Japan starts crack down on fansubs and scanlations
- Thread starter Paul
- Start date
Throwing in my two cents, I am not a huge fan of moe anime. I prefer my anime to have some substance, or have characters I really can relate to.
Which is why I think classing Air in with typical, devoid of any depth series is quite insulting to the show.
If anyone has seen Air all the way through, whilst there is an undeniable fact that there are younger, cute characters, its evident that the series does not hinge on them just going stupid things to make fanboys gush.
The series is one of the most heartfelt, emotional and human series I have watched - more so than any of these "classically omg amaazzzingg" Evangelion type series. Sure, Eva is a good series, but facts cant deny that Shinji is one of the weakest, least inspiring characters in all anime. I cannot comment on the other series that CitizenGeek mentioned as I have not seen them, but for all of Air's "moe" content, it's main character - Misuzu - is a much stronger, respectable and altogether more human character than Shinji. Even when she is at her worst, she is still determined to keep going for her aunt Haruko and for Yukito.
Indeed everyone is going to have a preference for certain series, but it is wrong to proclaim that moe type series should not be around. One persons classification of a moe series could be vastly different to another, and to attempt to deny the right for a series such as Air to be around, just so that another self indulgent wank-fest like Evangelion can be made seems rather stupid. The world already had Evangelion. It was groundbreaking for it's time, but we do not need another. We do not need more series where the character development over the course of the series is reflective of the emotional range of a corpse.
I am not attempting to fuel this argument or to stir up more, but the fact is that everyone will indeed have a different type of series they enjoy, and that we should accept that fact. For every work of genius you're going to have another typical shonen jump series. Likewise, for every controversial, "groundbreaking" series like Evangelion, you're going to have your Chobits (loved the manga, didn't think the anime was anywhere even half as inspired.) To actively speak out against an entire branch of series, and to generalise it as is being done seems rather pointless, and whilst there are some series that do not contribute anything to the anime market, reading the comments that Air is one of these series riled me up highly. Air, is in my opinion, a series where there are definite aspects of which anime should have more of - human characters with definite emotional depth, underlying tragedy which aids the fulfilment of the plot, and high production values which continue throughout. If more series developed their protagonists even half as much over 26 episodes as Air does over its 12, I think there would be more successful and critically acclaimed series within the market.
Which is why I think classing Air in with typical, devoid of any depth series is quite insulting to the show.
If anyone has seen Air all the way through, whilst there is an undeniable fact that there are younger, cute characters, its evident that the series does not hinge on them just going stupid things to make fanboys gush.
The series is one of the most heartfelt, emotional and human series I have watched - more so than any of these "classically omg amaazzzingg" Evangelion type series. Sure, Eva is a good series, but facts cant deny that Shinji is one of the weakest, least inspiring characters in all anime. I cannot comment on the other series that CitizenGeek mentioned as I have not seen them, but for all of Air's "moe" content, it's main character - Misuzu - is a much stronger, respectable and altogether more human character than Shinji. Even when she is at her worst, she is still determined to keep going for her aunt Haruko and for Yukito.
Indeed everyone is going to have a preference for certain series, but it is wrong to proclaim that moe type series should not be around. One persons classification of a moe series could be vastly different to another, and to attempt to deny the right for a series such as Air to be around, just so that another self indulgent wank-fest like Evangelion can be made seems rather stupid. The world already had Evangelion. It was groundbreaking for it's time, but we do not need another. We do not need more series where the character development over the course of the series is reflective of the emotional range of a corpse.
I am not attempting to fuel this argument or to stir up more, but the fact is that everyone will indeed have a different type of series they enjoy, and that we should accept that fact. For every work of genius you're going to have another typical shonen jump series. Likewise, for every controversial, "groundbreaking" series like Evangelion, you're going to have your Chobits (loved the manga, didn't think the anime was anywhere even half as inspired.) To actively speak out against an entire branch of series, and to generalise it as is being done seems rather pointless, and whilst there are some series that do not contribute anything to the anime market, reading the comments that Air is one of these series riled me up highly. Air, is in my opinion, a series where there are definite aspects of which anime should have more of - human characters with definite emotional depth, underlying tragedy which aids the fulfilment of the plot, and high production values which continue throughout. If more series developed their protagonists even half as much over 26 episodes as Air does over its 12, I think there would be more successful and critically acclaimed series within the market.
CitizenGeek
Guild Member
I'm not even going to compare something like Evangelion to moe drivel like AIR, and I'm surprised that someone who seemingly wants to be taken seriously would do such a thing.
Nice try, though ;]
Nice try, though ;]
Im not asking you to try to compare something you probably see as your bible to something you see as a trashy magazine, I'm more asking you to have an open mind.
