Can anyone explain the blu-ray prices in Japan?

Rui said:
chaos said:
Rui said:
Sites like Viki which stream classic anime legitimately (usually worldwide) have a lot of potential for fans cut off from the source by geography or (in this case) time.
Oh! Do tell more....

Haha it's like we're a double act staging an advertisement (unintentionally!).
Loved the idea and yep, I think I should talk to them as well!

MikeP said:
I had previously looked into the prices myself and worked out some estimated income/profit for Japanese companies for UK and JP releases.
Note these are very rough estimates based on what little I know of business but I have taken into account printing costs, retailer margins, VAT and UK distributor costs.

A 13 episode box set retailing on Amazon for £15 probably generates no more than £3, or 25p an episode, for the Japanese companies.
A 2 episode volume retailing on Amazon JP for ~£50 probably generates about £15 of profit*, or £7.50 an episode.

When online estimates seem to place production costs between £80k and £200k an episode. It becomes relatively easy to see why the Japanese price things as they do. Finding 300,000 people to buy your niche product is a lot harder than finding 10,000.

*Not actually profit but income after manufacturing costs but before production.
I've got some interesting interview with Fukashi Azuma, who is the producer of things like Naruto, Bleach, Gintama, Azumanga Daioh, Elemental Gelade and some 80 tittles.... I'll we are in getting the lat details straight and will publish it ASAP.

Shiroi Hane said:
I can't remember where I found it, but here is a document that breaks down some of the costs for Bamboo Blade:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/F ... Jy0liipFm0
Can't really make sense out of it, unfortunately. Mind If I ask you to translate the gist of it?
 
I still don't understand how things like this work. That's far cheaper than even the US DVDs that I collected years ago. France has a much smaller population and Patlabor isn't exactly the most popular show out there. We have some idea of how the US, UK and Japanese markets work... How does the French market work? Is every other person an anime fan willing to spend money on DVDs?
 
Ayase: That particular one is dub-only (in French), which explains the mass market bargain bin pricing tier. In general though I am with you, French releases are in the same price ballpark with a heck of a lot more flexibility in content and genre than the average UK set.

It is weird how population of a country seems to have little correlation with its actual viability as a market. France completely smoke us, obviously, but so does Australia. It's downright embarrassing relying on materials from a country with such a small population compared to ours, and I bet their niche sub-only sets sell more than our tragic double/triple figures a lot of the time too.

R
 
Aha, Didn't spot that. I do look forward to my sister going back to Australia so that I can get her to send me DVDs with the value marked down...

That's actually far weirder than France, as the different culture and very healthy French comic / graphic novel industry there can perhaps explain some of that difference away - But Australia? How on Earth is their market so different from ours?
 
MikeP - http://www.animeuknews.net/article/...-knight-gintama-azumanga-daioh-have-in-common

It's worth for everyone interested in how the anime market works.

ayase said:
I still don't understand how things like this work. That's far cheaper than even the US DVDs that I collected years ago. France has a much smaller population and Patlabor isn't exactly the most popular show out there. We have some idea of how the US, UK and Japanese markets work... How does the French market work? Is every other person an anime fan willing to spend money on DVDs?
Simply put, it was on national TV: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patlabor_(série_d%27animation)

Every "cartoon" needs dubbing to be shown in TV in France, considering they have a very small output. So, if you're going to dub does it matter if it's from English or Japanese? Same for Italy and Germany. So anime gets a lot more exposition there than it gets here, and more likely it made the license money back with advertisers on the TV run. The DVD's / BD's release work the same way as TV shows releases work, it's just extra money.

Rui said:
It is weird how population of a country seems to have little correlation with its actual viability as a market. France completely smoke us, obviously, but so does Australia. It's downright embarrassing relying on materials from a country with such a small population compared to ours, and I bet their niche sub-only sets sell more than our tragic double/triple figures a lot of the time too.
I've ordered the FMA:B BD's that were not released in the UK. The UK release of FMA:B volume 1 costs here 10 quid. In Australia it costs 50 quid. If they are willing to pay 50 quid and we are only willing to pay 10 quid, then they need 5x less copies sold to make it viable.

ayase said:
Aha, Didn't spot that. I do look forward to my sister going back to Australia so that I can get her to send me DVDs with the value marked down...
Does it work? I find Australian releases more expensive than ours. They are only cheaper than Japanese ones.... And because of this, they do get stuff that no one else gets, such as Higurashi S2.

ayase said:
That's actually far weirder than France, as the different culture and very healthy French comic / graphic novel industry there can perhaps explain some of that difference away - But Australia? How on Earth is their market so different from ours?
I can only think that a lot gets back imported into Japan....

