French Ban Burqa.

Tachi

Tachi

Mushi-shi
France's lower house of parliament has overwhelmingly approved a bill that would ban wearing the Islamic full veil in public.


Thoughts and comments?

Personally, i agree with this, do away with segregation. Its not part of their religion, its a choice (well. some males make their women wear one so its not 100% choice)

But still. With italy and Germany thinking of passing the same laws. im hoping it happens across here too.

If i can't walk through immigration at the airport without taking my cap or hoody off and i'm a British born citizen. then people who are on visa's and the such shouldn't be allowed to wander the streets, covering their faces (they tell kids with hoodies to take their hoods down in shops)
 
Jaymii said:
First thing that springs to my uninformed mind: The UK is more multicultural than a lot of other places.
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Yeah, but if you get a EU Union involved with anything, they'll slaughter any company that is being even slightly discriminative, where-as across here. its pretty much the norm. So it swings in round-a-bouts.
 
Its a law i would like to see here in the UK aswell. If the French can do it and Germany and Italy are thinking about it, i dont see why the UK shouldnt think about it either.
 
Tachi- said:
If i can't walk through immigration at the airport without taking my cap or hoody off
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Most people of faith don't need to wear a bracelet or necklace as part of their faith; should we ban these too incase someone gets offended by them? If these people choose to wear a Burqa as part of their faith, why stop them? You're cap and hoody isn't really part of your faith, is it? I think it's stupid to ask you to take a cap off, more understandable with a hood (I.e. obscuring your face for no reason).

Tachi- said:
and i'm a British born citizen. then people who are on visa's and the such shouldn't be allowed to wander the streets, covering their faces (they tell kids with hoodies to take their hoods down in shops)
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Wooooooah; you aren't saying you therefore have more rights than those who move here from other countries are you? Considering they generally work more than "British born citizens" who just sit around moaning that there aren't jobs; there are, just British born citizens don't want to do them and feel 'above' them.

Also lets remember, all kids have to take their hoods off in shops; it's not just Caucasian people; not just Asian people, and not just Black people etc. -- it applies to everyone. You know, if you're British you can still be Muslim and wear a Burqa.
 
I can see a "5 second pose" come from this: "The Unveiling!" (I miss Edge/Christian....)

Well, if its something that balances the rights of everyone - I.e. permits to screen passengers at airports - then I agree with the new law in France. For many people in the UK, they come here out of choice and they therefore accept the terms given in law etc. If not, they have the choice of moving elsewhere.
So if one person has to be checked before boarding a plain, so much everyone else - without exception.

Otherwise, the system we have adopted into the west - democracy - will lose it's key ideal: The right to choose for the general consumption of the populous.

If i can't walk through immigration at the airport without taking my cap or hoody off


Most people of faith don't need to wear a bracelet or necklace as part of their faith; should we ban these too incase someone gets offended by them? If these people choose to wear a Burqa as part of their faith, why stop them? You're cap and hoody isn't really part of your faith, is it? I think it's stupid to ask you to take a cap off, more understandable with a hood (I.e. obscuring your face for no reason).
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So, if it's not important to their faith, then everyone should listen to the rules (in this case, for security), so they SHOULD NOT take offense. If the veil is a choice, then they should also forfeit it with the like of hoodies and caps. If the male has a problem, then dont stay. There's plenty of other countries to live in - I aint kicking you out, but if you stay, I sure am asking for you to be fair.
Tachi- wrote:
and i'm a British born citizen. then people who are on visa's and the such shouldn't be allowed to wander the streets, covering their faces (they tell kids with hoodies to take their hoods down in shops)


Wooooooah; you aren't saying you therefore have more rights than those who move here from other countries are you? Considering they generally work more than "British born citizens" who just sit around moaning that there aren't jobs; there are, just British born citizens don't want to do them and feel 'above' them.

Also lets remember, all kids have to take their hoods off in shops; it's not just Caucasian people; not just Asian people, and not just Black people etc. -- it applies to everyone. You know, if you're British you can still be Muslim and wear a Burqa.
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Point 1 - The "Born to working rights" ideal:
I see what you mean, and it's pointless for someone to move to the UK for employment and not be able to receive work on the same level as a British born citizen. The fear is that since we are growing as a populous, with the people that already live here + the hard times we live in, most "locals" fear that their job will be given to a "visitor." I have no problem myself in letting people come in and work, as long as they do it and they abide by law etc. But there should be a cap on how many we can give citizenship to or limit how many can enter in the 1st place. We're a small island, yet everyone wants to board it.

Point 2 - Burga is a right.. above everything else?
I aint going to question if you want to were a veil in public. People can do that for all I care, no matter if it's religious or not. You walk into a shop and get asked to take something off for one headgear, and then someone gets to walk in with no issue wearing other headgear, then there's a problem in equality there. It was a stupid rule in the 1st place - This isn't an argument against wearing the veil, my argument is with that rule as a whole.
 
