How to avoid being ripped off by dodgy traders at the Expo

T

Tomodachi

Completely Average High School Student
Hi everyone,

If you have been to the London Expo before you may well have seen that some of the traders selling dodgy goods on their stalls. Here are some tips to help you avoid getting ripped off by any dodgy traders which might be at any future London Expos.


Firstly, be suspicious. If anything looks even remotely suspect then don't buy it. Dodgy traders will soon give up if no-one buys their dodgy goods.

If you do want to buy something then make sure you ask for a full receipt. If you don't have a receipt or other good proof that you bought goods from any trader then Trading Standards won't be able to help you get your money back. No proof, no redress.

If a trader says they won't give you a receipt then don't buy from them.

If a trader says that they can't give you a receipt because they don't have the means to then ask if you or a friend can photograph or video the transaction so that you have some proof of purchase. Again, if the trader says no then don't buy from them.

Should you still feel like buying something even if you think it is counterfeit (which includes so-called 'unlicensed' goods) then consider that you will be paying a great deal more for it than the trader did when they bought it. For example, you can buy counterfeit plush toys from fakers in China for three to four US Dollars. That's roughly three pound. Traders usually sell them here for anything from sixteen pound upwards. That's a hefty ripoff and profit for a fake.

Report any traders/shops you see selling counterfeit goods or things like Region 1 DVDs to your local Trading Standards via the Consumer Direct website: http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/

If you take any photos of counterfeit (fake and unlicensed) goods which also show which stall they were on and can say how you know they are fake or unlicensed then please make them available to Trading Standards and post them around the various community sites and forums so that everyone can see for themselves.

Report traders that you see selling dodgy goods to ExCel itself via their visitor feedback email address: visitorfeedback@excel-london.co.uk

It doesn't matter if you aren't able to name which stall when you complain to ExCel. General complaints will get the message through just as well.

The more of us that complain and kick up a fuss the quicker the dodgy goods will be gone, so please help the community to chase the fakers out. Some of us (yes, including me) have already made complaints to Trading Standards and so on after the May Expo so you won't be on your own when you complain. We can get rid of the dodgy traders and shops that are giving the whole community a bad name, so please stand up and be counted.
 
It's illegal.

All DVDs sold in the UK have to have the BBFC mark (BBFC age rating) to show they have been through the certification process. R1 DVDs don't have one for obvious reasons.

Aside from some people not owning multi-region DVD players, or not being able to figure out how to make their machine into a multi-region player, the content of some R1 DVDs breaks UK law in areas such as obscenity and so on. Being in possession of such material can be an offence in itself so even just buying them can put you at risk of very severe legal consequences if you happen to buy the 'wrong' thing. So apart from it being illegal to sell R1 DVDs here, it's better for the community if individuals who want uncensored stuff and know what to avoid take the responsibility for importing what they want themselves.
 
The following passage is taken directly from the BBFC website www.bbfc.co.uk

“ A foreign DVD offered for sale in the UK is likely to be illegal under the Video Recordings Act 1983 unless its content (including any additional material) has been classified by the BBFC.

“ The DVD must also be labelled in accordance with Video Recordings (Labelling) Regulations 1985 & 1998 (including the unique registration number). You would also be advised to contact FACT to ensure that there are no copyright issues.”

It is highly unlikely that a DVD title that has not had a United Kingdom release would comply with the above.

In selling such a product, the trader would be infringing both the Video Recordings Act 1983, and the Video Recordings (Labelling) Regulations 1985.

My point is very clear. Selling R1 DVDs in the UK is illegal. If what you are buying is the same as the UK release (pretty much the only reason for non BBFC marked titles to be legal) then why would you want the R1?

If you want to know which UK anime releases have been cut then read the BBFC details for them on the BBFC website. I can think of at least one 'infamous' title that has huge chunks which are not in the UK release, and I can think of at least a few titles that won't be getting a UK release at all. I'm sure most people who have been around for a while know the score on that.