Also, check this out: http://www.animenewsnetwork.co.uk/news/ ... -by-france

When is the queen going to knight manga / anime creators?
 
I can guarantee that Japan doesn't generally want Australia's region B-locked BDs or awful-looking PAL-converted R4 DVDs :s

There are some people who import Oz releases (like us) but we'd be buying the same things locally if our market wasn't a mess.

I don't find Australian stuff terrifically expensive. It doesn't have as many distributors and doesn't slash prices as ridiculously as things such as S.A.V.E. or Manga UK's constant firesales on anything that was released more than a week ago, but new releases are comparably priced to the US all things considered.

R
 
Rui said:
I can guarantee that Japan doesn't generally want Australia's region B-locked BDs or awful-looking PAL-converted R4 DVDs :s

There are some people who import Oz releases (like us) but we'd be buying the same things locally if our market wasn't a mess.

I don't find Australian stuff terrifically expensive. It doesn't have as many distributors and doesn't slash prices as ridiculously as things such as S.A.V.E. or Manga UK's constant firesales on anything that was released more than a week ago, but new releases are comparably priced to the US all things considered.

R
Rui - there has been an episode of a Japanese blogger mentioning the UK R2 release of an anime that will remain unnamed here and comparing to the Japanese price. There was an unusual surge on orders which made the UK company go investigate what was the problem and then, they realise it was thousands of orders coming from Japan....

Let's say that Shining Moe Waifu Chan Z is a series I'd be interested in watching, but not so interested to buy it for 500 quid, so I'd gladly take the Pal-converted DVD. So, it's not to be ruled out.

Also, I'm not saying they are terrifically expensive, what I'm saying is that they are sold closer to the RRP we have around here AND they stay there!
 
I have heard Mr Clements' anecdote before, but as a person who buys globally myself I can say that if there's a choice between a relatively obscure, region locked, probably gimped UK/Australian release or a US version which is superior in every way, easier to buy through more channels and easier to play to boot, they'll take that. DVD is on the way out for otaku, and BD has put them in the same region as the easiest country on earth to import from.

If there's a UK/Oz release which is actually superior to a Japanese one in some way, it is possible, but nowadays with Beez gone all our industry does is repackage versions from other regions. Regions which already price lower and release faster than we do. I suppose the only one which might be desirable to Japanese fans is our stripped down barebones Madoka Magica set simply because they can buy it for pretty much nothing even though its arbitrarily been region locked, but it's not even desirable to me ^^; they could just have recorded it from TV if they've held out this long to save a few thousand yen over buying from the US*.

R

* I know it's been blocked for export but as that hasn't stopped me owning the entire set it sure won't stop a determined Japanese Madoka Magica collector.
 
Aha, you even know where the story comes from =)

I think that the mistake here is considering what fans would do. Fans would want the nicest, most complete, shiniest they can get.
Being the massive fan of Ghost in the Shell that I am, I'm still considering giving that US$10k just to go and meet Oshii....

In any case, you are not the norm. For all that matters, most people here can be considered unusual as well. If I got my facts right, less than 10% of all retail shopping is done online in the USA and slightly more than half had bought something online last year.

According to the Guardian the UK is slightly more, 12%. I've no idea about numbers though; http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/ja ... s-hit-50bn

And while I agree that most anime fans in Japan are internet savvy, I still doubt that they venture in foreign websites.

