Ledford blames fansubs for closing down ADV UK's operations

[chaos]

Truth is, we are consumers, we want fast, cheap, packed with eps and extras, and it's the companies job to find ways to maximize their investments. If RRP were a bit lower, wouldn't it sell better from the start?

Most fans in this forum seems to simply ignore the dubs. Why keep dubbing them? I would dub Naruto, Pokemon and such series, but I don't see the point of dubbing Blood or ROD for instance.

If the rating guys charge so much, why have them rated in UK? Portugal and Spain are still Europe, region 2, can't they be rate there and be sold in the UK?

if you are the distributor, are you legally / contract binded so you have to release your dvds in region 2? if you're not, why not release the dvd's region free and maybe import to other locations... If you add portuguese, spanish subtitles you could sell your dvds in all of latin america...

For all I know, I'll keep buying cheap stuff. I do have a tendency to buy more stuff than I have the tendency to watch, so I don't feel the need to be always up to date.

 

[Time and Space]

.
If the rating guys charge so much, why have them rated in UK? Portugal and Spain are still Europe, region 2, can't they be rate there and be sold in the UK?

Certification is a national process and has nothing to do with the Regions of DVDs. If you want to sell a DVD, or more precisely, show a moving picture in Brtitain, it has to go through a government sanctioned 'board of classification'. If this wasn't so, ADV would just use the American equivalent, and we would have PG-13s etc.

Though I do agree that ADV are themselves to blame. Other distributors have been able to survive in Britain, regardless of whether subs are damaging them. ADV should have been more shrewd in their business ventures if they really were determined to maintain their overseas branch here in Britain. It is essentially the fault of ADV that consumers have not bought as many DVDs as they seem to demand we should have. When will Anime distributors learn that anime fans simply don't have the funds to buy the copious amounts DVDs they expect us to buy? Sometimes I think they expect all anime fans will buy every DVD of every series licensed, and if we don't, then it is concluded that the reason is because of illegal fansubs.
Yes, I watch fansubs, but if fansubs didn't exist, I still wouldn't buy the official releases of those fansubs that I didn't like. Infact, I'd buy less anime without the existence of fansubs, because I wouldn't have had the opportunity to sample such a wide range of anime worth paying for.
In my case then, fansubs have actually and literally enriched ADV with my custom, so there.

 

[Tin Man]

I had never heard of Gurren Lagann until this article.

Guess what I'm doing right now. Gankutsuou aswell right after reading Aion's thread begging the industry to release it.

As a big fan of the Macross franchise I can say with my hand on my heart, its a complex issue.

 

[ConanThe3rd]

Let's see, here, there's an Onomatopoeia for what Mr. Ledford, and what I spsspect the entirety of EX ADV UK are doing.
That word is "BAWWWWWWWW!"

Instead of figguring out, "Oh, people don't want to pay £20 for a dvd they can get for at least half that price at least 6+ months before it gets an offical release here that is that price because of an arcadic rating system." they do the same damn thing they always done, complain to the very fanbase that they want to get and thus only cause more of an issue.

Being frank, given that I'm more or less sure that Keroro Gunsou and Lagann are going to stuck in Limbo for a long time if not forever with ADV, I have to honestly say that I'm sick of this nonsence and that I'm Done with ADV. They should become another Geneon and leave us in peace with companies that have a damn clue like Funimation in regards to what the hell they are doing.

 

[Dan]

Most fans in this forum seems to simply ignore the dubs. Why keep dubbing them? I would dub Naruto, Pokemon and such series, but I don't see the point of dubbing Blood or ROD for instance.

Not only the people in these forums buy anime in the UK, I'm sure there are people who don't even go to anime sites or forums who buy it and I certainly wouldn't watch it if it was't dubbed.

I personally think sales would drop and how do you intend to pull in a bigger audience if you only stick to the original language, when there are people out there who just re-fuse to watch stuff if its not in English.

 

[rick]

The crux of the issue is that not enough people appear to be buying ADV's anime DVDs in the UK.