Bottom line, R1 DVDs should not be on sale at the expo. If you want them, import them yourself.
 
F*ck the BBFC. F*ck 'em. Not being able to freely buy legal goods from other countries is anti free-trade and anti consumer choice. It might be illegal but it's a bad law, so it's good when people break it.

Also, you've got to be the most obvious corporate shill I've ever seen.
 
The only reason why i buy R1's is simple. They haven't been licensed in the UK and certainly do not look like being licensed in the UK. The reason? Rather simple, whats the point of putting a series through the BBFC at such a huge cost when they possibly wont get a return on it.

Basically i dont see any problems with traders selling R1 dvds, but then again it is rather normal
 
im not going to name the company that sells R1 at the expo as I buy from them myself online (although I havent been to the Expo, but I know they do and I guess they will sell R1 dvds) But the reason I buy R1 dvds is either 'cos
- they never get released here in the UK
- Anime is cut in the UK and not in Region 1
-Bad subs in Region 2 while much better in Region 1 e.g Naruto dvds

If BBFC wants to stop me buying Region 1 dvds, well they better not cut stuff up etc. and for the subs its not there fault it's the company who own the rights here, if they did a better job I wouldnt buy the region 1 dvds as they have better subs.
 
Taken from the VRA

(4) Where a person (in this subsection referred to as the “original supplier”) supplies a video recording to a person who, in the course of a business, makes video works or supplies video recordings, the supply is an exempted supply—
(a)
if it is not made with a view to any further supply of that recording, or
(b)
if it so made, but is not made with a view to the eventual supply of that recording to the public or is made with a view to the eventual supply of that recording to the original supplier.
For the purposes of this subsection, any supply is a supply to the public unless it is—
(i) a supply to a person who, in the course of a business, makes video works or supplies video recordings,
(ii) an exempted supply by virtue of subsection (2) above or subsections (5) to (10) below, or
(iii) a supply outside the United Kingdom.
Click to expand...

Note that final quote... a supply outside the UK, a.k.a. imports.


also

3.
Exempted supplies.
— (1) The provisions of this section apply to determine whether or not a supply of a video recording is an exempted supply for the purposes of this Act.
(2) The supply of a video recording by any person is an exempted supply if it is neither—
(a)
a supply for reward, nor
(b)
a supply in the course or furtherance of a business.
(3) Where on any premises facilities are provided in the course or furtherance of a business for supplying video recordings, the supply by any person of a video recording on those premises is to be treated for the purposes of subsection (2) above as a supply in the course or furtherance of a business.
Click to expand...

If it's not for reward (not many people make a profit selling second hand Region 1 DVDs) and not for a business. Again, selling a few Region 1 DVDs on a stall isn't inherently illegal. The requirement of 'premises' imples a bricks and mortal store with some kind of permanency to it. It's why mail order is perfectly legal, and why imports are perfectly legal.

Basically, what is illegal is selling non-classified material at retail, in bricks and mortar stores. That's it. Before people start railing on the BBFC, remember that the MPAA is just as daft an organisation in the US, and that hasn't even got government legitimacy, but it still rates movies, and still tells people what they can and can't watch. So your mainstream anime movies (the ones that make it to US theatres) will have been rated by the MPAA. Similarly, Region 1 distributors follow a voluntary code of conduct in age rating what they distribute.

The BBFC isn't the sole arbiter of all that is moral on the planet.

The BBFC isn't the final court either. Local authorities have the final say in what can and can't be shown in cinemas in their boundaries. It's why certain towns and cities banned Life of Brian when the BBFC had passed it. It's why certain West End cinemas were showing The Exorcist for years while it was still banned by the BBFC.
 