Chaz said:
So, if it's not important to their faith
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There's a difference between it being important to someone, and it being compulsory. If wearing an item of clothing/an accessory makes one feel closer to their faith, and therefore happier/more secure, I see no reason to have them stop wearing it.
 
Shirayuri said:
Chaz said:
So, if it's not important to their faith
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There's a difference between it being important to someone, and it being compulsory. If wearing an item of clothing/an accessory makes one feel closer to their faith, and therefore happier/more secure, I see no reason to have them stop wearing it.
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So... You actually like being asked to take something off to get past airport security?
It is compulsory to make sure your face is recognizable for security, while in the UK. I may want to wear a large hat through the gates, but that aint gonna happen with the law, and if the law should upset one person like that, then why not the others? It's a negative spin on this argument, but why should one group FEEL better than the others if we all have to lose something for a short period of time?

If you can wear a veil, then I can wear a cap, goggles, cowboy hat, bandanna etc, and no-one should give a rat's.
 
Chaz said:
So... You actually like being asked to take something off to get past airport security?
It is compulsory to make sure your face is recognizable for security, while in the UK. I may want to wear a large hat through the gates, but that aint gonna happen with the law, and if the law should upset one person like that, then why not the others? It's a negative spin on this argument, but why should one group FEEL better than the others if we all have to lose something for a short period of time?

If you can wear a veil, then I can wear a cap, goggles, cowboy hat, bandanna etc, and no-one should give a rat's.
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but we're discussing in general, not just the airport, right?

The vast majority of time people wear Burqa's it's in the street (i.e. in public), not just in the airport lol.

Unless i've misinterpreted the French law here; I assumed it was on all times in public, not just the airport.
 
Shirayuri said:
[quote="Chaz"So... You actually like being asked to take something off to get past airport security?
It is compulsory to make sure your face is recognizable for security, while in the UK. I may want to wear a large hat through the gates, but that aint gonna happen with the law, and if the law should upset one person like that, then why not the others? It's a negative spin on this argument, but why should one group FEEL better than the others if we all have to lose something for a short period of time?

If you can wear a veil, then I can wear a cap, goggles, cowboy hat, bandanna etc, and no-one should give a rat's.
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but we're discussing in general, not just the airport, right?
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If it is a concern with in-general terms, yes. Like if the museum wants to adopt the airport security ideal, then everyone should do the same. You dont have to visit the museum, but if you want to, then abide by the law, like everyone else.

Let's go to that tyrannical ideal of saying "no matter where you are, you must have your head visible at all times." Then like anyone else, all headgear will therefore be useless and illegal. But if one group was to ask for immunity for any (and I mean ANY) reason, then that is breaking the ideal of the whole system, and heads should therefore roll.
 
I agree with Chaz on the idea that if such a law (no head-gear in public) comes in then no-one for any reason should be immune.

On the other hand, I personally think that people should fighting this idea and going further. Except in cases where security is paramount, people should be allowed to wear anything on their head. People need to have more freedom, not less, and that should apply to everyone.
 
Tachi- said:
Jaymii said:
First thing that springs to my uninformed mind: The UK is more multicultural than a lot of other places.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but if you get a EU Union involved with anything, they'll slaughter any company that is being even slightly discriminative, where-as across here. its pretty much the norm. So it swings in round-a-bouts.
Click to expand...

That or it's 'One rule for us, another for you.' Which makes you wonder how "Unity" is in this Union
 
Jaymii said:
First thing that springs to my uninformed mind: The UK is more multicultural than a lot of other places.
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Uniformed mind is right... the Muslim population in France far outstrips the UK, to the extent that France has been "hyped up" as likely to be the first Western country where Islam becomes the dominant religion. This is what has spurred the backlash, not some fear of a tiny group of people in one corner of Paris.
 
The law should be the same for all, and religion deserves no affect in the making of that law. If you cannot wear a balaclava in public, then so too should the burka be banned in public.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do", so too should those who choose to leave their cultural home to live in the UK adapt their own ways to fit our culture. I'm not saying immigrants should ditch their cultural heritage, but they should understand that some concessions have to be made by them, just as the UK has made some concessions for the immigrants. Such as paying them benefits, building places of worship for their religions using tax money, etc.



Furthermore, anything that regards a woman as being inferior to a man should be eradicated from the country, be it culture or religion, native or foreign.
 
Mutsumi said:
The law should be the same for all, and religion deserves no affect in the making of that law. If you cannot wear a balaclava in public, then so too should the burka be banned in public.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do", so too should those who choose to leave their cultural home to live in the UK adapt their own ways to fit our culture. I'm not saying immigrants should ditch their cultural heritage, but they should understand that some concessions have to be made by them, just as the UK has made some concessions for the immigrants. Such as paying them benefits, building places of worship for their religions using tax money, etc.



Furthermore, anything that regards a woman as being inferior to a man should be eradicated from the country, be it culture or religion, native or foreign.
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Agreed, just as we respect their culture, they should respect ours and abide by our rules just as we do in their homeland
 
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