Anime Debating Thread

Tachi

Tachi

Mushi-shi
Experiment 2..... Simple enough, ?
Discuss anime titles, any anime you want. One "side" talk about the pros and the other "side" talk about the cons, compare the anime to other anime titles and debate over what makes it good and what lets it down.
(the sides are not set up, i'm hoping that as individuals you eventually become two sides)

Hoping that things get a little heated, but remain civilized.
if nobody posts in this then it only proves that without something to spark a debate eg: touchy subjects then the forums don't have the capacity to keep a thread about anime going.

Start you off with an easy one:

Bleach
Pros?
Cons?
Comparible to?
Rise and Downfall?
If it could be redone what would you do to improve it?

If the thread becomes a hive of activity and works, which i hope it does. then it also proves that my movites for creating unrest amongst people for a small time to see how it goes was worth it
 
Bleach

I was very much a pro-Bleach fan when I initially caught wind of the premise and to this day, I still am a firm advocate of it. A teenage boy granted the powers of a Shinigami and facing off against evil creatures created by the malice within spirits. And he has a huge sword. What wasn't to like eh?

Pro

During it's first arc "The Substitute" I believe Bleach felt the freshest and most unique. It was unlike anything I had watched and kept me coming back religiously during the first 20 episodes. From there I believe the anime dropped down a notch and the pacing suffered slightly, but the action and the twists and turns throughout made for an enjoyable second and third season, and the most recent seasons have also managed to recover from an unfortunate dive in quality with the anime only storylines.

One of the strongest facets that Bleach has is its extremely wide and popular array of characters. There are so many within the series that could single handedly make you want to watch such as Kenpachi, Hitsugaya, Byakuya.....the list could go on. Bleach manages to give most of its roster quality screen time, and still manages to never overwhelm with the sheer size of the cast.

If Bleach would have ended after the conclusion of the third series, it is clear to me that even without finishing its story it would've remained as one of my favourite anime series. A self contained bundle of 63 episodes with a brilliant story. However, as with most anime series based on a long running manga, the finish line was nowhere in sight and the anime was catching up with the manga, so filler arcs were intoduced.

Con

A lower budget was the first thing that was evident with the Bount arc as well as an overall poor plot and unlikeable throwaway villains. I gave it enough time to try and hook me (about 20 episodes) but unfortunately I could not go on and found myself forgetting to obtain the episodes.

Since that point, my relationship with the anime has been hit and miss. the subsequent filler arcs have again failed to engage me for the same reasons as to why I disliked the original Bount Arc, while the manga arcs have capitalised on the strong story and the vast amount of quality new characters and intrigue it brings with it, so then what can be done? This obviously is a show with a vast amount of qualities that is just let down on one front.

What to change?

I very much feel that the positives of the show far outweigh the single negative I feel it is afflicted with, weak anime only stories.

If Bleach could be done over like say DBZ Kai is currently doing, then I feel the filler arcs should be chopped straight out and left on the chopping room floor. They drag the series down to levels it does not deserve. Looking at the series as a whole without the filler, it is a great ride and does not dawdle with its story telling. I would not change anything else about the show, barring possibly some questionable English dubbing.

Comparable to

The obvious shows to associate Bleach with are the other long running shows like Naruto, One Piece and Dragonball Z. However, the likes of Yu Yu Hakusho and Inuyasha are also comparable.
 
I'm not the greatest long writer, so this will likely be a tad short.

Pros?
Bleach up until the end of the 3rd arc is one of the best shounen shows made, with a strong variety of characters, and interesting concepts for villains.

Cons?
TOO DAMN LONG. Which is to say, even during parts of the show based on the manga, it takes too long for fights to resolve and move the plot along. Plus as much as fans love to watch long fights, when they are spread across a lot of episodes, it looks like a lot of nothing is happening. This is a major problem during the Hueco Mundo Arc.

Rise and Downfall?
The Bount filler arc was the start of the downfall, but honestly, wasn't completely terrible. The major downfall came when filler would suddenly start during major parts of the actual story, rather than waiting for the story to resolve and then adding the filler.

If it could be redone what would you do to improve it?
Cut about 150 out of the show, and give it seasonal breaks, so rather than running itself into the ground with poor filler episodes, it would get to a point where fans are tense, and then take a break. Absence makes the heart grow fonder afterall, and we can't miss you if you don't leave.
 