Although they probably are partly to blame, fansubs aren't the only reasons for the demise of ADV UK. Even the people who detest fansubs with a deep passion could be partly to blame merely due to their cheap importation of R1s. Unless theres a specific reason why you can't/ don't use R1s (e.g. your DVD player isn't multi-regional), then I imagine most anime fans who actually bother to buy the DVDs and support the industries have a bunch of R1s in their possession. I can whole heartedly admit that about a third to a half of my anime DVD collection is made up of R1s.

People buy R1s because they're cheap and get released quicker. To only blame fansubbers isn't right.

ADV released too much crap and are blaming others for their own idiocy. Instead of limiting their releases to HQ series, they instead seemed to simply license everything they could. They only have themselves to blame for not being picky with what they released in a country with few anime fans.

ADV claim they have the largest catalogue of anime outside of Japan, but to what end? What's the point in having the largest catalogue when a good deal of it is probably crap? They waste money picking up the shttier series only to release it in the UK for it to do even worse. No doubt, though, there are some people who would buy some of the tosh ADV license.

Outside of the pricing, the main issue anime has is the lack of extras. People want to hear the directors thoughts, the thoughts of the voice actors...

I honestly don't mind that certain titles have few to no extras. What annoys me is certain titles only have about two trailers for other anime. I think all anime discs should have at least 3 trailers for other shows, and all different as each volume comes out. Which brings me to my next point; it really pisses me off to see the same trailer on, say, vol.1 of an anime to then see it again on vol.3 or whatever (FMA is the worst offender, I see that bloody trailer on everything).

 

[Sy]

Just to tackle the email from the now out of work staff directly.

I do hope that the rest of your order finds its way to you, but since you paid less per disc than it cost to make them, even if you don't get the rest of the order, you still got the first half of your order for bargain prices. You were one of hundreds of fans who showed up to buy from us only when it was too late to save the company. If everyone had bought these discs at retail prices, we would still be open and have jobs.

Again I understand that they are frustrated and annoyed that they have lost their jobs but you would still expect them to act with some level of professionalism and not simply expect people to forget about items they paid for and havent recieved. If you sell items for rock bottom prices that are usually considered overpriced then expect them to sell well. No matter how much the customer paid for them they will still expect to get their orders. I doubt that them telling the customer that they still got it for 'bargain prices' will wash over too well in most cases.

 

[Ark]

The problem is that they release so many mediocre anime series that people might watch on fansub but aren't willing to spend £100 on. This in turn isn't really their fault but rather the fault of the Japanese anime industry themselves. I mean what percentage of anime released post-2000 is Moe/Pedo rubbish compared with the 90s? When I look at the fansubs being made it looks to me like almost half. That stuff might have a huge tv audience in Japan but I don't think even the people in the west who might like it are going to pay money for it.

As far as understand it Lain was a very popular fansub when it first came out. I doubt very much though that this has affected its dvd sales since then, because it's a decent show. That's the real issue

 

[harkins]

It’s an emotional time when you lose your job and you will seek to lay blame somewhere; it’s only natural. A lot of users on here probably haven’t had a job yet and thus cannot empathise with these guys.

But the situation that has occurred at ADV UK certainly is a complicated one when looked at rationally. So many contributory factors such as;

Price per volume

This is one factor that is starting to improve at last but until the next issue on my list is addressed it’s not going to make a significant impact.

High number of volumes per title

This is a major pain in the arse for several reasons; the sum cost of a series, the incredible release time they’re spread over and the enormous amount of storage space needed.

Customers limited finances (ie. school/college kids)

Let’s face it. Anime isn’t just for kids but I’m pretty sure that the majority of anime fans are below the age of 21. So with the income from paper rounds, holiday jobs and student loans it’s easy to see why stealing anime is so attractive (oh, that’s my next point)

Fan subbing

I’m largely against this, regardless of the excuses but I admit that even this is a complicated issue in itself. As we don’t get legal access to see shows at the cheap price that a TV license offers I can see the argument that it helps people discover good shows that they latter buy. But I’m pretty convinced that the vast majority buy next to nothing in the end.

And comments like this are ridiculous “Agreed because what I hate more in the anime industry is whiners from company on "FANSUBZ IZ KILLIN OUR COMPANY D=" Just like fansubbers are always whining about costs, release times etc.

