Me too - I loved the manga!I'm so psyched for Hana-Kimi!!
Anime as a global product
- Thread starter Vashdaman
- Start date
Vashdaman
Cardcaptor
Merry Christmas AUKN!
Nothing especially surprising here, but Anno recently has said he doesn't think the international market should be given much thought when producing anime and that it's the marketing people's job to sell it to the west rather than the creator's responsibility to make something with global appeal. It's hard to disagree with any of that. Although I'm not sure I buy his claim that the anime industry hasn't started trying to chase global hits.
automaton-media.com
Nothing especially surprising here, but Anno recently has said he doesn't think the international market should be given much thought when producing anime and that it's the marketing people's job to sell it to the west rather than the creator's responsibility to make something with global appeal. It's hard to disagree with any of that. Although I'm not sure I buy his claim that the anime industry hasn't started trying to chase global hits.
Neon Genesis Evangelion director Hideaki Anno doesn’t believe creating for the global market is the way to go. “I’m sorry, but the audience will have to be the one to adapt” - AUTOMATON WEST
In a recent interview, Neon Genesis Evangelion director Hideaki Anno shared his impressions of the Japanese content industry going global.
automaton-media.com
Aion
Chuunibyou
Great thread. Read through the posts on the first page. Interesting insights/ramblings. Partly due to anime becoming a more mainstream/global product, and in doling so losing the allure of what originally attracted me, my interest has faded. Only really re-buy stuff owned on DVD from the 2000s, or stuff never watched from the cel era that looks glorious in HD. More of a collector, these days. If not for Frieren existing to counter isekais with actual medieval fantasy world-building (hero party/demon lords aside~), and Chainsaw/Dadandan to take shounen tropes into visually stunning, entertaining directions, I'd watch nadda new... well, maybe Yona & Squirrel S2 will be worth a look, too~
Many of my points will be anecdotal. I would however like to mention how ahead of his time Kawajiri was: he targeted the Western market before anime hit the big time globally; going as far as to make the English dub the default and oversee its production directly. In VHD: Bloodlust, despite its gothic architecture, none could miss the Japanese stylistic edge it had, such was his experience in the industry and film-making techniques dating back to the 80/90s.
Watanabe was another that targeted Western markets, without his works losing their 'anime' identity. I wish more series would imitate Samurai Champloo, ie a period piece soaked in Japanese cultural/samurai history, blended with hip-hop/funky weirdness. 'Tis a pity that did not sell well, given Monglobe's fate~ I'd even take more Akatsuki Yona's that manage to depict ancient China/Korean culture costume porn, whilst still being very much a shoujo.
As @BrokenPhoenix touched upon, for me the major turning point in anime becoming a mainstream global tingymajig was actually Attack on Titan, which then lead into the isekai fad. I am much too lazy to check statistics but given the decline of comics and the rise of manga, AoT became a The Walking Dead competitor once the anime came to be. Survival series have a global demand and its medieval/walled European aesthetic evaded any cultural disconnects. 'Anime tourism' became prominent, fanservice started being toned down - with series like High School of the Dead looked down on for its sexism - and there was a shift. And here we be.
I still remember being shocked when my psychologist - a young trainee though he was - watched AoT, and insisted everyone watches anime nowadays.
When I got into anime in the early 2000s - after the OVA boom era, around when anime was shifting fully to digital - it was an odd period for the industry, with 2D/CG very awkwardly co-existing. And also the perfect time for me, given the 'anything goes' creativity from numerous studios. There was Gonzo coming into existence; casually adapting the unadaptable into anime re-imaginings: The Count of Monte Cristo, Romeo & Juliet & Seven Samurai (often with robots, cause Japan/why not). Bones were being equally chaotic, with new IPs. Then there was Madhouse, adapting seinen properties doomed not to sell... or in the case of Gungrave, turning a PS2 game with little story into something more comparable to The Godfather/Berserk's Golden Age with zombies, and Trigun artwork. Just 'cause. Plus the supposed Shounen Jump title Death Note, which was as far removed from as Naruto as humanly possible, and still is like nothing else I've watched. Sunrise then decided to copy it, with non-CG robots and CLAMP. It was unsustainable madness.
