Animefreak17 And His All-Purpose General Chat Thread

Dracos said:
animefreak17 said:
@Dracos
dude im 100% against piracy

and iv only ever brought 1 bootleg anime * at the time i didn't know what bootleging was* and when i found out what it ment i told my self no more bootleging.

i hate piracy 100% of my anime is the real deal and i hate downloading, if i did download i wouldn't feel like i accomplished anything and i wouldn't feel like there part of my collection
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Nice to see someone in the newer generations of anime fans who still counts their collection and viewing in legit DVDs owned/rented rather than dodgy Gigabytes downloaded or streamed.
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its not just anime its all dvds from live to animation.

its only dedicated dvd collectors who value there dvds or people who loves different movies and series. and they are the only people who knows that the better the quality the better the movies and series and also the extras are freakin awesome i for one think that people who downloads should have there internet taken away for a year and for those who own download discs should pay a 10 pound fine for each disc they have
 
Also some of the things we may class as bootlegs being region 0 are sometimes not as some asian companies do actually have distribution rights though even some of these tread a grey path as they don't often have the rights to the English dub or subtitles they include. It can be difficult difficult to tell the difference between genuine Asian imports and bootlegs but I think there are a few lists floating around as to which company names and logos to look out for both ways.
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Yeah, I asked my brother to get me House of the Five leaves for my birthday recently and he ended up buying the cheapest copy he could find, which was a copy from Malaysia. I wasn't quite sure whether it was legit or not, and it also had some bit's of random Japanese text and stuff that I know would never have been in the Beez version.
 
Lawrence said:
The problem with illegal downloads is not because they are "taking" a "copy" of some-else's work but because they provide a better service than the outdated business model that the film industry continues to work under and that's why they're losing business. Because they're being challenged by non-profit groups who tend to care about the quality of their films.
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Also non-cost groups given that they don't pay to licence the show they're subbing. It's very easy to make a superior, free product if you aren't paying for the raw materials or distribution and are doing the work for yourself for nothing.

"Have a free gold necklace! I stole the gold and had it made by a slave so no cost to me is no cost to you!"

The fact is that some people still did some work and didn't get paid for it, which is unfair. I'm guilty of downloading things which don't get licensed as well. I'm not gonna deny myself something because no-one's willing to offer me an official release, but I'll not try to justify doing it. I'm still receiving the fruit of someone's labours without giving them fair compensation.
 
^ You could always buy the Japanese DVD or a little bit of official show merchandise (there's surely always official show merchandise with anime) to ease your guilt

I don't actually do any of that due to fact that I don't know of any good illegal anime streaming/downloading sites. I don't think I've ever really got round to looking properly, I've already got too much a backlog of legitimately released/ streamed anime to catch up on.
 
It's a fallacy to assume that because something isn't released in your country, there's no official release. There (usually) is, it's just you may need some help to understand it. Which you could easily have if the fansubbers focused on simply providing translations rather than replicating the entire commercial product for free without permission.

I don't believe in just buying a bit of show merchandise as an appropriate recompense since the money for that could be going anywhere (and merchandise is frequently bootlegged too) but buying the complete Japanese blu/DVD release and grabbing the online subbed edition feels more fair. Of course few people would actually do that ^^;

R
 
This piracy stuff still bugs me, the bootleggers must be feeling the squeeze as much as the legit business with people downloading but still carry on and end up taking yet more money from the legit companies.

We are now getting access to more and more stuff legally and yet some sub groups still insist on doing shows that nearly everybody can get legally. I don't know if some do it just because they can or some are just saying F U to the industry. Fan subbing in the early days served the purpose of trying to get recognition for anime in general in the West trying to show companies there was a demand. Now it just seems to be a look at us and have some of this for free, download/view numbers can no longer be used to ascertain interest for physical purchase as most people just watch and move on. It is easy to give a supposedly better quality product when you are not having to deal with legal negotiations and interference from the primary company.

I would however like to see some sort of allowance from the Japanese companies where if something is not licensed after a given period fan sub groups can approach them for their permission to sub and stream it. There are several series I have been unable to finish as later seasons or OAVs were not licensed.

Anime seems to be one of they only fandoms that are pretty much out to destroy the source industry. "Do this do that, give us better stories, give us better quality and give it to us for free, what do you mean you are cutting jobs and those shows I really like because you have no money".

Those that download can come up with many excuses. "I have no money". "It is not available here". "It is better quality" (not sure how this works when it has to be ripped from some source that is supposedly worse). Yet it really just boils down to I am not going to pay for anything if I can help it.

I was listening to the Anime Nation's (who own an on line shop) podcast and they were discussing that Japan has now bought into law like many countries that it is illegal to circumvent copy protection and rip things. I thought they were going to say about copying things to iTunes and the like (which I think should be allowed) which they did for a little, but then the guy basically said that companies that can not compete with people offering their stuff for free should not exist and not be protected by laws. This from someone that makes a business out of selling this stuff. The entertainment industry is going to be great in the future when there is no money in it because everyone is too scared to invest as they won't get their money back before their stuff is just ripped off.