Importing

Importing is a weird one. On the one hand it is legal and does support the western industry – ensuring that dub and sub versions are available but it is definitely another factor in the UK markets weak sales.

Time delay from Japanese to US to UK release

Well as long as the internet is around we will know about good new series (and bad ones) long before a DVD is released over here. And unless they find a way of releasing episodes for 10p the morning after a Japanese TV broadcast I think that this is a situation that cannot be improved enough to prevent people from finding other cheaper and quicker methods of watching anime.

Titles that are of below average quality

Of course this is somewhat subjective but in ADV’s case some series seemed obvious failures. I’ll eat my hat if they made any money on the releases of series like Jinki Extend and Gravion. Ironically I did actually buy the first volumes of both those series but they were complete pap.


So there is no doubt about it, there are many factors. I wonder if any of the anime companies have ever tried to do extensive research into the trends and habits of the fandom. Maybe they could save money with ‘subtitle only’ releases. If fan-subbing is so popular then I guess subs must be the preferred way of watching anime for the majority. And many dub fans would probably just accept that and watch subs and those that don’t would be few enough to not be a concerning loss. Or is it the case that dub fans are what keeps the DVD market alive?

I’m currently buying Simoun (import – me bad) but that is being released sub only with 26 episodes over 5 discs and it does have some decent extras such as VA interviews. And it’s cheap too, only £9.80 a disc from UP1. And finally, it is a pretty decent show. Well done Media Blasters!

Oh and why do ‘live-action’ foreign films (except kung fu movies) never get dubbed?

Maybe only releasing boxsets is the most simple but effective way of making a difference?

To be honest I’m getting a headache just thinking about all this. I shall quit now.

 

[beez_andrew]

The only way forward I can see is for distributors to stop releasing individual volumes and simply release box sets - There's less for distributors to release and I'd imagine there's less of a loss involved if sales flop if only one item is released. It would be a move greeted with a joy - No-one likes collecting individual volumes for TV series and everyone would rather simply buy a box set.

Unfortunately that's really not the case. Imagine if you will the overall costs - now say it's a series like Nodame Cantabile or if we pick a licensed one Chevalier D'eon.

Now if you release it over 6 volumes, 4 eps a DVD, at 19.99 (which has a net sale price of £12 in the end) - and it's a low selling release so shifts say 1000 units per volume, you have circa £12k per DVD volume, tallying up to £72k for the series. That's still very potentially a loss in all likelihood, but it covers most of the costs at least.

Should you box a release into say a standalone box. Let's say you get the same 1000 buyers picking it up, plus another 1000 fans overjoyed this style is being followed, but nobody else as its a title only known in the fan community.

Two price points here to highlight:

- Fans want their boxsets cheap - so demand a £29.99-39.99 price point for their box set release of this series:

At 29.99 - 2000 units the margin for the publisher would be £19 give or take. Leaving you with for the entire series a total of £38k for the whole series.

39.99 * 2000 units, means net margin of circa £26, giving a total of £52,000 for the whole series.

Say you have to charge 49.99 as a maximum (which still many fans would likely shirk in favour of a weaker priced US box when it came out) then - that's a net margin of about 32.50 - at 2000 units sold you then have £65K.

You can see the problem here? So in fact if you cannot guarantee a large number of box set sales for a series you stand to lose a LOT of money by releasing it straight to that format.

To do this you need strong ties to your retailers, which is difficult to do unless you can prove steady unit sales. It's a vicious cycle really.

Of course the numbers supplied for unit sales are elaborated for ease etc - but overall they're not far off depending on which company you look at.

This is not to say its not a model being considered here, nothing ventured nothing gained and I agree that the current format is not the way forth. I'm just highlighting the risks and costs behind it all so people know that it's not as easy as just cancelling single DVD releases and starting boxset only releases will save anyone. On the contrary if done wrongly it could bury companies quicker than single volumes :/.

I've a more general post coming on it all too - just thought people may be interested in the numbers involved in making one boxset work and the big risks they involve.