Their "fear of foreigners" is not made fun on anime just for the sake of it....
 
chaos said:
ayase said:
I still don't understand how things like this work. That's far cheaper than even the US DVDs that I collected years ago. France has a much smaller population and Patlabor isn't exactly the most popular show out there. We have some idea of how the US, UK and Japanese markets work... How does the French market work? Is every other person an anime fan willing to spend money on DVDs?
Simply put, it was on national TV: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patlabor_(série_d%27animation)

Every "cartoon" needs dubbing to be shown in TV in France, considering they have a very small output. So, if you're going to dub does it matter if it's from English or Japanese? Same for Italy and Germany. So anime gets a lot more exposition there than it gets here, and more likely it made the license money back with advertisers on the TV run. The DVD's / BD's release work the same way as TV shows releases work, it's just extra money.

Hmm, that's a good point about them needing to dub.

Effectively for our TV we have a huge pool of US shows for them to readily import, while the French must select something to dub, allowing them much greater freedom of choice.

Not to mention they have things like Ulysses 31/Cities of Gold in the past and a general dislike of the US from what I can tell which probably influences their choices.
 
Personally, as an anime fan, I will weigh up the costs and benefits of buying a foreign release over a UK one on a per series basis. Some of the more important things I consider are how much I actually liked the series, the release date, price and what I actually get. This is probably going to be a boring wall of text to all of you, but:

For example, K-ON!! came out in America recently and the blu-rays were about £40 a pop each from UP1. K-ON! was DVD-only here and the sales didn't make the planned blu-ray boxset viable (and hell, I wonder if even licensing season 2 is viable?). So I purchased Sentai's blu-rays.

A Certain Magical Index is due out in America in December as DVD only. It will cost just over £60 to get both volumes from UP1 and being a limited edition, volume 1 will probably come in a fancy box. However, as MangaUK have expressed to me on Twitter that they would like to see if they could license the series, considering that it's DVD only in America, I'm holding back to see if MangaUK do announce it somewhere in the near future. Not willing to pay that much for a DVD.

Then we have Mardock Scramble: The First Compression. It was only released in the UK a month after the US release and was really competitively priced. I preferred Kazé's cover art and the few quid saving (iirc, it was less than £5, as PlanetAxel were still alive then), so I purchased Kazé's release. I just hope they can get The Second Combustion released close to the American January release, as I would prefer my releases to match.

With Blue Exorcist, I enjoyed the show, but didn't think it was great (and I hate the ending). I couldn't justify spending £120 (4x £30 volumes) for a sub-only DVD release, so I waited out on MangaUK's version. However, they cocked up the subtitles on volume 1, so I still haven't bought it (I would have otherwise). I'll probably wait for a MangaUK boxset with the English dub or something now. Durarara is in a similar boat; I liked the series, but I didn't buy Beez's sub-only release because at the time I could just watch it on Crunchyroll and I hear their subs had some issues. I have looked at the cool blu-ray release America is getting soon, but I think that's too expensive for me for a show that I merely thought was "good".

Puella Magi Madoka Magica on the other hand, is a show that I adore - I will easily rate it as my favourite TV show of all time. At the time of the US releases, we didn't even know if MangaUK would release the series on blu-ray (and Madoka looks amazing on blu-ray. The extras for AniplexUSA's Limited Edition releases made it more than worth it though - an average of 2 posters, a soundtrack CD, art cards and a booklet. Each volume ended up costing me around £70 each. I do not regret paying that much for the series and until HMV cocked up my order, I was going to buy the UK release too (instead, I cancelled and ordered a Kyoko figma).

Then we have Tiger & Bunny. I did look into importing the Japanese blu-rays, due to them having English subtitles. Hell no - too expensive. Then Viz Media announce a 19th February release date for the first 13 episodes; but they will most likely be just two discs in a standard amaray. Then we have KazéUK, who have included the Monthly Hero booklets with their planned 4-part release and the French ones look a hell of a lot nicer, so if the UK ones are like that, I'm definitely waiting out for KazéUK's release.

And lastly we have Shakugan no Shana Second. Now, America is getting this show on blu-ray - but frankly, the blu-rays look horrible. MVM have licensed this series, with the first part being due out in March (iirc) - the entire season is out in America in December. Also, RightStuf are offering an as-of-yet-unannounced free gift (although it's probably something small, the mystery gift is appealing). Also, no offence to MVM, but I'm generally not a fan of their front covers. Although they haven't released any mock-ups for Shana II yet, I really like the boxart of FUNimation's latest Shana releases. Also, FUNimation have the movie and Shakugan no Shana S coming out in January (which MVM have yet to announce a license for) and I would prefer my releases to match, so I'll be buying that show from America, even though it will cost me more.

