Fansubs the death of anime

I

Is out of here

Great Teacher
Yes yes i know we have gone over this a 1000 times but here is a 50 min long video with people in the anime industery talking about it.

Early on in the video one of the panalists says that fansubs are not useful........ because of course he wants me to go out and spend £140 on 7 seprate dvds when they dont even advertise it themselves.............why the hell does he think i am buying black lagoon at the moment it sure aint been advertised.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/convent ... h-of-anime
 
To be honest I'd say most of Anime's popularity in the West today can be traced back to the influence of fansubs. Shows like Naruto and Bleach would never have gained the level of popularity they have now without them.

Admittedly it is a double edged sword though; while many fans who download first will track down R1/R2 releases of the shows as they become available many won't bother - favoring the free alternative. I can only guess whether the net effect of fansubs is positive or negative as a whole, since theres no way to be sure.
 
Well as you can see by my orignal post the net effect of fansubs on me has made me buy said anime..............do they think if i had not seen at least some of black lagoon i would go out and buy it?
 
You know somthing i would love to see fansubs just dissapear tommorow...........and then when no1 goes out and buys it because it hasnt been advertised or heard of it i will laugh at the distros.


Itls like thankyou very much fansubs for making shows popular and heard of now go away plz.........i think not.
 
id say 80% of anime i download i buy when its availabe/licenced or i get the money, on animes like gundam are just too expensive to buy especially at 12 vols
 
Argument for the ages....

I'm in total support behind Fansubs. Same reasons as already stated like.
I buy plenty of DVDs and it's all anime I've seen previously on fansubs. Very rare I'd buty a DVD that I've never seen before. That's usually because it crazy cheap and you think "why the hell not". I love quality over quantity too. I've seen alot of fansubs but lets be honest, their hardly good screening most of the time (picture quality wise). Plus you can take DVDs anywhere. My butt hurts when I sit in front of my pc too much.
:p
 
Always a tricky one but... I don't agree with fansubs of series which are comercially available with English subtitles.

I think it's fine to watch fansubs before a series is released (or if it never is) but if you don't buy the dvd's when it is released and keep the fansubs then you're a thief. If fansub groups are real fans and want to support the anime industry they would stop making them available for download once they were released.

I have bought lots of anime I had never watched before (and films) because I had read reviews first, or they were in a genre that I was interested in.
 
Maybe if they showed more anime on tv over here people wouldn't need to look for fansubs. If they think i'm gonna spend over a tenner on 4 episodes of a show i've never watched they've got another thing coming.
Saying that, i buy anime for a lot of the shows i've watched, shows that i wouldn't have bought without seeing them first. If anything fansubbing is a good thing because more people will want to buy anime if they've seen it and liked it
 
I never watch fansubs and I still buy new series. I must just be on a higher plane than most of the fanbase. =)
 
People in the west were watching anime long before you could easily download fansubs from the internet.

And there was a lot more anime on the TV prior to easily available fansubs.

Even when they try to show anime on TV these days it won't get people away from fansubs. They always come up with reasons why they don't want to watch anime on TV.

Fansubs are just too convinent, you get them for free, you don't have to wait for a UK licensor to license them, you don't have to wait for the next ep to be shown, you can watch them at your leasure.... How can TV and DVDs compete with that?
 
Hmm, the article's an interesting read, they brought up some good points at the panel.

Fansubs, eh...
If they continue being readily available I'll keep getting them and keep buying DVDs. If they become less available I'll probably end up buying less DVDs. Either way, que sera, sera...
 
Fansubs are here longer than the internet.... Previously they had those fanzines with long list of animes... You buy the VHS tapes and they would post the anime to you. That's how we used to do before the internet.
Yeah, life got a lot easier with the internet.
 
I'll stop fansubs the second I get a "Free" (Not conting TV licence/subscription) mannor of obtaining first view.

Buying blind leads you to buying utter crap and missing good stuff.
 
The Industry bods have a point, I know a hell of a lot of people who are sitting on stockpiles of thousands of anime series and refuse to go pay for a DVD. Normally these types justify this with "Anime is art, and art should be free", these are the people most likely to be damaging the industry.