 

[Archaic Sage]

The biggest issue is the time it takes for the UK market to get their hands on the license of any anime they want. If it takes them the entire lifespan of the anime's viewing time in Japan, they've already lost the battle.

If a successful series (ala Host Club, Welcome to the NKH, Kanon 2007, Lucky Star, Higurashi etc) aren't licensed quick enough, the fansubbers are going to get in there first. Many who download fansubs will happily buy the legit DVDs when they come out; however, if the distributors got in there quick enough they could send the C&D letters to the fansubbers four episodes in. That way the suspense is there and the series becomes much harder to obtain illegally.

Once it's been licensed they then need to get it translated into subs very quickly, but of course professionally. Then release it in a digital format online for £2/episode (for example) as there's not VA costs and a professional team of subbers can get things done at incredible speeds. That way the company is making money whilst the US side of things are dubbing the series and getting the marketing together.

Then if it's been successful online (which the above series would've been) have a limited run on DVD sales and if it sells out put a standard run in.

It's all down to getting the right timing, figures and protecting your properties. You'd never seen companies like ABC, BBC or even companies like Sony, Nintendo or SEGA allowing massive directories of licensed goods up online. They'd get them forcibly removed. Heck, Nintendo even gets Ebay items forcibly removed.

 

[beez_andrew]

Re: Ledford blames fansubs for closing down ADV UK's operati

Before I discuss anything else - I'm going to say I voted a plain no to the question.

While in this case I, personally, think the statement from Mr Ledford (anime's own version of Prince Philip) being a case of bandwagon leaping, at least in the case of ADV UK's sudden depature. Though fansubs do have an effect.

In reality - what fansubs offer people if you break it down to its bare components is this - a free service with all the features that many fans may be willing to pay a set amount for a month. This is of course with exception to those who never plan to buy the release in the first place and are just downloading something to pass the time. It's a harsh reality of it, a series made hyper popular may well not be supported on DVD sales post high success during fansub release even IF extras are good and release window is great purely because the masses who watched it weren't in the category willing to pay.

This isn't an anime-only thing though so don't take it as a jab meant at anyone - it happens with music, TV shows, games - you name it! I'm pretty sure at least 80-90% of everyone here has found themselves downloading a copyrighted work of some size for one reason or another that you never had an intention of buying.

Furthermore, here's an e-mail received (which was posted by Aion in the other thread) from ADV right before they closed down their London offices. It was sent to a fan complaining about not having received part of his order in the clearance sale.

The crux of the issue is that not enough people appear to be buying ADV's anime DVDs in the UK. Are the UK anime fans being cheap-skates, refusing to buy anime at full prices, yet more than willing to turn up when a bargain sale is in the offing? If fansubs didn't exist, would anime fans be more likely to buy DVDs?

Unfortunately looking at the sales figures, I wish I could say it's a blip localized to ADV, but the short answer to the first question is is yes* but with fair reason up until now. Second answer is most likely no.

It's important to draw a line between the statement in the US and the UK. The UK office is not blaming fansubs nor have I heard them say so, that statement has been attached post fact by the US to it, more as an opportunity to bandwagon than anything.

ADV UK have lead the scene for many years at least from an industry perspective and due to great staff they have always been at the forefront of promoting anime at social events. I have a great deal of respect for them and this email sent matches with the sales really, though it may be a question of licenses recently not appealing to the fans as a whole.

What I would say is the UK will leap on £1 DVDs, but will not support overly expensive releases with bare bones extras on the hope things will get better if they buy it. As a marketer and a consumer this seems a reasonable concept to me, if there's a more competitive release on the market elsewhere it's not a surprise if people buy it (though I would hope people listen to my requests that to make the changes and attempts we are trying - it does need people in the UK's help by buying the changed products!!)

In fact I think as an industry we owe you all an apology. We expect a lot from you that is not entirely, if at all fair. Change has been a long time coming and we're bringing it in now, you only have to look at the work companies such as ourselves are doing now.

Again personally I'm not happy with the status quo, 6 DVDs a series etc. I wish I could say with 100% certainty that that style of release without extras is done for with Beez for good - but as you can see from our latest release structure - we're pushing for it to be that way and provided it's successful I'll do my best to make it stick provided it's supported!

