FUNimation suing A.D. Vision, Sentai, Section23 and others

[mangaman74]

There are anime fans who buy DVDs and watch sub only, eschewing the dubs if available, not bothered if they aren't.

There are pirates that rip the English dub versions off DVDs and Blu-rays and put them online.

There are infinite permutations of anime fan in this world, and making generalisations that disparage one group with respect to another will probably offend someone.

That said, I think it's fair to say that most of the people who buy anime on home media do so because it is dubbed. While most of the people who watch anime online (legitimately too through authorised streaming portals) are happy to watch anime sub only.

There is a crossover in this Venn diagram of people who watch online and who but hardcopy home media. It's my opinion that the online streaming is slowly making more inroads into convincing purchasers to try sub-only discs.

But unless Funimation is suing nu-ADV for not dubbing some of the titles they licence, this is drifting off topic, and into the dull, tiresome, ever regurgitated dub vs sub debate.

I only watch home media (excluding the odd episode online if I am unsure about buying a show) and I can't remember the last time I watched an anime dub (excluding watching it on TV like the Ghibli films over Christmas). The main priority for my anime (as with live action foereign language films) is the original language with subtitles.

When I buy an Akira Kurosawa or a Takeshi Kitano film the priority for me is Japanese language with English subtitles and anime is no different in that respect.

 

[Just Passing Through]

There are anime fans who buy DVDs and watch sub only, eschewing the dubs if available, not bothered if they aren't.

There are pirates that rip the English dub versions off DVDs and Blu-rays and put them online.

There are infinite permutations of anime fan in this world, and making generalisations that disparage one group with respect to another will probably offend someone.

That said, I think it's fair to say that most of the people who buy anime on home media do so because it is dubbed. While most of the people who watch anime online (legitimately too through authorised streaming portals) are happy to watch anime sub only.

There is a crossover in this Venn diagram of people who watch online and who but hardcopy home media. It's my opinion that the online streaming is slowly making more inroads into convincing purchasers to try sub-only discs.

But unless Funimation is suing nu-ADV for not dubbing some of the titles they licence, this is drifting off topic, and into the dull, tiresome, ever regurgitated dub vs sub debate.

I only watch home media (excluding the odd episode online if I am unsure about buying a show) and I can't remember the last time I watched an anime dub (excluding watching it on TV like the Ghibli films over Christmas). The main priority for my anime (as with live action foereign language films) is the original language with subtitles.

When I buy an Akira Kurosawa or a Takeshi Kitano film the priority for me is Japanese language with English subtitles and anime is no different in that respect.

I'm exactly the same. I only watch dubs if there are no alternatives, or with a very rare exception where I prefer the dub. That's one title... Steamboy. And Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex Volume 5, because Manga so ****ed up the subtitles that I can't watch it that way.

But I am willing to accept that I'm in a minority of fans who watch their discs in such a way.

 

[Mace20de]

I actually couldn't care less about the reading aspects. What gets me about alot of dubs is they're way too americanised in terms of accents, ........

Where is the problem with the americanised/eurpeanised accent, a lot of animes doesn't even have a Japanese setting, if the setting is some European style fantasy world, I expect them to speak everything, but Japanese.

Personally, I can't stand the sound of the Japanese language, that's why I don't like anime subs in general, but if necessary I watch them, too.

 

[mangaman74]

I actually couldn't care less about the reading aspects. What gets me about alot of dubs is they're way too americanised in terms of accents, ........

Where is the problem with the americanised/eurpeanised accent, a lot of animes doesn't even have a Japanese setting, if the setting is some European style fantasy world, I expect them to speak everything, but Japanese.

But the west is guilty of doing this as well. Take most war films - with the exception of Inglourious Basterds most films have the likes of Germans and French speaking English rather than have them speak their own language and have subtitles.

 

[Reaper gI]

I actually couldn't care less about the reading aspects. What gets me about alot of dubs is they're way too americanised in terms of accents, ........

