LOST

Fringe is always a weird juggling act between procedural and serialized, I'm off the opinion that it would probably be a better show if it went fully serialized with the occasional freak-of-the-weeks popping up whenever they need some filler. It bogs down some of the better character stuff. V apparently rushes itself for the first four episodes, so when it returns to the states, I'll be eager to see what both the ratings and the reviews are like. It's had time to take everything into account and hopefully it will make a good show. There can only be one, though - the chances of both V and FlashForward surviving on ABC are very slim, imo.

I think your being harsh to the current season, basically because you haven't seen it all yet, Desmond's episode has yet to even appear and I'm more than sure the flash-sideways (it isn't an alternate reality, because that suggests only one is real) are going to... stop or not being focused as much around half way through the season. The MIB/Jacob stuff will come to light once this real estate **** gets out of the way, I think. I've prepared myself for a controversial ending, though - if Darlton are running out of the country for a while, and keep talking about The Sopranos and Battlestar Galactica's ending in interviews, I think that gives a good idea of where they are heading with it.

I don't think a constant timeskip or moving the island is necessary for the show to be sci-fi, though, but whatever. I think a mystical island and with smoke monster is still more than most shows have.

I'm still mourning Faradays death, btw. He outshined everyone from the word go - "Rescuing you and your people... I can't really say is our primary objective."
 
I reply after Lost airs in the UK in about 21 hours time, in case I might spoil the episode for others.
 
I'm curious on what your going to say now, I've watched the episode and if we're still talking about the flash-sideways, I can see how it got shoved to the side, but I think it still added emotional resonance that wouldn't otherwise been there for what happened later in the episode. I finished watching it about five minutes ago and I thought it was one of the strongest so far (probably the strongest. I think the season - on island - has officially started. It probably should have been quicker, slightly, but whatever. It's here now. And I'm hyped.
 
The ep was good, I liked how the factions are forming, the Jacob faction even though he's no loner amongst the living and the Smokey faction. I didn't want Sayeed to go evil, but what he done after going evil and the look in his eyes was wicked (wicked good).

What I hate is when they need to go somewhere on lost, and doing it will progress the story further, but they spend all episode getting to that place, they could just skip most of it out and get there and tell us what they were going to, but no. Like with the Light house, it took ages getting there, and sure it was a little fun along the way with the Hurley/Jack dialogue, but I just felt they stretched the journey out way too much. Other series, Anime and live action also do this, sometimes too often, Naruto being a good example (episodes of Naruto chasing someone through a forest).

The alternate reality, I'm not sure if that the explosion at the end of S5 really done anything to alter the timeline. I mean, the flash-asides could be what happens as a result of the end game between Jocob and Smokey, or it could be in regards to what the dead Juliet said to Miles (it worked or something, as in they altered there future).

By alternate reality, I mean in the sense of there being infinite realities (all of them are real, but your currently reading this in one of them), in which you made different choices throughout, and lived different lives as a result. If you've watched Noien (an amazing anime), you'll understand what I mean. I somewhat believe that and yet somewhat don't, and it comes down to the choices you make and those you don't (as you never had to).

This alternate reality being another reality (one on which the Island never existed because it was destroyed in another timeline), and the one that the characters from Island 'arrive' to through some event or incident which has yet to happen (could be something put in motion by the blast at the end of S5, but not yet completed). I think the realities are linked, but two different ones at the same time, I mean Jack has a Kid in this reality and Locke is still with his Girlfriend.

I think Jacob influenced many things, and the lives of these characters was one of them. Only some of the times they were influenced by Jacob were shown in the Flashbacks, but I think he has been instrumental throughout their lives in order to bring about their meeting on the Island. They did show him influencing sawyer when he was a child (and Jacob may well have similarly done so to the other characters). In this alternate reality, Jacob not existing or being the same person he was in Island reality, may be why he never influenced the characters, hence why there are difference in this alternate world. Some differences pre-date the Island crash that began Lost. Jack's son is about 14, he never had a son in the island timeline, and so 14 years ago in that world, he never had a child. That's some influence. Similar for Locke, his girlfriend left him as he was obsessed with his dad, but he is still with her in alternate world, so something different must have happened here.
 