Pros? Big swords. Aizen's instant hair gel transformation.
Cons? Its plot repeating itself, over and over. Rukia lacking Orihime's assets.
Comparible to? Every other lengthy shounen work that continues to worsen as its milked for all its worth until retardation.
Rise and Downfall? It flew like a bird until the end of the SS arc, then crashed like an elephant that was being airlifted and fell to its death, tragically.
If it could be redone what would you do to improve it? Make it less popular so Kubo was forced to A) put in more effort and B) end it.
 
Pros - Like Aion I thought it was great up to the end of SS arc. It was well thought out and very enjoyable with some great comedy moments.

Cons - Too long. Kubo just simply good enough to keep the audience entertained. The arcs keep falling down hill and dragged much longer then necessary.

Comparable to - Buso Renkin mainly, though it's more like the other way round [= Another long last manga which fortunately doesn't follow the same success as One Piece and Hunter X Hunter.

Rise and Downfall - It quickly rose to fame from chapter one. It was new although not exactly original, but slightly fresh. It could have ended on a high after the Soul Society arc, but instead it Kubo let it fall down into utter rubbish.

If it could be redone what would you do to improve it - Turn back time and kidnap Kubo after he had completed the SS arc and force him to cut his fingers off.
 
Pros
A ubiquitous yet effective solution for disintegrating amassed blockages. Can also be used to disinfect if applied with due caution.

Cons
A notoriously high toxicity. The irritant effects of chlorine are somewhat ghastly.

Comparable to
Other bactericidal substances. Cationic surfactants form one notable subset of these inter alia.

Rise and Downfall
Its prominence in household disinfectants, and the move towards more environmentally-friendly cleaning products, respectively.

If it could be redone what would you do to improve it?
Use an alternative catalyst to sodium nonanoyloxybenzenesulfonate, for its name is difficult to spell.
 
This feels like an appropriate thread in which to admit I started watching Bleach from episode 50 or so and have gotten up to episode 265 without feeling that I missed much. Apparently I missed the best part of it?

Pros: it has some genuinely affecting moments (although I can be a sucker for melodrama sometimes), and the sheer length of the series encourages a lot of emotional investment from viewers.

Cons: the sheer length of the series, or more specifically the interminable filler arcs. As King Jimmeh mentioned, it seems the creators are scared of having any breaks in the series. Which is unfortunate seeing as it's based on an ongoing manga. A personal con is that I feel bad when I realise how many episodes of this I've watched.

Comparible to: "I am Eastenders, you are Corrie!" [said Bleach to Naruto in a lame Things To Do In Denver... paraphrasing] Seriously, I cannot be bothered watching anything else of this length to compare it to.

Rise and Downfall: is this even possible to comment on with an ongoing series? I can barely even remember half the episodes anyway.

Improvements?: Have to partly agree with Aion- it really needs an ending, aided by less filler. That said, I guess a lot of soaps rumble on for decades, although the thought of Bleach doing that would be... somehow wrong.

Edit: reading comprehension fail. I can't decide whether I'm pro- or con- for this anyway. Did I mention I can be indecisive sometimes?
 
Pros
From the beginning it hit the ground running, character design is well thought out and the characters are easy to relate to, leading to a better story/audience interaction.
The storyline works really well until the end of the Soul society arc, if your yet to try this anime in the manga the cut off would be around volume 20. and the anime – end of series 3 boxset.

Cons
After the SS arc it seems to hover along before nosediving into poor planning and filler fodder area. Some fights become really hyped up only to end quickly, possibilities of really enjoyable fights become long winded dialog and a very much disappointing “look at how strong I am, perfect being” and the next moment the other guy who was inches from death has somehow achieved a higher level and somehow revitalised.

Comparable to
Long winded like Dragonball Z, Long running like Naruto. However compared to the latter the storyline is less enjoyable and drags its feet far too much.


Rise and Downfall
Rise – beginning to SS
Fall, Everything post SS Arc

If it could be redone what would you do to improve it?
Redo all fights post SS, better fight scenes, less dialog during aizen fights and when the aizen fight ends cut the story off there. once he’s lost his powers its pointless to carry on, maybe 2 volumes on how lifes now back to normal, like the fight scene at school. But that’s all. Nothing else
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pros?
First seven volumes.

Cons?

The heart.

Comparible to?
Well it is a Yu-Yu Hakusho rip-off with swords.

Rise and Downfall?
Rise: First seven volumes
Downfall: A lot of Soul Society.

If it could be redone what would you do to improve it?
Actually have backgrounds this time, that's pretty much it. The series should be kept as it is. "Who said the number goes from 1 to 10?"
 
I thought we were talking about the anime exclusively, seeing as how this is an anime thread, because the manga is a different kettle of fish entirely imo.
 
