Anime/manga sales figures in the UK please!

VivisQueen

Adventurer
Why do we not have access to information about the sales figures of anime and manga in the UK?

Numbers are a key way of getting more educated about the industry and understanding what makes anime fans tick. This is such an obvious fact and such a fundamental capitalist tenet that I imagine there must be bizarre barriers at play preventing us from knowing. What are they, legal? Logistical? Laziness?

If possible, please, anime/manga companies, set up a public record of what you're selling. Thank you!
 
My guess is because it's probably quite embarrassing for them to admit to selling so few copies of some (read: most) releases. At least compared to non-anime. I feel quite sorry for our distros because the UK is such a rubbish market, but then I also feel sorry for myself for the same reason.

I'm sure we did garner some info on Manga's sales figures a while ago, though I can't recall who that information came courtesy of...
 
Because the companies that collate them like to charge for the info. Same with other things in the UK, I think. I'm sure you can get them, if you're prepared to pay.

I will agree that sales figures discussion can be interesting, though.
 
ilmaestro said:
Because the companies that collate them like to charge for the info. Same with other things in the UK, I think. I'm sure you can get them, if you're prepared to pay.

I will agree that sales figures discussion can be interesting, though.
totally
 
You agree... with what? You already established that you agree with the general premise of the thread in your first post.
 
ilmaestro said:
You agree... with what? You already established that you agree with the general premise of the thread in your first post.
i want to see the figures of the number of copies of dvds thats been sold im agreeing to that
 
Well, Manga have mentioned via Twitter a few times that they think the total fanbase for anime in the UK is around 10,000...
 
Rob F1UK said:
Well, Manga have mentioned via Twitter a few times that they think the total fanbase for anime in the UK is around 10,000...
there must be more then that look at akira on tv that had nearly 60.000 viewers
 
Most companies do not discuss sales figures in public, unless they can use it as advertising. So you will only hear about the mega successes, such as when Manga's initial Naruto releases broke five figures. It's giving too much information to the competition for one thing, and it does affect how your company is perceived.

I have seen projected sales figures for anime, and considering that Revelation doesn't sell anime any more in the UK, I guess it's OK to mention it now. You have to put into context though, Revelation never really had the market impact that Manga, MVM or ADV had, certainly didn't have the advertising to really push their titles.

When I got their review discs, they were pretty much alone in sending out internal projected sales figures with their discs, no other company does that, and I guess it was to save on doubling up on printed PR material.

When they released

Tsubasa V5, they expected to sell 1000 units in month 1
School Rumble V3 750 units
Peach Girl V5 500 units
Mushi-shi V5 500 units
FMA Alchemist The Movie LE 5400 units

That's what they wanted to achieve. The fact that Funimation pulled their deal and contracted with Manga instead indicates that they didn't achieve their aims.

One concrete sales figure that I did have from them states that they sold 740 units of Full Metal Alchemist Season 1 Part 1 in just the first week, indicating that they had some success with their boxsets.

Anecdotally, it seems that when the contract for Funi product switched from MVM to Revelation in the middle of FMA's run, the sales of the FMA single volumes plummeted, because few people knew that Revelation were still releasing them.

Also anecdotally, we hear tell that Blu-ray requires 3000 sales to break even. A few years ago, with DVD it would have been 1000 sales, although I guess that figure might be lower now.

A killer anime title, like the initial Naruto boxsets hit trade headlines when they break five figures in sales. From that we can expect the average anime title to indicate success when they break four figures. 1000 sales for a show on DVD is a success.

At the other end of the scale, we do hear about utter failures. When ADV were circling the drain, they did mention that some single volume discs, like Red Garden and Wallflower sold a few tens of copies.

It's important to note that with most companies now, it's the initial sales figures that matter, that inform their decisions. It's what a show does in the first month, or even the first week that is important. What a show does over the lifetime of its release is less important. The initial release will see profit for the company, even with the pre-release discount. When e-tailers start putting discs in bargain buckets and clearance sales, not so much.

And with the death of the high street, it's become apparent that not even week 1 matters anymore. It's preorders that are counted, as became apparent with the Casshern Sins Blu debacle.

Remember that Blu needs around 3000 just to break even. My guess is that pre-orders for Casshern Sins Part 1 on Blu may have only been in the low three figures, or less. If pre-orders had been closer to 1000, I personally wouldn't have been so hasty to cancel it. The sales for that must have been an utter disaster, although that is only my opinion and conjecture.

You certainly don't publish those sales figures.

But if we take the figures of 1000 for a successful DVD, and 3000 for a successful Blu-ray as gospel, then Manga's intimation of 10000 disc-buying fans in the UK seems very conservative. After all, not every fan buys every series, and 10,000 implies that each fan has 10% of market output on their shelves. That's actually a whole lot of anime, four or five new titles a year. I'd say that casual fans who buy the occasional anime probably increase that number significantly, maybe 20 - 25,000. Of course there are the hardcore forumites who'll buy everything that comes out. I'd say that's a few hundred people, the ones that complain when a series is cancelled mid-run, but as previously stated, a few hundred isn't enough to sustain an industry.