To some people, Evangelion will be more inspiring and enjoyable. To others, Air will. We should just accept that fact and move on.
Personally for me, I see more character development in Air. For you, theres more in Evangelion. Cant we just agree to accept that fact and move on?
To some people, Evangelion will be more inspiring and enjoyable. To others, Air will. We should just accept that fact and move on.
Personally for me, I see more character development in Air. For you, theres more in Evangelion. Cant we just agree to accept that fact and move on?
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
Owtch. I knew Eva had it's detractors but to compare a Key H-game anime to it, that's just reaching for the nukes.Cago1020 said:
Slowly getting back on topic, I remember the days of good ol' VHS, it was hard enough for me to find genuine Anime, let alone pirate stuff, but fans still bought and watched it. I know that I only experienced a small smattering of what was available, but I was content with my Dominion and 3x3 Eyes releases. These days everybody wants something for free, which I understand, but I know a LOT of people that take it too far.
I'm no angel, back at uni I downloaded Love Hina, Tsubasa, Magical Shopping Arcade, Wonderful Days, etc, etc, and to this day I haven't watched them all because I can't be bothered. In fact looking at it now, all the Anime I downloaded and watched I've now bought all of, and the stuff I haven't bothered to watch, I don't wanna buy. It was impulse, I hasn't killed me.
Fansubbing has helped me to buy series, like Samurai 7, I'm desperately trying to buy all the Limited Edition boxes, but it was only because I started the Fansub otherwise i wouldn't have bothered. What really gets my goat is when people (like my sister) complain that Naruto on TV is only on episode 4, when online they've reached episode 2 million and so they "won't watch or buy it til it catches up" ... which it won't, ever!
For a good few years now I've stopped almost all downloading of anything, I try and get freeware programs for most things, only buy Anime, and as a result my Anime watching has been severely limited, but it hasn't stopped my interest or made me forget about it. I try and do other things to keep my fandom going, or borrow from like minded friends.
These days people can't help themselves, they want everything now and don't expect to wait at all. I don't think Fansubs should be stopped completely, but maybe only work til halfway through a series, thus forcing the real fan to buy it the rest.
Oh, and I'd never download Manga, never seen the point, it's cheap enough anyway ... remember the days of titan books, £15 a GN anyone?
I'm no angel, back at uni I downloaded Love Hina, Tsubasa, Magical Shopping Arcade, Wonderful Days, etc, etc, and to this day I haven't watched them all because I can't be bothered. In fact looking at it now, all the Anime I downloaded and watched I've now bought all of, and the stuff I haven't bothered to watch, I don't wanna buy. It was impulse, I hasn't killed me.
Fansubbing has helped me to buy series, like Samurai 7, I'm desperately trying to buy all the Limited Edition boxes, but it was only because I started the Fansub otherwise i wouldn't have bothered. What really gets my goat is when people (like my sister) complain that Naruto on TV is only on episode 4, when online they've reached episode 2 million and so they "won't watch or buy it til it catches up" ... which it won't, ever!
For a good few years now I've stopped almost all downloading of anything, I try and get freeware programs for most things, only buy Anime, and as a result my Anime watching has been severely limited, but it hasn't stopped my interest or made me forget about it. I try and do other things to keep my fandom going, or borrow from like minded friends.
These days people can't help themselves, they want everything now and don't expect to wait at all. I don't think Fansubs should be stopped completely, but maybe only work til halfway through a series, thus forcing the real fan to buy it the rest.
Oh, and I'd never download Manga, never seen the point, it's cheap enough anyway ... remember the days of titan books, £15 a GN anyone?
MKT said:Slowly getting back on topic, I remember the days of good ol' VHS, it was hard enough for me to find genuine Anime, let alone pirate stuff, but fans still bought and watched it. I know that I only experienced a small smattering of what was available, but I was content with my Dominion and 3x3 Eyes releases. These days everybody wants something for free, which I understand, but I know a LOT of people that take it too far.
I'm no angel, back at uni I downloaded Love Hina, Tsubasa, Magical Shopping Arcade, Wonderful Days, etc, etc, and to this day I haven't watched them all because I can't be bothered. In fact looking at it now, all the Anime I downloaded and watched I've now bought all of, and the stuff I haven't bothered to watch, I don't wanna buy. It was impulse, I hasn't killed me.
Fansubbing has helped me to buy series, like Samurai 7, I'm desperately trying to buy all the Limited Edition boxes, but it was only because I started the Fansub otherwise i wouldn't have bothered. What really gets my goat is when people (like my sister) complain that Naruto on TV is only on episode 4, when online they've reached episode 2 million and so they "won't watch or buy it til it catches up" ... which it won't, ever!
