always looks shifty and disconnected from modern realities). We could really use someone with presence leading our country though, such a shame.
I didn't rate him much at first but Obama has a lot of charisma; he gets people interested. Why is it so hard to find someone like that over here?
R