Classic Anime on Blu Ray

L

LukasROAR

Straw Hat Pirate
I need some tech advice on Blu Ray anime purchases.

I’m a huge Cowboy Bebop fan and after all these years someone behind the scenes has finally seen fit to release the original series in Blu Ray in the UK.

At first I was ecstatic with the news, I’ve been waiting years for this moment but then I remembered another Watanabe Blu Ray purchase that didn’t turn out so well.

The other year I received Samurai Champloo on Blu Ray as a Christmas present, I was thrilled as I didn’t think you could get it in the UK (turned out to be region free import) and I was desperate for Watanabe in glorious HD.

Yet when I played the series the quality was subpar, I know the series was drawn and created before high def was in wide circulation and definitely before Blu Ray was invented but the colours was incredibly dull and the general transfer was poor. I have a modern HD Samsung TV and Blu Ray player hooked up correctly and have never had any other quality issues with Blu Ray.

I was real grateful to receive Champloo but just a little disappointed to say it was supposed to be top quality picture, my question to anyone in the know would be, should I expect Bebop to look the same? It was created in 1998 and is beginning to look a little dated. Does converting old anime to Blu Ray always look relatively poor?

I know this isn’t the case in live action as the Blu Ray Blade Runner Final Cut looks out of this world and that was made in the 80’s so is it all down to the conversion process or how much money is put in to remastering the original?

Has anyone else been disappointed with pre HD Blu Ray purchases?

If anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated and could save me a few quid as the price is a little steep for 1-12 episodes. Kids On the Slope was £5 cheaper for the full series.

Thanks in advance, sorry for the essay length post.
 
Cowboy Bebop will be fine, as that is pre-digipaint anime. It was made on film. You only have to make allowances for shows post 2000 or so, that were animated on computer instead of film, and then made directly for 480 line resolution. Even then you should get better than DVD results, with better colour definition, 24 frame progressive playback, and next to zero compression, as well as lossless audio. Most anime in the last five or six years has been animated for HD resolutions, so that will look great in HD anyway. It all depends on how the transfer is accomplished.

Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood is animated at 540 lines, and that is less resolution than native PAL which is 576i, but I've recently been watching the Blu-rays of that and it looks amazing, even though it's a comparative upscale. The best way is to just try it and see.

The real question is which Champloo did you get? The first Blu-ray release had a crappy transfer with DNR taken to such extremes that it killed the detail. Funimation then re -authored it and re-released it, and this second transfer was considered of such quality that the Japanese have used it for their domestic Blu-ray release of Champloo. You'll know if you have the second release if it has Anime Classics on the packaging.
 
Thanks ever so much for the above, it really is appreciated and has definitely cleared a lot up for me that i've been confused about for many a year.

I'm not 100% sure which release of Champloo it is, I'll check when I get home from work tonight.

Looks like i'll be pre-ordering Bebop on blu come payday :)

Thanks again.
 
EDIT: Dammit! You beat me to it Just Passing Through, with a more concise and to-the-point post as well! :p

Samurai Champloo came from that weird early digital animation period in the early 00s. The animation wasn't produced in high-definition and I believe Funimation Blu-rays are upscales. If I remember correctly, their initial release was pretty poor and they actually did a re-release with a much better upscale done that had much improved picture quality. I think this is the original and this is the re-release, so depending on which one you have that may explain it.

Cowboy Bebop is a bit more complicated, but should look a lot better. This is mostly off the top of my head so please correct me if there's anything I've got wrong, but this is the situation as I understand it.

Bebop was produced on film, which has an inherently high resolution anyway. I think standard 35mm film is somewhere around 3k, though this depends on how its printed, the aspect ratio etc. That should mean it will look amazing on Blu-ray if it's transferred with care, and the screenshots show that it is indeed the case.

The slight complication which is my only remaining concern is due to the picture format. The Japanese Blu-rays are 1080i due to reasons I'm not sure about. Maybe the ending animations were animated in that way, or the special effects were produced like that? Who knows. Anyway, here in the UK, if a Blu-ray is released interlaced at 1080i, it will almost without fail be at 1080i50, rather than 1080i60 as I presume the JP BDs are, and most American 1080i BDs are. I am not sure why 1080i60 BDs aren't released here, but perhaps it's something to do with the PAL legacy and maximising TV compatibility. In any case, that means we'd have to be dealing with that dreaded 4% speedup that has always affected PAL DVDs in order for the frame rates to match. Unless Anime Limited have pitch corrected the audio, everything will sound an octave higher, which will really bug me! We shall just have to wait and see I guess.