I think Lost is very focused on Destiny, or it has been for the past two seasons and now with the LA-verse, its showing that their destiny has changed or can be changed (or something). I'm more than sure they are interlocked and they will probably go into more depth with that later - Desmond's disappearing act and Jack thinking he knew him being the prominent things that make me think this (speaking of Jack, I'm curious as to who his ex-wife is now. I'm doubtful its the Modern Family chick anymore). I've seen a bit of Noein but I still know what your talking about. I don't think the H-Bomb changed the timeline so much as split the timelines in two (that is, assuming the bomb done anything at all -- It didn't even kill Juliet for some reason). I think its pretty much, as you sort of said; a 'Verse Without Jacob and a 'Verse With Jacob. His influence was either there at the beginning of time or it wasn't, I don't think there was a specific date that made everything change (although he brought Locke back to life... but Locke was different before that) unless his interactions with the central characters also changed the lives of the Others like Ethan. The Island being underwater is a question that I'd like an answer to, but I'm thinking that won't be explained till a heavy mythic sideways episode, which would be either Desmond's or when the timeline's join. Assuming they are even timelines, it could just be The Island itself manipulating the time. The characters could be in '07 on the island, but if they leave, they could meet their '04 selves, which is I think what will happen. Right... now I'm typing it, I dunno.

Ahhh!

I don't think that makes that much sense, but anyway, the episode itself was great. There's been a discussion of the war coming, the storm or whatever and I can see it now. Naveen Andrews gave one of his strongest performances, imo. It's tempting to quote all the foreshadowing now, there's two sides, light and dark, and its an never-ending battle, or something, right? Well, hopefully we get an ending to that "battle". Sun and Jin need to hurry up and get reunited though. That's already way to tedious. It's likely that Sun or something will die, I think. It's a very Darlton thing to do: Keep 'em separated and once reunited, destroy the happiness.

Er... yeah. You mentioned how you hate it when they go on a Journey, but I thought it was pretty necessary in that episode. It's a very Season 1 thing to do, and even Hurley mentioned it himself. Wandering around not knowing what will happen. I loved that interaction and you could consider it filler, I suppose, but then a lot of the fun of the show is gone. Season 1 was all about exploring the unknown and there's a certain nostalgia and epic-ness attached to that ("to boldly go where no man has gone before..") The slightly bigger problem I had with that is that there literally was a random lighthouse, only slightly though. I get the Naruto comparison, but I think that's because motion can be played out much faster in manga. There's a tennis match in Death Note, and in the manga it's filled with dialogue, yes, but the match itself seems lightning fast but when that's translated to screen, the amount of dialogue becomes noticeable and it slows down the match because of it. That's what happens there, most of the time I feel anyway. I get the comparison, but I don't think its the same thing.
 
I don't totally hate the journeys, we've had some amazing dialogue during some of them, like the Superman/Flash one some time earlier. What I hate is when they stretch it out way too much, sometimes over more than a single episode. It also seems, that they are almost always walking around and wondering throughout the jungle. If its not one thing, it'll be something else for which they go out into to the known, but I guess every series needs its fall back that's overused, like Naruto has the running through forests from tree to tree, Fringe has the Monster of the week, Lost has this thing with journeys.

I'm liking the chess like way Lost plays out (not that I play chess). In series 4 we knew about the Oceanic 6 early in the season, but over the course of the season, the 6 were introduced. Even after that, the series steadily began moving the characters around in factions. By this time we knew who would be 'rescued', but not all of these were together in the same factions, and as the last few episodes approached these characters came together (and sometimes grew apart), but as the last episode approached we began to get an idea of how it might play out, until it did. I'm not quite sure if anyone will understand what I mean, lol.
 
I think I understand, you watching the beginning, and you know parts of the end and you try to create the narrative of how they get from A to B in your head. The head-spinning of that is very much gone with the flash-sideways and I suppose that's pretty sad actually. There's that immense scene not long before Claire goes missing where the Losties choose who to follow, Jack or Locke, to the freighter or back to DHARMAville. IIRC, you know who the O6 are but it doesn't make it any less dramatic to see how it all plays out and what happens to the non-O6'ers.
 
So... Mr. Noodles, if you are still around - thoughts on "Dr. Linus"? I rather enjoyed it, it wasn't as 'epic' as "Sundown" but it gave some pretty great revelations about The Island in the sideways world and was perhaps a better overall episode. It gave some answers, I'm not particularly pining for them but they are always nice to have. I loved how allegorical (can something be allegory to fictitious things? No idea, but you get what I'm trying to say) Ben's High School is in contrast to The Island. I can't remember the exact line but my jaw-dropped when it got said - just before the LOST trombone. I also loved how Locke empowered Ben, he gave him the strength to do something he's been on-edge about for a while. Alex being involved in his life is pretty interesting while not entirely surprising and I won't be surprised if we see Rousseau again because of it. Artz was pretty great - don't get me wrong, I love that he exploded to itty bitty pieces but it was nice to see him back for a bit of sideways action. I can imagine his life being very similar with or without Ben Linus, but that's the boring stuff anyway.