I sound like a stuck record but we're trying to do it differently now but we've already listened to everyone as a whole (my continued presence here is a testament to that ^^) and I'm pushing for even more changes to the system for some forthcoming licenses we're lining up at present. I just hope our licenses appeal to the masses!

Finally, there's the issue of time. Ledford's lamenting fansubs, but the simple fact of the matter is that they exist and are here to stay. Gurren Lagann was one of the most exciting, fan-driven, hyped series to air in Japan last year. It finished in October, but the fans still have no sign of a DVD release; every day they waste, hundreds of anime fans discover the series, find it doesn't have a DVD release and watch it by other means

I wish I could spill what I know about this, however it's not really mine to do, but let's say this:

Gurren Lagann had artwork, a dub and translation ready as evident from their preview screenings etc. So ask yourselves this:

It's one of the only titles to not reappear on the US or UK listings (not that it was on UK listings yet to start for DVD launch). Why would this be if all the production materials were available?

I'll leave it for you to consider now there as that's all I can say .

The sheer fact that anime fans, most of whom are highly connected to communication networks like the internet, have to wait such a long time to see their favorite anime locally released is a massive contributing factor to this proliferation of illegal digital distribution. After all, the industry is supposed to serve the customers, and so, for all their complaints about their customers, are the anime publishers meeting our demands?

Here's a pitch for everyone, as I am fully agree your statement - it's not the customer's job to serve the industry after all:

- What if you could get anime within 1-2 weeks of airing in Japan - subtitled via the internet?

- What if also there was a Video on Demand service with a catalog of old titles available from the brand name, with a wide range of notable titles among which ones never released in Europe?

- Say this had two methods - pay as you go (where you pay per episode/series you want to watch like on iTunes) and the other for fans who love their anime and as much as they can get an "All you can eat pass" (though being digital I of course mean watch instead of eat ).

- Free samples (say episode 1 for argument's sakes) were offered by streaming for people to judge if it was a show they wanted to watch or not.

Without discussing fees there, it's the basic pitch. How many people here would be interested by such a solution assuming prices were reasonable? How many would still download fansubs?

* Long answer: Yes, sadly it is.**
** Directors cut extended edition answer: Yes, sadly it really is.

 

[Archaic Sage]

- What if you could get anime within 1-2 weeks of airing in Japan - subtitled via the internet?

No need for fansubs

- What if also there was a Video on Demand service with a catalogue of old titles available from the brand name, with a wide range of notable titles among which ones never released in Europe?

That would be a brilliant addition as there are many animes that have been discontinued that are still licensed here that I simply can't get my hands on.

- Say this had two methods - pay as you go (where you pay per episode/series you want to watch like on iTunes) and the other for fans who love their anime and as much as they can get an "All you can eat pass" (though being digital I of course mean watch instead of eat Razz).

With payment methods, it's a tough one. Would an all you can easy pass mean streaming from a site, or an all you can eat download pass. I think many people like streaming, but many wouldn't want to pay a subscription to a streaming site that may go down the pan and they didn't buy the DVDs that they would've done otherwise.

Pay as you go through i-Tunes is also an awesome idea, both would work in favour of the consume and the industry. Especially if it were industry wide, or Beez, MVM, Manga Entertainment etc all working to produce one mega site to download anime from.

- Free samples (say episode 1 for argument's sakes) were offered by streaming for people to judge if it was a show they wanted to watch or not.

Free samples are a great idea, after all, many PC games give "demo" titles out to keep the fans wanting the game.

Finally, would this mean that you could get around the extortionate rate of the BBFC?

As a note, I think there would still be many fans who would want a DVD release as it goes without saying that people like hard copies of things. I'm the sort of person who will buy an album through i-Tunes and then end up buying it again as I want the cover art, or the bonus track or something.

 

[Ryo Chan]

Here's a pitch for everyone, as I am fully agree your statement - it's not the customer's job to serve the industry after all:

- What if you could get anime within 1-2 weeks of airing in Japan - subtitled via the internet?

- What if also there was a Video on Demand service with a catalog of old titles available from the brand name, with a wide range of notable titles among which ones never released in Europe?