Of course everyone wants to be Optimum Releasing. Their Ghibli discs push 6 figures easy, supreme titles like Spirited Away may even have pushed past that to Hollywood blockbuster levels, a few hundred thousand.

Incidentally, prior to Avatar, the biggest selling DVD in the UK was Mamma Mia, which sold 1.7 million on day one of release. The average mainstream blockbuster title sells a few hundred thousand copies on initial release.

That makes five figures for Naruto, a niche interest title, look f***ing amazing, and why four figures for the average anime DVD is pretty healthy.
 
With regards to blu-ray, shows need to get released here quicker if companies don't want people to import. Casshern Sins for instance was out on Region A last August (both parts) and Xam'd was out around October/November last year.. Even FMA Brotherhood was getting released about 3 months later (I think I had already received volume 1 by the time Manga announced it and I might even have had volume 2 on preorder).
 
Just Passing Through said:
EVERY USEFUL WORD.

Thank you very much for that post, it was really enlightening. I had no idea the market in the UK was that tiny. I knew it was small, but not that miniscule. I suppose that makes me grateful that anybody'd even bother to sell to us. I know they're profit seeking, but trying to get a huge, diverse set of works to a tiny bunch of people, most of whom can't afford expensive things because they're not of working age makes it an admirable effort.

But if they explained how small the market is, surely their sales figures would make sense. I mean, to say the fanbase is maybe 10k and then explain you sold 3k of a DVD boxset, nobody'd think you were failing. In fact, I think maybe that's exactly what UK fans need - education. The better we understand our market and how it survives, the better we are equipped to work with the industry. Think about it. Before your post, I was probably thinking more along the lines of hundreds of thousands of people and wondering why they don't bloody bring me Rose of Versailles with English sub. And that's because nobody in the UK would buy it. Out of 10k people, I'd guess two people would pay for that show and one of them is me (I already own the German copy, Rose was shown here on TV through the 80s and 90s and thus has a good fanbase).

But yeah, I just wish all the companies somehow just offered the figures for all their sales. It would make my job as a fan and a reviewer much easier.
 
VivisQueen said:
Before your post, I was probably thinking more along the lines of hundreds of thousands of people and wondering why they don't bloody bring me Rose of Versailles with English sub. And that's because nobody in the UK would buy it. Out of 10k people, I'd guess two people would pay for that show and one of them is me (I already own the German copy, Rose was shown here on TV through the 80s and 90s and thus has a good fanbase).

Aha! Is it correct that the German set is German dubbed (Lady Oscar) only?

Sorry, I've been thinking of picking up the Italian sets on my next trip but German would be better for me. Only for some reason from all the data I could find Germany seems to be without the Japanese track and I'd always wanted to check with an owner...

R, who would probably be the other of those two people
 
It's also worth noting that live action kicks anime's arse. By all accounts, MVM's live action releases have been doing far better for them than their anime releases. Manga's live action discs regularly show up on supermarket shop shelves, and even dross like the Ghenghis Khan movie they released half a year ago can afford Blu-ray releases.

Also helpful is cross media exposure, if there is a computer game of the anime, then you get added sales from that demographic, the bigger the game, the bigger the sale. There's a reason why Manga's biggest selling anime title of 2010 was Professor Layton.
 
Just Passing Through said:
There's a reason why Manga's biggest selling anime title of 2010 was Professor Layton.

Yes, but wouldn't it be even better if we could say exactly how many of those they sold? My point is definitely not knowing what is successful, but HOW MUCH of everything they sell. Manga, I beg you! Release your information!

Rui: This is the copy I own http://www.amazon.de/Oscar-Komplettbox- ... 868&sr=1-1

and yes, it's German dub only. No Japanese track. I first watched Rose in German as a child and I understand German perfectly so this works for me. But if you want the Japanese track, I suppose stick with Italian?
 
Thanks Vivi, I'll go with the Italian one then this autumn. It's strange that Germany's release seems to be the only one of the major European countries without the Japanese track, but their own dub market is so healthy I guess it wasn't seen as worth it.

I seem to recall Manga gave a figure for Layton's sales at MCM Expo in spring, but I can't remember what it was. Perhaps someone recorded the panel. Manga can often be tempted into revealing figures on Twitter if they're asked nicely; it's always very interesting when they get overly chatty and start sharing stats!

With Layton I think a small contributor (as well as the obvious huge tie-in and improved marketing) was that there was no US release at all to compete with at the time, so they got a decent head start. I know that's why I bought my copy.

R
 
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