Fansub viewers all over the world targetted, by mistake

Paul

Paul

Ghost of Animes
Administrator
There <a href="http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-11-19/anime-torrent-users-reportedly-sent-notices-by-isps">was controversy</a> in the online anime community earlier this week after it had been revealed that Singaporean anime distributor ODEX and US copyright enforcers BayTSP were sending out legal notices to random anime fans found to be downloading fansubbed episodes of series like Ouran High School Host Club and Gundam 00. These notices were received by anime fans located in the US, Japan and France.

Days later, <a href="http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-11-21/baytsp-acknowledges-sending-warning-notices-by-mistakehttp://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-11-21/baytsp-acknowledges-sending-warning-notices-by-mistake">ODEX and BayTSP acknowledged</a> that they had made a mistake; they only intended to target downloaders in Singapore, but BayTSP incorrectly went ahead tracked down anime fans all over the world anyway. Presumably, all legal action against the accused people has been dropped.
 
LOL what more can I say really... Companies will never be able to stop fansubs simply becuase while theres new anime comming out of Japan, people will want to see it and whatever means work >_>
 
Well, there should be a way to stop illegal fansubbing. Once anime companies subtitle their latest eps and sell them online, I hope the people that continue to illegally download anime are prosecuted.
 
CitizenGeek said:
Well, there should be a way to stop illegal fansubbing. Once anime companies subtitle their latest eps and sell them online, I hope the people that continue to illegally download anime are prosecuted.
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That's never going to happen. As long as there is a way to get something for free, people will do it.
 
Yea, it'll still go on no matter what people do, until the government finds a way to track all the downloads and discover their identities. I've never been into downloading anime, I just get it when it arrives in the UK rather than going through the trouble to find it online.

Espy said:
if you destroy the internet. Then the world will be a better place.
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I disagree, as much as the internet can be dangerous and unpleasent it is also immensely useful in allowing the formation of 'cult' groups despite the distances between the members and being a medium for the spread of information that governments and other official bodies don't want people to know.

The Internet is the embodiment of freedom, and comes with the good and bad effects of this.
 
melonpan said:
That's never going to happen. As long as there is a way to get something for free, people will do it.
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Yes, I know people will continue to steal anime, even when it's available legally. However, I totally agree that these people should be prosecuted, named and fined.
 
Surely a more effective way of stopping fansubs would be to prosecute the distributors though? If they can track down the people downloading, then they must be able to find the subbers releasing.

If they stop the subbers then they kill the root. It happened with death-note, because they threatened everyone distributing, it became almost completely unavailable.

Randomly targeting people sounds like a vague and ineffective measure against piracy :(
 
Wildcard said:
Surely a more effective way of stopping fansubs would be to prosecute the distributors though? If they can track down the people downloading, then they must be able to find the subbers releasing.

If they stop the subbers then they kill the root. It happened with death-note, because they threatened everyone distributing, it became almost completely unavailable.

Randomly targeting people sounds like a vague and ineffective measure against piracy :(
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The problem is where the fansubbers are based in relation to the persuing law-enforcement agencies and whether the fansub group is masking their true location. It is also highly probable that fansub groups (specifically those who ignore cease and desist orders) also use proxies and related tools to obfuscate their true location. Many fansub groups abide by cease and desist orders if they are asked to do so and all parties would prefer that to a lengthy and potentially costly court case.
 
Wildcard said:
If they stop the subbers then they kill the root. It happened with death-note, because they threatened everyone distributing, it became almost completely unavailable.
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Actually, the opposite happened. A number of 'one-off' groups came together to sub the last episode. The names of the fansub groups tells you an awful lot as to what kind of a situation this is, and probably is the evidence as to why this hasn't happened to a lot of other massively popular anime, such as Naruto and Bleach.

The fansub group names were: "Ruberia" (no idea what that means)
"Cease and Desist", with their comment on AniDB says "Cease and Desist this!"
"Quick 'n' Dirty Subs"
"n00b"
and, "WWAHFDNTVFUAUAWGR", their comment on AniDB explains: "The name "We Were All Happy Fansubbing Death Note Then Viz ****** Us All Up And We Got Revenge" speaks for itself. We`re a group made up of people mostly from other Death Note groups, who made a group to finish it up."

Speaks for itself, doesn't it?
 
I know y'all know this but. . .
Its not just anime that people download, But many thousands of people rush to the computers to download the latest music, the latest serial drama etc. Although, All I see that gets mentioned in arguments like this is anime and fansubbing.

The internets is the source for everything, Be it English or Japanese. :eek:
 
melonpan said:
Wildcard said:
If they stop the subbers then they kill the root. It happened with death-note, because they threatened everyone distributing, it became almost completely unavailable.
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Actually, the opposite happened. A number of 'one-off' groups came together to sub the last episode. The names of the fansub groups tells you an awful lot as to what kind of a situation this is, and probably is the evidence as to why this hasn't happened to a lot of other massively popular anime, such as Naruto and Bleach.

The fansub group names were: "Ruberia" (no idea what that means)
"Cease and Desist", with their comment on AniDB says "Cease and Desist this!"
"Quick 'n' Dirty Subs"
"n00b"
and, "WWAHFDNTVFUAUAWGR", their comment on AniDB explains: "The name "We Were All Happy Fansubbing Death Note Then Viz ****** Us All Up And We Got Revenge" speaks for itself. We`re a group made up of people mostly from other Death Note groups, who made a group to finish it up."