- Say this had two methods - pay as you go (where you pay per episode/series you want to watch like on iTunes) and the other for fans who love their anime and as much as they can get an "All you can eat pass" (though being digital I of course mean watch instead of eat Razz).

- Free samples (say episode 1 for argument's sakes) were offered by streaming for people to judge if it was a show they wanted to watch or not.

Without discussing fees there, it's the basic pitch. How many people here would be interested by such a solution assuming prices were reasonable? How many would still download fansubs?

* Long answer: Yes, sadly it is.**
** Directors cut extended edition answer: Yes, sadly it really is.

Very interesting concept there Andrew. The first point would be mainly "at what quality" Yes you can get fansubs within 2 days of a japanese release, but they tend to have quality issues (though not always) with bad translations/audio/spelling and video quality. But if it could be guarenteed a professional attempt at it, i would personally say it would be a "BIG" success not only for the UK, but all over the globe. Though there will still be fansubs out there, i expect most of the big ones would lose the will to fight.

point 3 may impact point 4 a bit, but personally i see 2 options, buy a full series for so much, or buy 10 episodes (or less for the shorter 13 episode series) for a cheaper price but after that the consumer would have to pay the remaining price of the full series.

This would be a good way for people to get to know a series before they risk it all. Granted the 1 episode free idea is good too, but may series i enjoy don't kick in really to the halfway point, the beginning really being "get to know characters" or "fan Service"

but yes long answer short, If companies did try put this theories into practice, i can gladly say i for 1 would be all in favour of ditching fan subs. And with the latest goverment plans to try and stop "illegal downloading" it may be something anime companies may need to look into properly soon, before it's too late and the fansub community, and possibly the anime one gets a ferm stake through the heart

(good god this has to be possibly the longest post i've "EVER" made, so i'll appologise for any spelling mistakes or bad grammer right now)

 

[rick]

I’ll eat my hat if they made any money on the releases of series like Jinki Extend and Gravion.

I've got all 3 volumes of Jinki and, personally, its a pretty decent show. Though I can't stand Gravion.

Oh and why do ‘live-action’ foreign films (except kung fu movies) never get dubbed?

This is something that always bugs me; if someone can happily watch a foreign film with subtitles, then why do some people still prefer dub? Or, rather, why dub them in the first place? People don't blink an eye whether or not live-action films get dubbed because they'll happily watch it subtitled without giving it a second though, but why anime? Its all confusing stuff.

 

[Ryo Chan]

alot easier to lipsync animation that it is live action

 

[Just Passing Through]

I think the misleading implication here is that ADV UK died because of UK fans downloading fansubs.

That isn't necessarily the case, as we don't know how badly ADV UK was haemoraghing cash, if at all. What we do know is that ADV in the US were the ones caught out by the downturn in the market, whether it is fansubs, overstimating the market, the artificially inflated anime boom of the early 2000s.

It's ADV US that had to renegotiate its licences, that had to cut off expensive ventures like Newtype, and the European offices. So the immediate reason why ADV UK died was because ADV in the US killed it.

It may have been a necessary move for the company's survival, utterly justifiable and understandable. If they hadn't done so, perhaps we would have no ADV titles scheduled at all, instead of a two months hiatus.

But to come out with a statement that in effect shifts blame directly to fans for a decision that they made, is hurtful and juvenile. What kind of marketing uses fear and guilt to persuade audiences to buy into what you're selling?

I'd expect it from current politicians, but not from an entertainment company.

 

[Rui]

As a note, I think there would still be many fans who would want a DVD release as it goes without saying that people like hard copies of things. I'm the sort of person who will buy an album through i-Tunes and then end up buying it again as I want the cover art, or the bonus track or something.

Me too

I don't do fansubs (used to occasionally in the VHS days, seems pointless now and I've yet to find any series on earth which I needed so badly I couldn't wait a few months, even a few years, for). So andrew's query isn't something I'd be too useful on - I'm in a teeny minority as a massive collector of legit-only releases.