Where is the problem with the americanised/eurpeanised accent, a lot of animes doesn't even have a Japanese setting, if the setting is some European style fantasy world, I expect them to speak everything, but Japanese.

Plenty of fantasy series set in historical Japan /China (or very similar) or that transport people from the "real world" (normally clearly Japan) into a fantasy.

There's a few shows where they clearly should speak another language though. e.g. FMA (German), Fairy Tail(English), Code Geass(English).

Very few anime are set in the USA (Precure), and most dubs are very, very American. Far worse than most Hollywood movies or import TV shows are.

 

[Mace20de]

I actually couldn't care less about the reading aspects. What gets me about alot of dubs is they're way too americanised in terms of accents, ........

Where is the problem with the americanised/eurpeanised accent, a lot of animes doesn't even have a Japanese setting, if the setting is some European style fantasy world, I expect them to speak everything, but Japanese.

But the west is guilty of doing this as well. Take most war films - with the exception of Inglourious Basterds most films have the likes of Germans and French speaking English rather than have them speak their own language and have subtitles.

True, that's my "most of the people don't want to read a movie"-point.

In case of "Japanese anime sub lovers" there are a lot, who carry the Japanese language on a gold platter and treat it like the pinnacle of human communication. This rarely happens in other movie genres, the people prefer to watch it in a language they understand.

 

[Reaper gI]

I actually couldn't care less about the reading aspects. What gets me about alot of dubs is they're way too americanised in terms of accents, ........

Where is the problem with the americanised/eurpeanised accent, a lot of animes doesn't even have a Japanese setting, if the setting is some European style fantasy world, I expect them to speak everything, but Japanese.

But the west is guilty of doing this as well. Take most war films - with the exception of Inglourious Basterds most films have the likes of Germans and French speaking English rather than have them speak their own language and have subtitles.

True, that's my "most of the people don't want to read a movie"-point.

In case of "Japanese anime sub lovers" there are a lot, who carry the Japanese language on a gold platter and treat it like the pinnacle of human communication, plus it shouldn't/can't be translated in anyway. This is rarely happens in other movie genres, the people prefer to watch it in a language they understand.

Nope subs are normal for foreign language films; especially Asian ones.
Dubs are almost exclusive to TV broadcasts, or for younger audiences.

They're a relic of trying to put stuff on TV and should have been largely stopped a while back.

 

[Just Passing Through]

I actually couldn't care less about the reading aspects. What gets me about alot of dubs is they're way too americanised in terms of accents, ........

Where is the problem with the americanised/eurpeanised accent, a lot of animes doesn't even have a Japanese setting, if the setting is some European style fantasy world, I expect them to speak everything, but Japanese.

But the west is guilty of doing this as well. Take most war films - with the exception of Inglourious Basterds most films have the likes of Germans and French speaking English rather than have them speak their own language and have subtitles.

True, that's my "most of the people don't want to read a movie"-point.

In case of "Japanese anime sub lovers" there are a lot, who carry the Japanese language on a gold platter and treat it like the pinnacle of human communication. This rarely happens in other movie genres, the people prefer to watch it in a language they understand.

On the contrary, I find that the acceptance of subtitled foreign films is practically universal, it's just this disposable medium of anime where fans insist on dubs, and on some of the old Hong Kong action flicks.

But I have Korean, Japanese, Cantonese, Mandarin, French, Danish, Russian, and several other foreign live action films. 90% of them are English subtitled only. Very few of them have English dubs.

Who here has watched the English dub version of Amelie?

 

[alexrose1uk]

I actually couldn't care less about the reading aspects. What gets me about alot of dubs is they're way too americanised in terms of accents, ........

Where is the problem with the americanised/eurpeanised accent, a lot of animes doesn't even have a Japanese setting, if the setting is some European style fantasy world, I expect them to speak everything, but Japanese.