The Richard Alpert stuff was fantastic. All these intriguing answers were being given in such a off-the-cuff manner I adored it. The big questions are sometimes better if they are played in a lesser manner otherwise a build-up is something too much. Jack's dynamite scene (both literal and figurative) was 'da bomb (no pun intended). It gave some importance to The Lighthouse which I was worried they wouldn't really focus on again. So... that's terrific. Ben's Island-verse stuff was okay; good emotional scene with Illana and that should change that dynamic in some way. Miles mentioned Nikki and Paolo (and was looking at their crystals later on) and that made me happy. Obviously I hate the characters but I like when they sometimes get mentioned - it makes the episode less filler.

Another Season 1 thing turned up as well. A couple of weeks ago we got the long walks into the unknown with some witty banter and this week we got the triumphant return of The Beach with added extra-dramatic returns of Hurley and Jack. The cliffhanger itself proves to be very interesting... if they focus on it next week... which I doubt because its been what? 4 weeks since we last saw Sawyer? I don't miss him at all but I suppose we need to catch up with him at some point. Probably been poisoned or something stupid.

Ho-hum.. double post. I could really do keeping my chatter to a minimum when discussing Lost.
 
I liked the episode, its looking alot less filler. Any new series or even season of a series can have a few standalone eps after the first couple that (r)establish the 'world', that was what Lost was doing, but I didn't like it, as I thought there are limited eps left (17 for this season i think) and they're wasting them on these silly trekking through the jungle moments. I wanted them to rather spend all remaining eps focusing on the many remaining unanswered questions. The series is now moving forward, and I hope it gathers pace as the finale nears.

I was missing the old Ben, though I hated him then, though it was more of a, loved to hate him kind of hate. The current Ben was annoying, and I never really liked Locke, especially after he 'murdered' Boone, so seeing Locke have the upper hand against Ben wasn't something I enjoyed, though that Locke turned out to be fake. Anyway seeing Ben getting somewhat past his confidence crisis was good. The alternate world Ben was interesting, especially the help Alex or not bit. The mention of Dharma from Bens dad wasn't what I was expecting. Alex showing up raises question about who her biological father is, I had always thought it was Ben. I guess it wasn't.
 
Early in season 5 (or perhaps even before that) I thought it was established that Danielle killed the father when she got crazy (also murdering the other three or four people she arrived onto the island with). She was heavily pregnant at the time she arrived at the island and Ben being Ben stole the child away from Danielle at a young age and raised her himself. Of course we know she didn't know her mother till Kate reunited them.

I'm find this New Island Ben very appealing, not so much because Emerson is doing fantastic work or is getting great lines as he used to all the time (though he is doing/getting both, its not as focused upon) but because of how I think this is the position Ben should be in. He's been torn down so many times, brought up to be something special, only to find he's not. This is a ruined man and he's now starting to looking for faith elsewhere -- in humanity maybe? He's lost faith in The Island quite a bit but still more than anything he is pining to become something special. It does make me curious as to why Ben isn't a candidate though. We're not exactly "in the know" for what that role might pertain but I can see Ben killing for it. ;p
 
I assumed the Danielle going crazy bit was a lie made up by the others, until they showed her story in the time jumps. I guess I forgot about that her killing her child's father, Danielle was never a very interesting character too me, maybe that's why.

I like mind games, hence why I love Death Note. That's the part of Ben I liked, though I didn't like how far he would go to reach his goals. At least they seem to be back in making him somewhat an interesting character on the island (loved the off the island parts).
 
Okay, its been three episodes since the last discussion, and in that time we've had one incredible episode and two okay ones. The current Widmore storyline that was focused upon in both "The Package" and "Recon" is much more boring than it should be. Anyway, that's island stuff, in sideways land we got:

A mostly dull Sawyer episode. Sawyer and Miles together, policing the town, should have been pretty fun and it never even intended to be apart of the bigger mythos but I still found it mostly lame. I didn't mind him meeting up with Charlotte though, but again, a mostly boring episode, especially in the sideways land. The island stuff was better, he met up with Liz Lemo-- Oh, my bad, I meant Zoe. Had a nice little discussion with Widmore, although it was nothing special; I wasn't shocked, provoked or felt really anything during the entire episode. It's Sawyer, I love Sawyer and he seemed to be setting himself a certain position, but I didn't get a feeling of grandeur that the following week offered with "Ab Aeterno" - which was magnificent. Richard was as most people predicted, a slave, he got a Tragic Lost Romance™ and all that, but the lengthy conversations with both The MIB and Jacob were what carried the episode. I love that Lost is offering these explanations in huge bundles with certain mythos episodes and some episodes lacking almost all mythos. It's what Lost has always tried to do; cater to the character fans and catering to the plot fans, and for the most part, the more character-based stuff has somewhat moved the Islandverse stuff along. The half empty wine bottle metaphor was inspired.