I justify my use of fansubs with the following, I download, I watch once, and then I delete. If I REALLY like the show I buy it on DVD, and yes, I've spent one metric arseload on anime DVDs because of this. I'm one of the seven people who bought Crest of the Stars on UK DVD. Basically in this regard I use fansubs like time delayed television. I can watch them when I want, where I want, and then afterwards I can make the decision to buy or not which is a heck of a lot nicer prospect than simply walking into a shop, or going to Play and forking out £7-18 for a DVD of a show I've never seen just because it's anime.

I mean, come on, people, are we seriously expected to buy something blind just because it's anime? Let me sound this one out and you can tell me how ridiculous it sounds:

"Oh wow, a new film is out, and because it's a film made in America I must buy it now"

Which is effectively a variation of what you're saying every time you buy something blind. Sounds really stupid, huh? That's because it is.

Like I said, I can see the point of "The Industry" bemoaning fansubs for their bottom line losses over the last few years, but to them I say the following:

1. The people who download fansubs and don't buy either don't think the show is good enough to buy, or are too tight/"princpled" to buy a DVD anyway.

2. 75% of the anime you release is not on TV, isn't advertised, is expensive, has hard to find or just plain BAD video previews, and often has little to no information on the back of the box.

3. Sort your own house out, stop licencing everything that moves, and overreaching yourselves as companies (like ADV did with magazines, streaming video, TV channels, and a whole host of other bizarre ideas that got them into trouble), go back to only licencing stuff that will sell and you might find you have money left for a marketing budget that extends outside the convention circuit.

Well that's my mini-rant over.
 
ayase said:
Always a tricky one but... I don't agree with fansubs of series which are comercially available with English subtitles.

I think it's fine to watch fansubs before a series is released (or if it never is) but if you don't buy the dvd's when it is released and keep the fansubs then you're a thief. If fansub groups are real fans and want to support the anime industry they would stop making them available for download once they were released.

I have bought lots of anime I had never watched before (and films) because I had read reviews first, or they were in a genre that I was interested in.
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I am feeling what you are saying, pretty much around here myself.

I think more of an issue is the current opinion that people are entitled to everything (not just anime) and for free, if they don't want to pay for it. It really gets my back up when people use "I can't afford to buy it" as an excuse to basically steal things, do what I did as a kid save up or go without. Be a little more discerning with what you watch, checkout reviews (waiting for argument most reviews come from fansubs) ask friends. Most of these people that hoard downloads and fansubs just would never pay for anything if they could. Are the real fans those that have watched every series going or those that actually care about the industry and put some money back in so new projects can be made.

With anime there is the other issue of people that must be 'elite' must see the latest episodes of shows within days of it airing in Japan, so they can be the first up with their comments to prove they are more ‘otaku than thou’.
 
I think my comments here are going to be wishy-washy and sound controversial, so forgive me if I confuse you.
Dizzae said:
Maybe if they showed more anime on tv over here people wouldn't need to look for fansubs. If they think i'm gonna spend over a tenner on 4 episodes of a show i've never watched they've got another thing coming.
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Well, for the TV part, yeah, if there's anime to be shown, then show it. But with the difficulties of sustaining a channel for anime (like Anime Network and AC), we can only hope the future channels are run smoother or keep watching Fox Kids and other channels (like Scuzz).
As for hesitant buying of anime, sometimes you gotta take a step into the dark before you can experience anything new/fun. I did it with a few titles, like Tenjho Tenge (got 1st voume, and then got whole series.) And if it wasn't for buying Burn Up Excess at the first time I went to HMV to buy a DVD, then I would never have gotten this deep into anime (especially ecchi genre).
This only really refers to licenced and dubbed DVDs though, for availability and language reasons.

Dizzae said:
Saying that, i buy anime for a lot of the shows i've watched, shows that i wouldn't have bought without seeing them first. If anything fansubbing is a good thing because more people will want to buy anime if they've seen it and liked it
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Not trying to smack my own gob shut here, but I have to agree with you on the issue. If the anime is currently unavailable to buy in the western world, and we find it in a fansub, then of course people will be curious. And when that curiosity becomes enjoyment, you're going to want to watch it. But only watch the series if you're sure to buy it, otherwise it's just best to watch a couple of episodes on fansubs and forget it.

But you can never know if it'll be licensed all the time. Amaenaideyo is a series I've watched but hasn't been released. Western Fans of this would of watched it on fansubs, but haven't been able to buy it. I see that not being our fault though, so it would be our only way to watch and enjoy unreleased titles.