But the actual video itself will look terrific, you don't need to worry about that!
 
Ath said:
The slight complication which is my only remaining concern is due to the picture format. The Japanese Blu-rays are 1080i due to reasons I'm not sure about. Maybe the ending animations were animated in that way, or the special effects were produced like that? Who knows. Anyway, here in the UK, if a Blu-ray is released interlaced at 1080i, it will almost without fail be at 1080i50, rather than 1080i60 as I presume the JP BDs are, and most American 1080i BDs are. I am not sure why 1080i60 BDs aren't released here, but perhaps it's something to do with the PAL legacy and maximising TV compatibility. In any case, that means we'd have to be dealing with that dreaded 4% speedup that has always affected PAL DVDs in order for the frame rates to match. Unless Anime Limited have pitch corrected the audio, everything will sound an octave higher, which will really bug me! We shall just have to wait and see I guess.

But the actual video itself will look terrific, you don't need to worry about that!
Click to expand...

There are 1080i 60Hz BDs released in the UK (Just reviewing Andromeda BD in that format), the playback format in no longer restricted by the display device. If it's 60Hz in Japan it ought to be 60Hz in the UK to, if it is interlaced. It might be. I think there will be a drop in quality when it comes to the CGI in Bebop, as I think that was finished at a lower resolution than the film elements. The only interlaced anime that I have seen in BD in the UK has been from Europe, and well, Khazi! They'll always find a novel way to screw up a release.

It also depends on how the Blu-ray is sourced. A lot of Funimation's early format cash-in were remastering SD anime onto BD, and for that they used the DVD masters as source material. Obviously there is less compression and better definition on the master tapes, but it is still intended for an SD format, so you won't see as much improvement. Then there is the DNR filtering which can make things look worse than an upscaled DVD.

Then for some anime, the Japanese companies actually went to the source material to create the Blu-rays instead of the DVD masters, and even for digipaint shows at SD resolution, this gives amazing results. One of Khazi's few triumphs is Black Lagoon, as its Blu-ray was created from the source material. The same thing happened for Serial Experiments Lain, which even had new animation done. It's a case by case basis.
 
Thanks again, Ath & Just Passing Through

It’s the re-release I have, I recognised the box art.

I was still a little disappointed with the transfer even though I have the improved version. It honestly just looks like an upscale and I was so disappointed especially when expecting high res, it’s a real shame that’s how they were animated during that period in the 00’s.

I’m now really looking forward to a high definition Bebop, I just hope they follow suit with the film ‘Knocking On Heavens Door’ as the US have had that for quite some time.
I tried to get that on import but several sites advised me it was region locked and as far as I know unlocking blu ray’s is a lot more complicated than DVD players where you just type some codes in with the disc tray open.

I bet the movie looks fantastic.

Thanks again for all the really helpful responses everyone :)
 
Yeah, looking at everything case-by-case is the best way to do it. Knowing that 1080i60 BDs are being released in the UK gives me hope that it will be the case here with Bebop.

Agreed that sourcing and treatment are absolutely key to Blu-ray. Excessive DNR is an abomination toward mankind, just look at poor Ah-nuld's face in the Predator Ultimate Hunter Blu-ray :p
 
SamCham is 100% an upscale.
The Japanese used FUNimations second upscale on their own BDs. Not that this is necessarily a glowing recommendation given what some of their own upscales like Haibane have been like...

Ath said:
The slight complication which is my only remaining concern is due to the picture format. The Japanese Blu-rays are 1080i due to reasons I'm not sure about. Maybe the ending animations were animated in that way, or the special effects were produced like that? Who knows.
Click to expand...
Maybe because of the digital elements?
 
The most horrific upscale I've seen so far has to be Shakugan no Shana season 1 and 2. It was so bad that when I bought FUNimation's DVD-BD combo pack releases, I watched the DVDs.
 
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