Personally, I can't stand the sound of the Japanese language, that's why I don't like anime subs in general, but if necessary I watch them, too.

I really don't mind the sound of the japanese language, I find it far more listenable than say Chinese.

Generally I prefer to listen to the original medium dub, which extends to live action as well, I'd much rather watch the original Chinese, German, Swedish, Russian, Japanese etc dub than the english dub, so this is nothing unique for me to anime. It's not a sole case of US films having a dub either, Letters of Iwo Jima (directed by Clint Eastwood), defaults to Japanese language with subs, I can't even remember if there IS an English dub. Another big release, Last Samurai, although the primary characters speak english, there is again a lot of Japanese in the film from memory.

In fact it's more relevant with anime, as a character is more heavily portrayed by the vocal work than for live action; and generally, the original director and team make a better choice of the voices, than the small pool of american dub overs.

This is even more relevant when the US audio completely changes the 'feel' for a character, and that's what I really don't like.

On the contrary, dubs like Black Lagoon, which is not only really well done, but also suits the setting and characters, I actually prefer to the original dub.

 

[fabio de lunatico]

Who here has watched the English dub version of Amelie?

The reason live action dubs never caught on is because It's plainly obvious when a live action film is dubbed, and it's highly distracting. Show someone a dubbed episode of Stand Alone Complex without mentioning its country of origin, on the other hand, and they won't realise that English is not the original language.

English-speaking anime fans want and even expect dubs for that reason, and also because dubs have been an integral part of home video releases for as long as there have been home video releases. I view dubs as a desirable extra, one that I actually make use of, and thus to read that the two companies who produce the bulk of English language dubs are at each other's throats concerns me greatly.

 

[Mace20de]

In fact it's more relevant with anime, as a character is more heavily portrayed by the vocal work than for live action; and generally, the original director and team make a better choice of the voices, than the small pool of american dub overs.

I get your point, but if you don't speak the language of the original dub, you can hardly tell, that the original dub is better than the e.g. english dub, maybe it is even worse. However, under normal circumstances it should be better.

When it comes to Asian movies, they aren't popular enough to warrant a dub in most cases, at least in Germany. The movies which aired sub-only on German TV were "Der Wolf mit dem Kind / Kozure Ōkami" and some French movies, but the audience of those movies mostly speak French, therefore they don't need the subs.

 

[Joshawott]

When it comes to live-action movies, I watch the original language. As JPT commented; Amelie is a movie that I have to see in French - no alternatives. One of the reasons for that is though, as fabricatedlunatic pointed out, due to the way our mouth moves when we talk, it's blatantly obvious when something has been dubbed, so it's really hard to get the lip sync right which ends up being hilarious. With animation, lip syncing is much easier.

In terms of anime, it depends on the series with me. I love Cowboy Bebop dubbed, but I prefer Arrietty subbed. I prefer to have dubs available as it makes it easier when showing the series to someone else and sometimes, I may be not tired to the point where I can't watch something, but too tired to read subs xD

 

[mangaman74]

Who here has watched the English dub version of Amelie?

The reason live action dubs never caught on is because It's plainly obvious when a live action film is dubbed, and it's highly distracting. Show someone a dubbed episode of Stand Alone Complex without mentioning its country of origin, on the other hand, and they won't realise that English is not the original language.

English-speaking anime fans want and even expect dubs for that reason, and also because dubs have been an integral part of home video releases for as long as there have been home video releases. I view dubs as a desirable extra, one that I actually make use of, and thus to read that the two companies who produce the bulk of English language dubs are at each other's throats concerns me greatly.

Speak for yourself. I am not bothered whether a show gets dubbed or not as I'll watch the original language version anyway. I can understand when it's on TV or if it's a movie but dvd or blu-ray releases don't need to have dubs since it is a niche market.