So really, for me it's not about how much something costs, but it's about whether what I'm getting for that amount of money is worth it to me. AniplexUSA's pricing does make me think more carefully about buying and does rule out any blind buys (The Bakemonogatari set looks absolutely amazing, but I haven't seen the show, so I won't get it). I found their pricing for the Madoka Magica limited editions to be reasonable (almost half the cost of what I paid for them was import duty) and I would be willing to pay similar prices for other series'. Sure, overall, Madoka costs more than Bakemonogatari, but Madoka was spread over 6 months. Say if Sword Art Online was hypothetically released in one go for £200-300, I'd say no. If it was released in 4 6-7 episode sets (including a blu-ray release) for around the same price a Madoka's, with a sufficient amount of extras and a month or two apart from the other, I would consider buying them.

Sorry for boring y'all. Here's the tl:dr version: Consumers aren't very easy to predict. For some, things are on a series by series basis.
 
It's an odd thing isn't it. I wouldn't pay £70 for a series released on DVD in the UK, but I'm happy paying that when it comes to import. I spent £40 to get The Wings of Honneamise, and that's just one movie. £70 for Gosick was no impediment, and I paid even more for the Australian Durarara, and £35 for Usagi Drop was an easy spend. But when it comes to the UK, I won't spend over £30 for a full length series, and I'm perfectly happy waiting on the sales before choosing to buy here. Eden of the East on Blu for under a tenner, yes please. I won't spend more than £6 for a movie on Blu, live action or anime. When MVM's titles are bound to wind up for £9.99 on their deal of the week, there isn't much point in spending more on a back catalogue title, while Manga's back catalogue price cuts are even more severe sometimes.
 
Just Passing Through said:
It's an odd thing isn't it. I wouldn't pay £70 for a series released on DVD in the UK, but I'm happy paying that when it comes to import. I spent £40 to get The Wings of Honneamise, and that's just one movie. £70 for Gosick was no impediment, and I paid even more for the Australian Durarara, and £35 for Usagi Drop was an easy spend. But when it comes to the UK, I won't spend over £30 for a full length series, and I'm perfectly happy waiting on the sales before choosing to buy here. Eden of the East on Blu for under a tenner, yes please. I won't spend more than £6 for a movie on Blu, live action or anime. When MVM's titles are bound to wind up for £9.99 on their deal of the week, there isn't much point in spending more on a back catalogue title, while Manga's back catalogue price cuts are even more severe sometimes.
I know that feeling. I easily spend £40 on some US releases, but I look at MangaUK's £25 stuff and think "No, too expensive".

I have no idea why that is though xD
 
It's a confusing one. In the past I brought Baccano from HMV instore for about £45. At the time, I knew I could get it cheaper, but did I care? Not really. I don't mind paying the odd one or two extra pounds.

However with say Clannad. 12/13 episodes, £24 - no. Why? Because even though I spent £45 on 16 episodes - for the overall 26 then followed by Clannad After Story. I consider it too expensive. It would go based on if i've seen the show in the past, how good I thought it was and the number of episodes in the volume compared to the full number of episodes. It probably doesn't help when Manga's DVDs go regularly on sale and they don't seem to stick to the same pricing across shows which annoyed me in the past when it came to 12-13 episodes shows not yet released being priced at either £15 or £18.
 
Well said with your long post, Josh! I agree with your reasoning (even though I liked the Blue Exorcist anime :p).

I won't pay much for UK releases either. The market has trained me to know they will be bargain binned after a couple of months, and since they're always released so much later than the foreign versions there's no real drawback to continuing to wait longer. That and I have a perception that the quality is lower. PAL conversions, dodgy subtitle problems and the companies' general inability to create fixed discs when things go wrong due to costs make me unwilling to pay too much for a product I see as worse. The helpless response to the Freedom BD issue absolutely disgusted me as a consumer.