Speaks for itself, doesn't it?
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Yeah, I guess so. Didn't know about the other Death-note subbing groups. However, I still think it makes more sense than targeting downloaders. By targeting them, it's virtually impossible to stop all of them, there will always be many who continue and are never stopped. While fansub groups can be reformed under new names, it's safe to say there are a many less than the number of fans.

To be honest, I don't think it would completely work either way. To stop fansubbing, there would have to be severely drastic measures enforced.
 
Jayme said:
I know y'all know this but. . .
Its not just anime that people download, But many thousands of people rush to the computers to download the latest music, the latest serial drama etc. Although, All I see that gets mentioned in arguments like this is anime and fansubbing.

The internets is the source for everything, Be it English or Japanese. :eek:
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The reason that fansubs get the most mention here is because this is an anime site. Music and TV downloading get mentioned much more in general news and most of the world is blissfully unaware of fansubbing or even know what it means.
 
CitizenGeek said:
melonpan said:
That's never going to happen. As long as there is a way to get something for free, people will do it.
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Yes, I know people will continue to steal anime, even when it's available legally. However, I totally agree that these people should be prosecuted, named and fined.
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I don't really care... As long as I buy them in the UK (or import it from the USA), then I will continue to watch fansubs. That way, I ain't screwing them over...

I do like Eureka Seven, but i haven't watched a lot of that... Why? Because I am unsure on whether I buy the DVD or not.

In the end, if I watch a fansub episode and I don't like it... I don't carry on with it.

If I do love that anime and want to find the DVDs, I watch it til the end... or if I had enough money, I'll buy the DVDs.

As you can see, I don't get a lot of money and I'm still looking for a part time job (which is really hard, considering I'm 16 and in year 11), so you got to understand the people who can't buy their anime DVDs every week because of their earnings.

So as long as I watch the fansub, proving I'll buy the DVDs for them... They can send warnings for all I care.
 
Chrono Mizaki said:
As you can see, I don't get a lot of money and I'm still looking for a part time job (which is really hard, considering I'm 16 and in year 11), so you got to understand the people who can't buy their anime DVDs every week because of their earnings.
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This argument is used every time :roll:

Just because you can't afford anime on DVD, that doesn't mean you are entitled to it for free.
 
Indeed. I'll copy/paste something that I said in the other fansub thread:

Remember that anime is not a right, it is a priviledge. A consumer good. It is a product to be paid for, be that through DVD sales, TV advertising revenue, merchandising, or other means. Nothing in this world is truely free, and even taking what looks like a free 'fansub' has a cost, only this time the price may just be more than you bargained for....
 
Fudce said:
Remember that anime is not a right, it is a priviledge. A consumer good. It is a product to be paid for, be that through DVD sales, TV advertising revenue, merchandising, or other means. Nothing in this world is truely free, and even taking what looks like a free 'fansub' has a cost, only this time the price may just be more than you bargained for....
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Well said, Fudce!

The 'price' for illegal fansubs doesn't immediately affect anyone, so most people seem to think it's okay. In fact, most anime fans seem to be annoyed at the notion that their illegal downloading is having a negative effect on the anime industry. I don't understand this attitude - of course it's the fansubbers, and especially, the people that create that demand who are to blame. Sure, companies could do a better job of preventing fansubs, or of providing a good alternative, but (like Fudce said) anime is not a right, it's a privilege, and not having any easier means of acquiring it is not and never will be justification.
 
Mind if I run one of the more bemusing things I've learned about how fansub is damaging the anime market?
It's a conclusion I've come to after talking with many people in the business, and that's that one of the more damaging aspects of fansub surprisingly is choice.

The western anime market used to be that the distro's could make a fairly good guess on what one or two new series from Japan would really sell well, and the western fans would lap it all up because it was always so hard to get anime.

Nowadays though almost every anime series aired on Japanese TV (excluding a lot of the kiddy stuff) is fansubbed, and we in the west have started to get picky!
The distro's really do have a hard job nowadays, as it's becoming almost impossible to find that "sure sell" anime. We as the consumer now have the ability to proof the entire market beforehand, and since the distro's can only afford to licence a handful of series a year it's becoming near impossible to find any series that will make back its licence costs.
I just find it kinda ironic that a niche market is being killed off by an excess of choice.
Anyones thoughts on this hypothesis?
 
CitizenGeek said:
Fudce said:
Remember that anime is not a right, it is a priviledge. A consumer good. It is a product to be paid for, be that through DVD sales, TV advertising revenue, merchandising, or other means. Nothing in this world is truely free, and even taking what looks like a free 'fansub' has a cost, only this time the price may just be more than you bargained for....
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Well said, Fudce!

The 'price' for illegal fansubs doesn't immediately affect anyone, so most people seem to think it's okay. In fact, most anime fans seem to be annoyed at the notion that their illegal downloading is having a negative effect on the anime industry. I don't understand this attitude - of course it's the fansubbers, and especially, the people that create that demand who are to blame. Sure, companies could do a better job of preventing fansubs, or of providing a good alternative, but (like Fudce said) anime is not a right, it's a privilege, and not having any easier means of acquiring it is not and never will be justification.
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And to expand on what I said, I am not telling anybody not to download. I just ask that if you watch something on download, buy the DVDs. I download myself, but for every one episode I download, I commit to buying the DVD that contains that episode as soon as it's released.
 
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