Not really a debate so much as people listing their thoughts on a show -- that's not my point, though; when/how/what/who/etc does the "BLEACH" part of this thread end? I know it says talk about what you want, but that makes it similar to the Rate The Last Anime You Watched thread.

Pros?
Some nice character designs and the early score was pretty great. Good sense of humour about itself, too.

Cons?
Lost the sense of humour, mostly. Chucked another 100 castmembers in at one time, which stretches out the fights since they have to jump around a lot. Renji's character completely done a 180. Does a lot of stuff (including baking cakes) without really doing or explaining much. Not to mention the lack of direction.

Comparible to?
Any episodic shonen comedy at the beginning. Gintama or something. Then comes the Rescue Arc, which has been played out many times before. Around 150 it became DBZ. Then Rescue Arc. Then a flashback arc? Whatever.

Rise and Downfall?
Rise episode 1 - 3. Downfall 4 - 20-something. Rise eps 40 - 60-ish. Downfall forever after that.

If it could be redone what would you do to improve it?
Given the characters and the show as a whole a target, even if its something stupid. It needs a Dragonball or something to achieve. What is Ichigo and the rest doing this stuff for? Do we actually care about SS or Karakura being destroyed; you can't just say its sad... make it sad! Would have also made the anime designs a little bit rougher to they were more close to Kubo's drawing. And not changed the music to Spanish/Mexian whatever tunes.
 
britguy said:
I thought we were talking about the anime exclusively, seeing as how this is an anime thread, because the manga is a different kettle of fish entirely imo.
Click to expand...

In cases, the anime follows the manga very closely, in others it doesn't but feel free to add your bit about the manga if you think it helps your post.


Jayme said:
Not really a debate so much as people listing their thoughts on a show -- that's not my point, though; when/how/what/who/etc does the "BLEACH" part of this thread end? I know it says talk about what you want, but that makes it similar to the Rate The Last Anime You Watched thread.
Click to expand...


As i said in the first post that i intend it to be a debate, the list of things below where to help people talk about things, giving them ideas if you will.

but it seems they where taken as points of a list rather than ideas on things to talk about.

Anyway, the bleach part ends whenever, its now upto you AUKN to randomly dip names into the fold for people to talk about, their likes and what they enjoyed against what others didn't enjoy. hopefully the two points will conflict and set a true debate in motion.


Example:
Person 1 "i like naruto, he's funny and the story is enjoyable"
Person 2 "are you crazy? the 'jokes' aren't funny and the story is too boring"
Person 1 "how is it? the story has 'insert random facts' going for it and loads of people enjoy it"
Person 2 "sure, but there's times like 'insert random fact here' where it lets the story down, or the character design is spoilt"


That help?
 
Ok then, I assume everyone agrees that Bleach is a cracking show for 63 episodes, then it becomes an average and often below average show from that point.
 
britguy said:
Ok then, I assume everyone agrees that Bleach is a cracking show for 63 episodes, then it becomes an average and often below average show from that point.
Click to expand...

one way of putting it lol

Anyone else feel free to throw a name in for people to talk about.
 
Evangelion?

Overrated pap with pseudo philosophical ideas fused with giant robots and a whiny unlikeable emo like teen as its main character.

Sure there are a few events I liked and watching the cut down Death and Rebirth and then End of Evangelion is slightly more enjoyable, but as a whole series it just didnt succeed for me.

It is like the anime equivalent of that guy you know who tries way to hard to be cool, and in the end it fails. (Replace cool with insightful, intellectual, philosophical or pretentious for maximum damage)
 
britguy said:
Ok then, I assume everyone agrees that Bleach is a cracking show for 63 episodes, then it becomes an average and often below average show from that point.
Click to expand...

Bleach takes a drop in quality during the fillers (more specifically the Bount arc) but barring that, no, I don't think it takes a nose-dive. It's currently fantastic, and the arcs leading up to this have been. The Arrancar Arc was fantastic, as was the Turn Back the Pendulum arc.

My only real point of weakness with Bleach was the bount arc. The single episode fillers are forgivable, and the Zanpakutou Rebellion arc was enjoyable. I really enjoyed it, actually.
 
I've only read the the new arcs and not watched the anime, and they are great. Turn Back the Pendulum is perhaps the greatest part of Bleach so far. REVELATIONS!

I was describing the anime as what is readily available so far here in the UK, which I believe is up to the end of the Bount Arc. Perhaps I should have noted that lol

He's the best male character in the show bar Tabris
Click to expand...

He's no Edward Elric, Ichigo Kurosaki, Light Yagami or Sousuke Sagara in my eyes.
 
Back
Top