For a good few years now I've stopped almost all downloading of anything, I try and get freeware programs for most things, only buy Anime, and as a result my Anime watching has been severely limited, but it hasn't stopped my interest or made me forget about it. I try and do other things to keep my fandom going, or borrow from like minded friends.
These days people can't help themselves, they want everything now and don't expect to wait at all. I don't think Fansubs should be stopped completely, but maybe only work til halfway through a series, thus forcing the real fan to buy it the rest.
Oh, and I'd never download Manga, never seen the point, it's cheap enough anyway ... remember the days of titan books, £15 a GN anyone?
i've never downloaded more than a chapter of manga tbh
mainly because i can only stand certain sytles of manga so i just use the chapter to check it out
Voddas said:
See I'm lucky to that end, I live in North London so it only takes me 45mins-1hr to go to Central London, then I can browse in FP, Gosh or Orbital Manga. Some of the publishers have previews online of the next release, but I've always found it's never enough really, only a few pages at most.
It's a pity the publishers can't operate a similar system to some of the Anime companies, where Volume 1 DVD's are about £5 instead of £15-£20. If Volume 1 of a Manga series was a couple of pounds, I'd be more inclined to splash out and take a risk. Or even if you could officially download a substantial amount of Volume 1 as a taster.
I think the new Guyver series offered the first episode as a streamed video online, which I thought was a fairly good move, I don't know how much it helped them but I felt it was a small step in the right direction.
Yes and no.MKT said:
The manga I download is stuff that hasn't been officially released in english, like Narutaru, Bokurano, Helter Skelter, Kagen no Tsuki... it's the only way I'd get to read it, and since no-one's losing any cash because of it, why not?
I'd much prefer to have those given proper releases though, I like holding the book in my hands.
I've just started reading manga online recently but everything I've been reading I shall eventually get around to buying... probably. As with most people, The thing about official manga is that you can take it anywhere with ease unlike carrying a laptop for the latest fansub or a portable DVD for the latest DVD release. Even if I won't ever read the manga again and it sits on the shelf, its much nicer to own a hardcopy, That applies to DVD releases as well.
ConanThe3rd
Railgun
That's like asking common man to shift the tide. and £15 is the exception to the rule as far as RRP is concerned.MKT said:
I may sound stupid but it roped me in, I wouldn't normally have bought Burst Angel or Lunar Legend Tsukihime, but the first volume was a fiver, in fact 90% of the Volume one Anime DVD's were a fiver in HMV. I'm now happily saving away to buy the next volumes of both series.
I find it strange that in this day and age, there isn't a amicable solution to the piracy issue, because at the end of the day that's what it is. I've never seen it any other way, although I believe that there is no black and white distinction, there are grey areas. For us Anime fans it's a problem with a twist, we already have a hard time in the UK getting releases, and then it's only a small sample of whats available. I imagine there are many undiscovered gems sitting on a DVD in Japan that we'll never get to see.
I do have issue with people downloading what's already available over here, and it annoys me when people get the fansub early and won't support the DVD release by buying when it's available later.
I know some people who only watch Anime because they can get it for free, even when the DVD is available, which I don't think is fair. It sounds hypocritical, but I find it more acceptable if someone gets hold of a fansub that won't ever be released overseas, because it's the only way to see it, and therefore not necessarily harming sales.
I find it strange that in this day and age, there isn't a amicable solution to the piracy issue, because at the end of the day that's what it is. I've never seen it any other way, although I believe that there is no black and white distinction, there are grey areas. For us Anime fans it's a problem with a twist, we already have a hard time in the UK getting releases, and then it's only a small sample of whats available. I imagine there are many undiscovered gems sitting on a DVD in Japan that we'll never get to see.
I do have issue with people downloading what's already available over here, and it annoys me when people get the fansub early and won't support the DVD release by buying when it's available later.
I know some people who only watch Anime because they can get it for free, even when the DVD is available, which I don't think is fair. It sounds hypocritical, but I find it more acceptable if someone gets hold of a fansub that won't ever be released overseas, because it's the only way to see it, and therefore not necessarily harming sales.
MKT said:
I doubt that in the literal sense. The Japanese market is pretty odd. Most of these gems would probably have been out of print a year after they're released, or maybe with a ridiculously priced boxset on the market.
In the other sense, yeah, there are a hell of a lot of 'gems' out there that will never see the light of day here. Geneon used to license quite a few of the less mainstream titles, actually, I was kind of hoping we'd see Dokuro-chan here someday. Just goes to show that they're going to stay in Japan for a very long time if not forever, as Geneon show it just isn't profitable to release them over in the Western world.