Before people start railing on the BBFC, remember that the MPAA is just as daft an organisation in the US, and that hasn't even got government legitimacy, but it still rates movies, and still tells people what they can and can't watch. So your mainstream anime movies (the ones that make it to US theatres) will have been rated by the MPAA. Similarly, Region 1 distributors follow a voluntary code of conduct in age rating what they distribute.
Click to expand...
but they aren't obliged to, and that government legitimacy is exactly what makes the BBFC ten times worse. You can sell an unrated DVD is the US. You can sell one from the UK. You can't do the same here, and the only thing preventing you is the BBFC. It's high time we got rid of this ****, no-one should have the right to tell other people what they can and can't see. Are all men equal? Or are some better than others? Because that's what the existence of the BBFC says.
 
The MPAA decide the ratings that determine what movie plays at what rating in theatres. It's not really about the DVDs although it filters down. What studios want is to avoid the R rating and completely avoid the NC-17 kiss of death. It has to be PG-13 all the way.

But it's not down to guidelines, it's not down to a rigidly defined set of rules, it's about which studio can best line the pockets of the MPAA, it's all so corrupt it stinks. And there's no callback, no right to reply, because it's not legislated for. It's all about money, lobbying and focus groups. Which is why ****** blockbusters that may get a 15 in the UK get a PG-13 in the US, but foreign stuff with subtitles that gets a 12 here, may get an R in the US. Rather the BBFC than the MPAA. But better still to have a body with no censorship powers whatsoever, just a grading society that sorts stuff into appropriate rating slots, and if something does get cut, we can blame the studios.
 
Guys, you are spectacularly missing the point here.

If the Expo is going to be clean it all needs to be clean. No making exceptions so that you can ride your hobby horse about hating censorship or whatever. That's why I mentioned the R1 DVDs.

If it is going to make you bawwwww to report the sale of R1 DVDs at the Expo then don't do so. Other people might want to. It's an option. No need to obsess about it.
 
Just Passing Through said:
The MPAA decide the ratings that determine what movie plays at what rating in theatres. It's not really about the DVDs although it filters down. What studios want is to avoid the R rating and completely avoid the NC-17 kiss of death. It has to be PG-13 all the way.

But it's not down to guidelines, it's not down to a rigidly defined set of rules, it's about which studio can best line the pockets of the MPAA, it's all so corrupt it stinks. And there's no callback, no right to reply, because it's not legislated for. It's all about money, lobbying and focus groups. Which is why ****** blockbusters that may get a 15 in the UK get a PG-13 in the US, but foreign stuff with subtitles that gets a 12 here, may get an R in the US. Rather the BBFC than the MPAA. But better still to have a body with no censorship powers whatsoever, just a grading society that sorts stuff into appropriate rating slots, and if something does get cut, we can blame the studios.
Click to expand...
What theatres do matters very little to me, as they're so overpriced now I never even go anyway. I'm more bothered about someone telling me what I have a right to purchase for viewing myself, in my own home. The MPAA can't do that (after all, there are "unrated" DVDs released in the US with content which wasn't in the theatrical release). The BBFC can do that. They can cut home video releases, and legislation based on their existence prevents uncut ones from abroad being sold here.

The BBFC do nothing of value. If anyone underage wants to play an 18 rated game or watch an 18 rated film, they'll just buy it on-line. The only reason for their existence is market protectionism, under the guise of protecting children. The answer is to remove the BBFC and replace it with nothing, and let parents take responsibility for their own damn kids.

Mangoanimuman said:
Guys, you are spectacularly missing the point here.
Click to expand...
Ahhhaha! Welcome to AUKN!
 
Mangoanimuman said:
Guys, you are spectacularly missing the point here.
Click to expand...

Ooh, the irony...

Just noticed under your favourite anime you have Paranoia Agent listed...

That's the one that the BBFC destroyed an episode of to protect the kiddies...

Haven't you ever wondered why Happy Family Planning was 90 seconds shorter than all the other episodes?

But you can sleep safe at night, knowing that your delicate and fragile sensibilities were protected. I'll watch the complete episode, thank you very much.
 