I mentioned earlier about how I'm not really feeling this Widmore stuff. I used to find him a really compelling antagonist, but now I find him a bit tried and tired. Okay, he's at The Island and he's got some secrets (and we all know how Fake Locke hates secrets) but they aren't doing anything with it. All of this stuff is so blah to me, especially considering how this episode ended and how that is going to continue to next week. The blah seems to be disappearing for next week and I'm prepared to be amazed, in probably what's going to be one of the best episodes of the season. I've been waiting for him to turn up for so damn long, and he arrived in a intriguing manner, reminded me of Faraday's reappearance in S5. Excited.

As for the Sun/Jin sideway stuff, it was again, all a bit blah, even the stuff with Keamy and Mikhail. It was nice seeing the sideways lands join together and we now know why Jin was there. Obviously, that was one of the biggest mysteries.
 
Ok, "Happily Ever After" is officially one of my top five episodes of Lost ever, up there with such greats as "The Shape of Things to come" (url wont link properly) "The Constant" "The Man Behind the Curtain" and "Ab Aeterno".

Ab aeterno may well be the best 45 minutes of storytelling in the Lost series, but this, how can I put it, something about it just elevated it beyond everything that has come before. Maybe it was the way everything has just started to make sense?

I was starting to lose faith with Cuse and Lindeloff, but this episode has shown me how wrong I was to ever doubt them.
 
I quite liked Ab Aeterno" as well, was good to see Richards past.

My favourite episode of Lost has to the The Constant (and I'm sure a lot of other people would agree), the only ep I've seen twice, so far. This weeks ep, Happily Ever After (an ep I might watch again), was definitely the best ep of the season so far, and possibly one of the best Lost eps so far (not the Best though). Not going to say too much about it yet, but it has also restored my faith in Lost. Lost might actually have an ending I find acceptable, something I was beginning to doubt over the last several eps.
 
noodles said:
Lost might actually have an ending I find acceptable, something I was beginning to doubt over the last several eps..
Click to expand...
As you have probably figured, I wait till it airs over here, but I went into the series truly believing with all my heart that I would be let down by the ending, but I'm slowly coming around on that idea in that is will be genuinely good. I definitely think Darlton have downplayed expectations on purpose.

Very excited for this weeks ep!
 
I sit alone, in the dark, with a glaring TV when I watch LOST and for that reason, shouting "Holyshit" numerous times whilst pulling out your hair and wriggling around isn't probably the most normal reaction to an episode of television, but Lord, that was some epic **** right there. Technically, I'm not sure if its The Best Episode Ever either, but it done so much. Not least of which was having the greatest characters of the show in one episode (Elouise, Daniel, Charlie etc). I picked up on where the story was leading a couple of times a bit before it went there, but that thankfully didn't affect my enjoyment of the episode. Throughout the other thought that kept coming up is that "I can't wait to own all of this on Blu-ray. I can't wait".

I'm still out of breath typing this up and I can't even make heads or tails of my thoughts. So much happened, so many important things, such a feeling of what's to come and I think that the bar set for this season by this episode is probably going to get dropped a bit for next weeks (Hugo).

I imagine its the same for you, but one of the images I'll have in my head all night will be definitely of Desmond seeing Charlie's high contrast hand saying "NOT PENNY'S BOAT!" once again. Damn, I've seen that season 3 finale a few times now (definitely a contender for Best Episode) and I still watch it hoping for a different outcome. It's so rough. In a way, I got that outcome. Charlie survived, Drive Shaft is becoming big but I don't give flying **** really what happens to that Charlie. At this stage, he's not MY Charlie -- I expect that to change though. Or something similar. The consciousness joining together in both worlds, one world dying, minds being transferred over - something silly (and yet brilliant) will happen in the finale.

(Sorry for this weird post. My mind is all over the place after that episode, maybe next week or whenever its discussed again I can add something more substantial to the discussion.)
 
I'm beginning to think one of the worlds, might not actually be real, probably the Island World, and might be something imagined within the mind of Desmond. That wouldn't be a very good ending, unless they mixed that up with some other interesting bits and bobs. That said, this ep definitely has me thinking that Desmond will be very central to the ending, and the rest of the story. Perhaps, the Oceanic 815 crashed on the Island because Desmond being on the Island at that pointed willed them their, which case he'd already have some sort of 'Powers'.
 
I didn't like that many characters being killed that quickly, and that suddenly. It felt anti-climactic, but I was saddened by their loss none the less.
 
I was surprised that there was a final act afterwards, and I also thought it was also a bit abrupt jumping between the deaths and the Fake Locke business - it didn't initially give a chance to mourn, but I thank Hurley and Kate for being there at the end.

There's still the sideways land as of right now anyway, which kind of puts a weird blanket over the deaths. Our characters are dead, but some other ones are still alive. Hmm..
 
Back
Top