This entitled attitude is becoming more and more prevalent I am finding more podcasts and blogs where they just blatantly say they have downloaded whatever they are reviewing even if their is a legit release in their country.

All that being said the Japanese companies need to look at the way they operate and become a bit more cohesive and realistic with the way they negotiate contracts at the moment every little bit needs to be negotiated with different rights holders. This along with the Japanese trying to protect their high domestic prices is why we don't get day and date releases even on sub only products.
 
Rui said:
It's a fallacy to assume that because something isn't released in your country, there's no official release. There (usually) is, it's just you may need some help to understand it. Which you could easily have if the fansubbers focused on simply providing translations rather than replicating the entire commercial product for free without permission.

...buying the complete Japanese blu/DVD release and grabbing the online subbed edition feels more fair. Of course few people would actually do that ^^;
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Feels like ripping and subbing your own copies of the Japanese release to achieve the same result would be a hell of a lot of work to go to though - I recently downloaded copies of several music albums I already own to put on iTunes because it was quicker and easier than circumventing the copy protection on the CDs.

Then there's the small matter of how much Japanese releases cost relative to UK releases... I think I'd be tempted to steal anything which carried that kind of premium over local prices. And the problem there seems to be much bigger than the anime industry in that Japan is just too small a bit of land with too many people crammed onto it. Maybe if they could negotiate the purchace of Sakhalin from Russia their consumer prices might fall?

It all boils down to individual morality I guess. I am more than happy to buy anything that comes out as an official English release, but will continue to download things that don't and if one day I recieve a court summons due to doing so my attitude will be one of "it's a fair cop".
 
Dracos said:
This entitled attitude is becoming more and more prevalent I am finding more podcasts and blogs where they just blatantly say they have downloaded whatever they are reviewing even if their is a legit release in their country.
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Over the past couple of years it has become more and more apparent to me that many anime fans have an inflated sense of entitlement. It's quite worrying (to me at least) how many people who don't spend any money on anime see absolutely nothing wrong with downloading show after show. They just seem to think it's their fundamental right to be able to watch anime for free.

Up until the start of this year I was regularly downloading fansubs, so I'm certainly not squeaky clean in terms of piracy - but since I stopped downloading, I haven't really felt like I'm missing out on anything. If a show isn't licensed to stream over here (for example, Is this a Zombie s2), I'm happy to wait for it to eventually get a physical release and pick that up.

Regarding the motivations of fansub groups, it seems to me that most of the larger groups are ego-driven, rather than operating out of any desire to only sub shows that haven't been licensed by streaming sites.
 
ayase said:
Rui said:
It's a fallacy to assume that because something isn't released in your country, there's no official release. There (usually) is, it's just you may need some help to understand it. Which you could easily have if the fansubbers focused on simply providing translations rather than replicating the entire commercial product for free without permission.

...buying the complete Japanese blu/DVD release and grabbing the online subbed edition feels more fair. Of course few people would actually do that ^^;
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Feels like ripping and subbing your own copies of the Japanese release to achieve the same result would be a hell of a lot of work to go to though - I recently downloaded copies of several music albums I already own to put on iTunes because it was quicker and easier than circumventing the copy protection on the CDs.

Then there's the small matter of how much Japanese releases cost relative to UK releases... I think I'd be tempted to steal anything which carried that kind of premium over local prices. And the problem there seems to be much bigger than the anime industry in that Japan is just too small a bit of land with too many people crammed onto it. Maybe if they could negotiate the purchace of Sakhalin from Russia their consumer prices might fall?

It all boils down to individual morality I guess. I am more than happy to buy anything that comes out as an official English release, but will continue to download things that don't and if one day I recieve a court summons due to doing so my attitude will be one of "it's a fair cop".
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I am somewhere around here I won't download DVDs or fan subs for anime or movies, but I will from time to time download albums I have on original tape or vinyl as I can't be arsed to do capture and clean up myself. I only really do that as I am getting sick of having to re-buy things with each change in format.

VoxPhantom said:
Dracos said:
This entitled attitude is becoming more and more prevalent I am finding more podcasts and blogs where they just blatantly say they have downloaded whatever they are reviewing even if their is a legit release in their country.
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Over the past couple of years it has become more and more apparent to me that many anime fans have an inflated sense of entitlement. It's quite worrying (to me at least) how many people who don't spend any money on anime see absolutely nothing wrong with downloading show after show. They just seem to think it's their fundamental right to be able to watch anime for free.

Up until the start of this year I was regularly downloading fansubs, so I'm certainly not squeaky clean in terms of piracy - but since I stopped downloading, I haven't really felt like I'm missing out on anything. If a show isn't licensed to stream over here (for example, Is this a Zombie s2), I'm happy to wait for it to eventually get a physical release and pick that up.