Yes so this guy really pisses me off.

Ah well I'm not gonna let this punk get to me, If I wanna buy R1's then I shall do so. If it was so illegal then I should have been locked away several times already.

Well I couldn't agree more with Ayase.
 
*Facepalm*

Guys. Can you tell the difference between buying and selling?

I have not told you that it is illegal to buy Region 1 DVDs. You are perfectly entitled to buy and import them (within reason) to your heart's content.

What I have told you is that if the Expo is going to be clean of goods that should not be sold there then no favouritism should be shown. It's just plain stupid to try to get rid of the fakes at the Expo but keep the illegal DVD sales at the Expo. You can't pick and choose which laws you want to obey and have enforced with this.

I'll repeat myself. If you want to buy R1 DVDs then buy and import them yourself. At no point have I told you that you cannot or should not do that.
 
stuart-says-yes said:
Why does this bother you so much about the selling of "illegal" dvd's in the expo?, unless you have a part in the running of the expo, do you?

What kind of country would make it illegal to sell legal dvd's anyway?

also, why must the expo be "clean of goods that shouldn't be there"?
I mean the expo is a good place to get stuff that isn't typically available in the country, why must you spoil it?
Click to expand...

Lol. No, I don't work for the Expo or any related company.

http://www.mcmexpogroup.com/forums/view ... 9&p=519550

That's one of several threads on the Expo forum from people complaining about dodgy goods at the Expo.

Scroll down to the post by Admin-2.

Expo Forum Admin-2 said:
It is NOT for Expo or its staff to act as copyright police. It is up to the copyright holders in conjunction with trading standards. We have no way of knowing what is or is not a fake or indeed unlicenced. If you spot what you think to be fake or unlicenced items then inform the relavant autority.
Click to expand...
That's the Expo organisers attitude. They don't want to take any responsibility for ensuring that the customers (that would be people like me and you if you go) don't get ripped off. So it's up to us to do something about it and protect ourselves and others from the dodgy sellers who want to rip us off.

That's why the Expo should be clean of goods that should not be there.
 
Mangoanimuman said:
Expo Forum Admin-2 said:
]It is NOT for Expo or its staff to act as copyright police. It is up to the copyright holders in conjunction with trading standards. We have no way of knowing what is or is not a fake or indeed unlicenced. If you spot what you think to be fake or unlicenced items then inform the relavant autority.
Click to expand...
That's the Expo organisers attitude. They don't want to take any responsibility for ensuring that the customers (that would be people like me and you if you go) don't get ripped off. So it's up to us to do something about it and protect ourselves and others from the dodgy sellers who want to rip us off.
Click to expand...
You know what, you're both right. It's not their responsibility. It is up to us to look out for ourselves and know what we are buying, each individual. I think what this thread has proved is that not every individual agrees with you about what should and shouldn't be sold at the expo. Don't wanna buy bootlegs, think you should report the sellers? Fine. Don't wanna buy R1 DVDs? Don't. But I don't think trying to organise some sort of vigilante crackdown based upon absolute adherence to the letter of the law is going to work. Especially since none of us had ever heard of you before today.
 
http://www.otakunews.com/piratefaq.php

You might find that to be useful Stuart. It's a US based site, and if you want to confirm the UK legal position you can do so by contacting Consumer Direct.

Don't fall for the old 'It is unlicensed not a fake' rubbish. Unlicensed goods are illegal. Consumer Direct will confirm that.

If you are happy to knowingly pay over the odds for counterfeit goods then that's your lookout. It's quite stupid to pay over the odds, but that's your choice.



ayase, what this thread has proved is that most of the people who responded to my opening post are not very good at reading or thinking. Still, if people want to be mugs and buy dodgy goods from wherever then that's up to them. This thread is not aimed at those people. If people who go to the Expo are cheesed off with the crap that gets sold there and want to do something about it, then this thread is for them.
 
Back
Top