The 2000s era was undoubtedly rough around the edges; especially visually, with the digital switchover, early digipaint, and things being animated at lower resolutions that render them ugly upscales today. But there was innovation, and boundaries being pushed in both the ambition of the premise, and how they were created. Unlike today.
Currently, isekai - and the plague that is light novel adaptations - have done to anime what Marvel has done to Hollywood: turned the industry into a trend chasing mess, without any identity, and with film-making tricks/techniques lost to time. I don't doubt @Dai that these 'game' medieval fantasies are based on Japanese interests/D&D, vs a fondness of generic European settings, given they're driven by light novels which are popular first/only in Japan. But the games aspect is more or less shoved into the background; leaving only a medieval setting without world-building. There is nothing there that I loved in JRPGs, of that I am certain. There's so little 'Japanese' it comes across like it could be set anywhere; targeted at anyone. Hence their popularity over, say, Japanese school settings, with very noisy cicadas making frequent cameos.
'Tis sad I feel this way in as, once upon a time, I came to watch anime because of my love of narrative-driven JRPGs, and their eccentricities unique to them. JRPGs love their medieval fantasies, after all. My first two anime, naturally, were Star Ocean Ex - a terrible, half-finished disc 1 adaptation of Star Ocean 2 - and .hack//SIGN. Medieval series were quite rare, besides a few game adaptations and... Slayers/TWHE/Lodoss. Now, they're everywhere, and all no consequence wish fulfillment 'you can fix your life by starting over afresh' garbage.
The slow fall of Studio Ghibli was a huge loss to anime/Japanese culture, as their directorial talent evaporated. Besides shounen tie-ins and the latest Shinkai/generic romance flicks, the anime film industry died with Ghibli/Madhouse. It's similar to what happened to Disney, which to me as a kid were what Ghibli was to many: they've now been reduced to remaking their famous 2D movies, fully CG'd. Carrying none of the heart/impact the hand-drawn originals did. It's difficult to articulate how much is lost, going from lovingly detailed 2D worlds, to - in anime in particular - empty CG backdrops. I wonder how many Japanese actually care, given they never made a distinction between anime/animation to begin with...
And as @Rui mentioned, 'tis not just anime: Japanese game development is in an even more depressing state. Final Fantasy gave up entirely, first with FF15 being a WRPG, then FF16 a... blend of Game of Thrones and DMC. All to cater to the Western market. Sony getting rid of their Japanese development studios, and Naughty Dog etc taking over killed imagination/creativity dead. The Last of Us had every Sony game become on over the shoulder walk/talk/shoot thing. I didn't realise at the time how sad Gravity Rush 2 flopping was--until Astro Boy, there was nothing 'Japanese' in tone or approach whatsoever. Nintendo have been going down a similar path, abandoning creativity for money. There's little room left for innovation, or taking any chances, given the huge amount of money involved in production, so instead boxes are ticked.
Many of my points will be anecdotal. I would however like to mention how ahead of his time Kawajiri was: he targeted the Western market before anime hit the big time globally; going as far as to make the English dub the default and oversee its production directly. In VHD: Bloodlust, despite its gothic architecture, none could miss the Japanese stylistic edge it had, such was his experience in the industry and film-making techniques dating back to the 80/90s.
Watanabe was another that targeted Western markets, without his works losing their 'anime' identity. I wish more series would imitate Samurai Champloo, ie a period piece soaked in Japanese cultural/samurai history, blended with hip-hop/funky weirdness. 'Tis a pity that did not sell well, given Monglobe's fate~ I'd even take more Akatsuki Yona's that manage to depict ancient China/Korean culture costume porn, whilst still being very much a shoujo.
As @BrokenPhoenix touched upon, for me the major turning point in anime becoming a mainstream global tingymajig was actually Attack on Titan, which then lead into the isekai fad. I am much too lazy to check statistics but given the decline of comics and the rise of manga, AoT became a The Walking Dead competitor once the anime came to be. Survival series have a global demand and its medieval/walled European aesthetic evaded any cultural disconnects. 'Anime tourism' became prominent, fanservice started being toned down - with series like High School of the Dead looked down on for its sexism - and there was a shift. And here we be.