I would like to agree with Ayase. It is tricky, and if you have the intent of buying a series, then go for it. But when it's a foreign film/show and it comes out there before the 1st episode of it is licensed or dubbed, where would the line be drawn? Would keeping an unreleased title of a series still be "theft," or a fulfilled curiosity (to an extent)?
 
Conan-kun said:
I'll stop fansubs the second I get a "Free" (Not conting TV licence/subscription) mannor of obtaining first view.
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So why do you moan so loudly when they do actually show anime on TV? And when it comes to DVDs you spout clueless ravings about censorship.

Conan-kun said:
Buying blind leads you to buying utter crap and missing good stuff.
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Must be nice having such a risk free lifestyle ;) What happens when you need to cross a road? Do you have to wait for the police to close the road for you just incase a car gets within 50ft of you? ;)

I have to say from seeing your posts on various forums that you fall very much into the 'will never buy anime' category, there always seems to be some reason as to why you won't buy it.

The buying blind arguement is utter hogwash, you've got the entire internet at your fingertips and it can be used for more than just downloading fansubs and porn. Sites like animeonDVD, wikipedia, IMDB can all be used to find reviews and opinions on pretty much everything.

Do you download a film before going to see it at the cinema just to see if its worth the money? ;)

And sometimes you just have to take a risk in life :) If no-one took risks then we'd be in a very different place. If the anime producers never took risks then every anime would just be a copy of the last. How dull would that be!
 
Project-2501 said:
The buying blind arguement is utter hogwash, you've got the entire internet at your fingertips and it can be used for more than just downloading fansubs and porn. Sites like animeonDVD, wikipedia, IMDB can all be used to find reviews and opinions on pretty much everything.
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True, but it's not as if that's an efficient strategy since not everyone likes the same things, regardless of quality. Everyone raves about how good Elfen Lied and Haruhi Suzumiya are, but upon watching them, I wasn't that impressed. It's more about knowing what you like, rather than what other people like.
Project-2501 said:
Do you download a film before going to see it at the cinema just to see if its worth the money? ;)
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Watching a movie in a cinema is an entirely different matter. You're not paying for a physical product. Watching a movie in a cinema is more of a service. If you don't like a movie you just watched at the cinema, you just don't watch it ever again. No big deal. With DVDs, you're stuck with them unless you find a way to get rid of them. Factor in that DVDs cost more than the price of a cinema ticket and the risk level increases significantly.
Project-2501 said:
And sometimes you just have to take a risk in life :) If no-one took risks then we'd be in a very different place. If the anime producers never took risks then every anime would just be a copy of the last. How dull would that be!
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While it's true that people need to take risks, how do you expect people to tell the difference between the countless amount of anime available? Right now in Japan, the market is becoming less profitable and saturated due to creators not being able to make their anime stand out from countless others that are similar in nature. Even when they are different, chances are they won't achieve as high a success.
 
Regarding fansubs, I managed to go roughly a year without turning to them (I became an anime fan the start of 2007). But as the year passed I became more and more annoyed watching other people watching all these new great shows. Haruhi and lucky star was old news for them, it was unknown lands for me.

Eventually I broke when my University anime society showed four episodes of sayonara zetsubo sensei which I wanted to complete, and I discovered Rozen maiden wouldn't be coming on DVD.

Nowadays I'm more likely to import from the US then watch fansubs. I'm not trying to make an "excuse" but most of the fansubs I watch are shows not available in the UK, and often in the USA either.

However nowadays given my urge to buy anime, all I have to do is watch the opening and if I like it I end up buying a few volumes :lol:
 
Project-2501 said:
Conan-kun said:
I'll stop fansubs the second I get a "Free" (Not conting TV licence/subscription) mannor of obtaining first view.
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So why do you moan so loudly when they do actually show anime on TV? And when it comes to DVDs you spout clueless ravings about censorship
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hey, if you want DVDs to be double thier US costs with bits missing from them then that's your choice. I on the other have more sence than money.

As for TV airings, what TV airings? We have a POS channel that's run GITS and Cowboy Bebop to the ground (There's geting it on tv and then there's running thoguh it in a week like AC does) and the Same repeats of a version of Naruto that's so badly edited it might as well be another rerun of, say, Shuriken School.

The only thing anywhere near close to a decent TV airing of anything is Kix and even that's geting phased out for god knows what "True Entertainment" is (Though if any of the other "True" channels are any indication, it'll be an insult to the word "entertainment")
 
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