I feel I understand the ADV USA's frustrations and since I've seen the damage heavy fansubbing can do in others, who often buy no discs ever, yet name themselves fans, I hope the companies here and abroad manage to find the balance between protecting their releases and not annoying the actual fans. I'm worried this will end up with my enjoyment reduced - like when I had to boycott Avex's CDs for a couple of years due to their ridiculous CCCD music protection drive. When they stopped that madness, it was expensive catching up too :s

Though incidentally I think the ADV UK staff member's comment in that e-mail was extremely unprofessional and rude regardless of the circumstances. We all feel unappreciated and hard done by at some point in our careers and I know firsthand that watching so-called "fans" bite the hands that feed them and revel in bootlegs and fansubs when you are paying/creating things is hurtful, but lashing out at someone for participating in an offer they initiated themselves was poor. I suppose they knew they'd face no repercussions for being a jerk so just let it out. I know it was an isolated person, but it did make me feel a bit annoyed about the ADV UK (full price) titles I have ordered in the past. I don't like people being jerks to customers.

Of course, this won't effect me haemorrhaging money to anime companies in future to feed my hobby in the slightest

I'd much prefer physical discs to downloaded episodes. I'm worried that this model will become unsustainable. I don't have television, nor a television licence, because I'm entirely a collector of media, so I'd be limited to iTunes (which is fine) or physical media to indulge.

The biggest black mark I've found on legit digital anime distribution has always been the reliance on overly limited systems. I am a Mac user of 20 years. I will not ever buy a Windows machine just to watch anime, it's simply not happening, so it frustrates me in R1 when distributors insist on using poorly implemented DRM systems which prevent me viewing the anime at all despite being in a house which contains 6 PCs, 2 laptops and heaven knows how many consoles.

I don't mind DRM etc at all, it just has to let me actually view the files and preferably in perpetuity (for a fee) rather than a rental model, though some may disagree. I'm not sure I'd go for an All You Can Eat style pass, but if the quantities and titles were there then it's a possibility...

I would probably though, I have to say, be most tempted by the idea of otherwise unreleaseable titles going digital-only. As much as I'd prefer discs, at the end of the day I'd rather see sub-only [Insert Obscure 80s Series Here] before I die somehow than resort to "fan"subs or brutally expensive out of print import box sets.

I can't stand dubs myself so needless to say, a sub option (even on preview episodes) would be a requirement. Or even raw for the biggest speed freaks.

I don't know if this would in any way circumvent the BBFC bottlenecks - it *should*, in a sensible world, as there's nothing stopping any of us running to Youtube at any moment and watching hardcore scat porn that wouldn't get through uncut here on DVD in a million years - but "should" and "would" don't always see eye to eye in this country...

R

 

[Gacha]

Re: Ledford blames fansubs for closing down ADV UK's operati

- What if you could get anime within 1-2 weeks of airing in Japan - subtitled via the internet?

- What if also there was a Video on Demand service with a catalog of old titles available from the brand name, with a wide range of notable titles among which ones never released in Europe?

- Say this had two methods - pay as you go (where you pay per episode/series you want to watch like on iTunes) and the other for fans who love their anime and as much as they can get an "All you can eat pass" (though being digital I of course mean watch instead of eat ).

- Free samples (say episode 1 for argument's sakes) were offered by streaming for people to judge if it was a show they wanted to watch or not.

Without discussing fees there, it's the basic pitch. How many people here would be interested by such a solution assuming prices were reasonable? How many would still download fansubs?

* Long answer: Yes, sadly it is.**
** Directors cut extended edition answer: Yes, sadly it really is.

You wouldn't happen to browse 4chan by any chance?
Becuase i was discussing on there when we all thought adv was going to crash and burn and we came up with the exact same idea

Anyway i can remember even hardcore piraters saying they would pay for an on demand service.
When it comes to fansubs it's a take it or leave it affair if it has mistakes and takes 2 weeks to release an episode nothing you can do and this frustrates people but.
A proffesionally subtitled high quality and speedy release is exactly what people would pay for in this day and age.

 

[ConanThe3rd]

I wouln't admit to going to 4chan if I were you, it'd probably do your standing as a not in jail person bad standing.

Unless you only browse /m/ or /toy/ then we're cool.