I still remember being shocked when my psychologist - a young trainee though he was - watched AoT, and insisted everyone watches anime nowadays.
When I got into anime in the early 2000s - after the OVA boom era, around when anime was shifting fully to digital - it was an odd period for the industry, with 2D/CG very awkwardly co-existing. And also the perfect time for me, given the 'anything goes' creativity from numerous studios. There was Gonzo coming into existence; casually adapting the unadaptable into anime re-imaginings: The Count of Monte Cristo, Romeo & Juliet & Seven Samurai (often with robots, cause Japan/why not). Bones were being equally chaotic, with new IPs. Then there was Madhouse, adapting seinen properties doomed not to sell... or in the case of Gungrave, turning a PS2 game with little story into something more comparable to The Godfather/Berserk's Golden Age with zombies, and Trigun artwork. Just 'cause. Plus the supposed Shounen Jump title Death Note, which was as far removed from as Naruto as humanly possible, and still is like nothing else I've watched. Sunrise then decided to copy it, with non-CG robots and CLAMP. It was unsustainable madness.
The 2000s era was undoubtedly rough around the edges; especially visually, with the digital switchover, early digipaint, and things being animated at lower resolutions that render them ugly upscales today. But there was innovation, and boundaries being pushed in both the ambition of the premise, and how they were created. Unlike today.
Currently, isekai - and the plague that is light novel adaptations - have done to anime what Marvel has done to Hollywood: turned the industry into a trend chasing mess, without any identity, and with film-making tricks/techniques lost to time. I don't doubt @Dai that these 'game' medieval fantasies are based on Japanese interests/D&D, vs a fondness of generic European settings, given they're driven by light novels which are popular first/only in Japan. But the games aspect is more or less shoved into the background; leaving only a medieval setting without world-building. There is nothing there that I loved in JRPGs, of that I am certain. There's so little 'Japanese' it comes across like it could be set anywhere; targeted at anyone. Hence their popularity over, say, Japanese school settings, with very noisy cicadas making frequent cameos.
'Tis sad I feel this way in as, once upon a time, I came to watch anime because of my love of narrative-driven JRPGs, and their eccentricities unique to them. JRPGs love their medieval fantasies, after all. My first two anime, naturally, were Star Ocean Ex - a terrible, half-finished disc 1 adaptation of Star Ocean 2 - and .hack//SIGN. Medieval series were quite rare, besides a few game adaptations and... Slayers/TWHE/Lodoss. Now, they're everywhere, and all no consequence wish fulfillment 'you can fix your life by starting over afresh' garbage.
The slow fall of Studio Ghibli was a huge loss to anime/Japanese culture, as their directorial talent evaporated. Besides shounen tie-ins and the latest Shinkai/generic romance flicks, the anime film industry died with Ghibli/Madhouse. It's similar to what happened to Disney, which to me as a kid were what Ghibli was to many: they've now been reduced to remaking their famous 2D movies, fully CG'd. Carrying none of the heart/impact the hand-drawn originals did. It's difficult to articulate how much is lost, going from lovingly detailed 2D worlds, to - in anime in particular - empty CG backdrops. I wonder how many Japanese actually care, given they never made a distinction between anime/animation to begin with...
And as @Rui mentioned, 'tis not just anime: Japanese game development is in an even more depressing state. Final Fantasy gave up entirely, first with FF15 being a WRPG, then FF16 a... blend of Game of Thrones and DMC. All to cater to the Western market. Sony getting rid of their Japanese development studios, and Naughty Dog etc taking over killed imagination/creativity dead. The Last of Us had every Sony game become on over the shoulder walk/talk/shoot thing. I didn't realise at the time how sad Gravity Rush 2 flopping was--until Astro Boy, there was nothing 'Japanese' in tone or approach whatsoever. Nintendo have been going down a similar path, abandoning creativity for money. There's little room left for innovation, or taking any chances, given the huge amount of money involved in production, so instead boxes are ticked.
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