Regarding the motivations of fansub groups, it seems to me that most of the larger groups are ego-driven, rather than operating out of any desire to only sub shows that haven't been licensed by streaming sites.
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Unfortunately a lot of people think that if someone in the world gets to watch it for free (ignoring cost for cable TV subscription) they should get it for free and in a form they can understand.
 
How can someone possibly have so much free time they've already seen everything worth watching that is somehow legally available? I can't even get through my backlog of physical discs, never mind all the streaming services etc.

There's just no excuse for having to download anymore (if there ever was).
 
FourthLion said:
How can someone possibly have so much free time they've already seen everything worth watching that is somehow legally available?
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It's not that clear cut though. People have different tastes, some aren't that interested in a lot of officially released modern stuff but might like to watch obscure old shows from the 1970s which are likely never going to warrant a UK or US release.
 
FourthLion said:
How can someone possibly have so much free time they've already seen everything worth watching that is somehow legally available? I can't even get through my backlog of physical discs, never mind all the streaming services etc.

There's just no excuse for having to download anymore (if there ever was).
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I have back logs of DVDs and legal streams just not enough time in the day.

The big problem with a lot of the hipster type way of viewing is people are only interested in the newest stuff and at that the things that are not released to everyone. So even if some of the legal stuff is very good it is always some fan subbed thing that is touted as the best thing of the season if it really is or not.
 
If I think something new is likely to get licensed I'll tend to wait it out. If I think there's no chance then I'll download it. Those hunches largely prove correct, the new Lupin is one where I've been pleasantly surprised that it's been picked up. Despite having downloaded it, I'll still be buying the discs when they come out. The same goes for older shows. If someone ever wants to release Space Runaway Ideon or Mazinger Z in English I'll be pre-ordering them almost as fast as I did Dirty Pair.

By the way, it's nice to have you back Dracos. I refrained from saying so earlier because EVERYBODY ALWAYS LEAVES but you've made a few posts now. Please stay.
 
Fansubbers are providing a better service than streamers for free, so throwing the word "entitlement" just sounds like a case of sour grapes. I'd rather not accept poor quality services and entertainment for the sake of moral higher ground.

The problem with any streaming business model is that they try to punish fansubbers instead of working with them. It's worked in markets even more niche than anime (like with JAST USA working with people that make English patches for visual novels).
 
There are an increasing number of outlets for fansubbers who want to work legitimately; by far the most exciting of which for me is Viki, as they're focusing on classics and have a simple interface anyone can contribute to (very easily at that, I've contributed some translations myself). However, most of the discussions on it seem to end up as a catfight about the rights of fansubbers to be individually credited for their translations rather than the exciting opportunity to spread anime to the masses that it should be.

I'd like to see the stuff on Viki eventually getting physical releases, potentially, but reuploading CR rips and subbing half a dozen variants of the Naruto anime seem to be the priority for the majority of people.

R
 
I'd never heard of Viki before, that's a truly excellent idea. Though from your description it sounds like it needs to be run with a dictatorial iron fist rather than this awful tendency towards design-by-committee that seems to have developed online in the last few years.
 
I am reading this thread in a time-slipped way so some replies I should have added in my last post are below too.

ayase: It's weird, they have been marketing it a lot with interviews/articles but somehow it hasn't caught on yet amongst anime fans. As a nitpicker it's very satisfying to just be able to leap in and fix a rubbish translation mid-episode, and while there is obvious vulnerability to people being lame with the way it's set up, the stuff I've been watching has worked surprisingly well with teams of people who aren't jerks checking the content. It also lets people who can't translate but have English skills contribute (via discussion if needed) and people who are monolingual and/or suck at writing but have a lot of patience can help by timing. I hate timing.

AF17: If it goes on much longer I'll split it out tonight, though ironically it's hard to split long threads because the forum software can't handle it :s

Lawrence: It's true that merchandise helps, but the natural outcome of that is that everyone starts making shows to pump merchandise, and the first casualty there will be the quirky genres which don't sell on their characters. I like both kinds of anime but a lot of people here would be annoyed if we get more Strike Witches and K-On! and less clever, not very marketable stuff. Also, buying a statue of Saber may only mean I like attractive blonde women in suits riding on motorcycles. Buying a Fate/Zero blu-ray box set (or just watching the legitimate streams, of which there are at least two we can view here) means I like Fate/Zero and its lush animation and dark story. Conclusions may be drawn by investors.

I think it does come down to cost and effort. Applying pre-timed subs certainly involves effort, though not much at all, but learning Japanese is an alternative solution. Or learning another language to double your buying power. Before I was comfortable buying raw Japanese shows, I would import German and French tapes. It's more desirable to have things with subtitles in English, of course, but if fans spent as much time learning languages as they did complaining about prices, I think they'd be better off.

R
 
what is or whats being or going to be licensed in the uk

just want to know so i won't get them from a region 1

i know theres going to be a lot but dont know which ones
 
Well, Manga Entertainment UK were asking if there was demand for One Piece in the UK. From what I gather there weren't many replies.
 
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