 

[fabio de lunatico]

Er, I would have thought it obvious that I wasn't speaking for everyone. My response was to JPT's point that it's only anime fans who covet dubs.

 

[Just Passing Through]

In fact it's more relevant with anime, as a character is more heavily portrayed by the vocal work than for live action; and generally, the original director and team make a better choice of the voices, than the small pool of american dub overs.

I get your point, but if you don't speak the language of the original dub, you can hardly tell, that the original dub is better than the e.g. english dub, maybe it is even worse. However, under normal circumstances it should be better.

There is no better or worse when it comes to dubs or subs, or rather there rarely is. There really only is personal perception. You prefer dubs, fair enough. But if said dubs were quantitatively better than the original language, there would be Japanese fans who would insist on watching anime in the "original American" with Japanese subtitles because it was demonstrably better.

 

[alexrose1uk]

In fact it's more relevant with anime, as a character is more heavily portrayed by the vocal work than for live action; and generally, the original director and team make a better choice of the voices, than the small pool of american dub overs.

I get your point, but if you don't speak the language of the original dub, you can hardly tell, that the original dub is better than the e.g. english dub, maybe it is even worse. However, under normal circumstances it should be better.

Not 100% true. Whilst you can't understand the words, you can understand things like tone and emotion. Even if you can't follow the wording, you can tell when a voice actor is putting more expression into the voice.
To draw more extreme examples, you can tell if someone is happy, sad or angry from thier voice, even if you don't understand a word of the language, and it's quite possible to draw a much wider range than this.
It is these subtle changes that I tend to find the original asian dubs are often better for; the asian voice acting pool is much wider than the US pool which gives the director a lot more options in choicing an actor for a given role, even if certain voice actors like Rie Kugiyama and Yui Horie are more prevalant.

There are exceptions, and also bad dubs in every language, but as a trend...

 

[theirsbailiff]

Can we just go back on topic, please? All we seem to be doing now is go to the old cliche in Anime fandom and argue whether subs or dubs are better when we should be talking about the lawsuit.

 

[Mace20de]

In fact it's more relevant with anime, as a character is more heavily portrayed by the vocal work than for live action; and generally, the original director and team make a better choice of the voices, than the small pool of american dub overs.

I get your point, but if you don't speak the language of the original dub, you can hardly tell, that the original dub is better than the e.g. english dub, maybe it is even worse. However, under normal circumstances it should be better.

Not 100% true. Whilst you can't understand the words, you can understand things like tone and emotion. Even if you can't follow the wording, you can tell when a voice actor is putting more expression into the voice.
To draw more extreme examples, you can tell if someone is happy, sad or angry from thier voice, even if you don't understand a word of the language, and it's quite possible to draw a much wider range than this.

Sorry, in case of Japanese anime voices I can't, it is either a shrieking female or a deep growing male voice, that tortures my brain. Japanese cartoons, like all cartoons, transfer the emotions mostly via pictures, less by voice, but in case of anime if I only heard the Japanese voice I could hardly tell if the character is sad or angry.

@theirsbailiff

Right, sorry and these discussion normally lead nowhere.

 

[devilrules666]

Right so bad can this thing get? cos i just read about the lawsuit and i don't quite understand what this has to adv and sentai. Nor why funi is suing?

 

[alexrose1uk]

Sorry, in case of Japanese anime voices I can't, it is either a shrieking female or a deep growing male voice, that tortures my brain. Japanese cartoons, like all cartoons, transfer the emotions mostly via pictures, less by voice, but in case of anime if I only heard the Japanese voice I could hardly tell if the character is sad or angry.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this case then, as there can be quite a lot carried in tone and voice, but if you can't hear it then, well perhaps you never will and I can understand more why you don't get this.

At the end of the day though, 50% of everything is the sound, anime or no, it's why some people spend so much money on this aspect. Visuals are distinctly important for anime, but a well voice acted part can be far more engaging than one that's not, regardless of the language used.