The exception is where we get something tangible extra or it's a show I can't just buy a better version of more cheaply elsewhere. I was more than happy to support The Tatami Galaxy and House of Five Leaves when they came out here and would have paid two or three times more than the asking price for them. I was happy to pay a premium for the Wolf's Rain LE because it had the well-regarded soundtrack bundled in and was made with obvious care.

If the companies are just going to chuck out a cheap-looking double disc set with no liner notes, nice packaging, extras or quality control, they have to accept they aren't going to appeal to the type of collector looking to add something worth treasuring to their shelves. The companies doing this have trained us all to act the way we do in our purchasing.

R
 
I didn't notice PAL conversions until the OP/ED themes on the UK Strike Witches 2 DVD.

The main reason I chose to go with MangaUK's release was because we were getting the second season first and I wanted the spines to match...that didn't happen >>.
 
I really do struggle to understand the importance that people put on fancy box-art and physical extras. For me, the anime itself is what I want to buy - if it comes in a bog-standard case or something fancy, I don't really care. As long as the release itself is free of faults, I'm happy. After all, it's the art on the spine of the case that I see most of the time when I look at my collection - not the front or back of the case.
 
More personal thoughts incoming!

I've always thought of the content on the disc as the product, which is why my expectations in terms of pricing for anime are in line with other forms of media. I also recognise that because of the unique way in which anime is financed, that kind of expectation is rather unrealistic at the moment and I should expect to pay a bit more. However since I only have a fairly small amount of disposable income to spend on things like DVDs, Blu-ray and games, I have to weigh up the value-for-money of the products that I want as part of my decision to purchase. Whilst I like the look of some of the more lavish limited editions with their extra physical features, I have to look at the price and factor that in if I'm considering a purchase, alongside other factors such as my interest in the show, availability in the UK versus the US, better value releases elsewhere etc.

It is for this reason that I would never buy a Japanese-priced release, as I personally do not feel that for me they represent value-for-money. No matter how nice the physical extras may be or how good the show is, I simply cannot justify the cost when I look at the amount of the content on the disc compared with the price. That to me represents what I'm paying for: the content on the disc. The same thing applies for AniplexUSA releases. I'm probably the worst kind of customer for anime companies :p, in that when it comes to media such as TV and film, I'm looking to get the best possible disc content and a price comparable to what is offered elsewhere on the market. To me, for anime produced (and available) in high-definition, this means Blu-ray in season or half-season sets. That's not to say that I don't appreciate nice packaging, I will pay an extra couple of pounds for a Steelbook case since I really like them! Ultimately however, I see that as an optional premium, and my main concern is the content on the disc.

Once again, due to all the circumstances affecting anime as detailed excellently by everyone else in the thread, I know that it is very unrealistic to expect this for the UK market when the numbers just aren't there. I try and buy what I can, depending on the factors above, when I can afford to do so. Of course this may change if my latest degree gets me an actual job with an income, but we shall see :p
 
After reading this last page I'm actually glad I don't work in the UK anime industry - No wonder Jerome is the way he is. You bloody people and your diverse demands.

As another bloody person myself, I had a price point when I started collecting which the UK and US industry have since managed to surpass quite spectacularly. I used to say that £10 for a single volume (when series were released in 4-6 volumes) was fair, so I would happily pay £40-£60 for a full series. What happened then, unfortunately, was that as prices got cheaper, presentation got worse. I loved my art boxes and single volumes, but I hate plastic bricks and six discs crammed into a standard size case. There's no way I would pay £40-£60 for those (one single sided insert and one case? F*ck off, I want six of each for that kind of money) so I've revised the amount I'll pay downwards because of the obvious cheapness of presentation more recent releases. They got cheap and then they became worth less to me, which I imagine is exactly the reverse of why they became cheap in the first place (because you stingy buggers weren't buying them).

In distribution terms, I don't know why we aren't just part of North America (also generally, it was a mistake to let those colonies go). We share a language and our consumer markets are pretty much identical, amalgamating them would surely be good for business and consumers. I blame the BBFC. And friggin' PAL/NTSC.
 
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