A discussion on "moe"

[hopeful_monster]

Moe... by its very definition it is impossible to dislike it. It's not a character type, rather a feeling felt towards certain characters. Not everyone will feel moe for the same characters. It's a hard feeling to give a description of, but for me it's the feeling of the want to cheer them on, you feel happy when they feel happy.

I've always though of it as the 'aww didums' feeling. The desire to protect and help said character.

It is most definitly not a sexual feeling.

Initially yes, but these days not so much, much like the term it has evolved.
Now it seems to mean a shy, clumsy girl often well a Yamato Nadeshiko. And there seems to be an undercurrent of sexual attraction. though wether this has anything to do with the seeming attraction to little sisters or charcater design is a question for another topic

 

[ayase]

Cheers for that Rui. :thumb:

Moe... by its very definition it is impossible to dislike it. It's not a character type, rather a feeling felt towards certain characters. Not everyone will feel moe for the same characters. It's a hard feeling to give a description of, but for me it's the feeling of the want to cheer them on, you feel happy when they feel happy.

I've always though of it as the 'aww didums' feeling. The desire to protect and help said character.

I concur. "Impossible to dislike it" is an odd, if slightly ambiguous way of putting it. I have an aversion to the weak or helpless characters most often considered moe which makes me dislike them. If someone can't take care of themselves it's unlikely I'm going to warm to them. And as for feeling 'moe' for characters I like... I honestly don't think I do.

That's not to say things don't move me, or that I'm not happy for characters. I'm frequently happy to the extent of being moved to tears for Noriko at the end of Gunbuster. Noriko can be quite helpless at times it's true, she has a lot of Shinji-like traits but if it weren't for Coach, Kazumi and Jung (the strong characters) being there to push her to stop feeling helpless, take control of her life and yes, grow up then she wouldn't be nearly as good a character. The point at which I'm cheering Noriko on the most is her speech in the core of Buster Machine III when she is at her most independent and mature, when she is being the strongest. That's what attracts me to characters the most, and I'm pretty sure that doesn't give me a 'moe' feeling.

I feel as though these days, the prevalent attitude is less "Come on, grow up, take care of yourself (Try your best! Aim for the top! etc.)" and more "Remain child-like and others will take care of you". And I don't think this is just in anime, or in Japan.

 

[fabio de lunatico]

"Impossible to dislike it" is an odd, if slightly ambiguous way of putting it. I have an aversion to the weak or helpless characters most often considered moe which makes me dislike them.

I think he means impossible in the sense that it's either something you feel or don't. Certainly it's possible to dislike some of the traits likely to elicit the feelings in the first place. I guess there's a line between sympathy or empathy or fondness and "moe", though I'm not sure where that line is. Perhaps one just knows if and when one crosses it?

 

[ayase]

This is getting quite interesting. Perhaps it's just different mindsets then - could it be that some people are simply incapable of feeling 'moe'? If those are indeed the key ingredients (which seems plausible) then I think sympathy is probably the area I'm lacking in. The only time I really feel sympathetic towards anything is when I know it is imminently doomed with no hope of salvation - like a hedgehog trapped in a bonfire* (in which case I would avoid getting attached to it for obvious reasons).









*not an Aion reference this time.

 

[Jaymii]

I also think it has to do with your attachment towards fiction. I get more emotionally involved in live action television and films, but that's not to say I've ever cried during something. On that same note, the same people who cry over anime are the type of people could feel moe, I suppose. I tend to detach myself from these worlds and I only care so much if an anime character dies.

It depends on how much you believe in the characters and worlds, I think.

 

[ilmaestro]

Moe... by its very definition it is impossible to dislike it.

I don't even like the idea that moe has enough of a concrete definition to say that it is anything "by its very definition". It's not a genus or something.

Now it seems to mean a shy, clumsy girl often well a Yamato Nadeshiko.

So none of the K-ON! girls, except for maybe Mio? I'd say this definition held more sway around the time of Rei and Evangelion.

 

[Chaz]

Moe... by its very definition it is impossible to dislike it.

It cant be an "official" definition, as it's not in the Oxford Dictionary...
*Que scholars and the odd anime fan throwing japanese dictionaries at Chaz*

Impossible to hate? Nothing is like that. Projects protective feelings? I dont think it's really essential tbh...
Moe doesn't necessarily mean those things. Konata Izumi (Lucky Star) describes Miyuki as "moe" and these are the things she points out:
1) She is clumsy.
2) She is shy/doesn't bring an agressive tone.
3) Boobs? ;o Oh right! I meant overall cuteness (physically).

Then we have characters in Air/Kanon etc - Big eyed, short bodies, pouty etc. As you can see, there's a range within the character types within people's description of moe. I admit, I laughed at the whole "Revy could be moe" idea, as I dont care how upset she is, she'll always throw an aggressive rant/punch/bullet at you.

To me, moe would mean a cute character that emphasises a "sweet" and "innocent" feel to them from a 3rd person's view-point. Even when they're angry, they dont come across as ground-and-pound, but more like an annoyed glare that could knock you back a step or 2.

The point at which I'm cheering Noriko on the most is her speech in the core of Buster Machine III when she is at her most independent and mature, when she is being the strongest. That's what attracts me to characters the most, and I'm pretty sure that doesn't give me a 'moe' feeling.

I know what ya mean about the whole maturing personality, and I also dont regard that as a moe trait. That, to me, would be the story building drama and pumping you up for the grand finale (which is typical of that kind of show).

But I bet it's that kind of feeling (amoungst other "overwhelming" responses) that some fans may start to get confused with moe and so build up their own view of it. That's what really causes the "moe wars" between one fan and another - OMG, she is so moe! Erm, no she aint! She's not -insert trait- enough!

I just like to keep these things simple, but I guess that can even go a long way with people.

 

[Zin5ki]

This is getting quite interesting. Perhaps it's just different mindsets then - could it be that some people are simply incapable of feeling 'moe'?

I also think it has to do with your attachment towards fiction.

My interpretation of aesthetic phenomena such as this is very strong in one way, and very weak in another.
All the 'qualities' (to use a fairly undaunting word) of fiction and similar expressive works, be they moe or anything else by which a viewer could be affected, are not just influenced by the way a given viewer is 'disposed', but established by the viewer's personal dispositions in their entirety. At least, that's what I say.
In this context, some people are disposed to like moe, others to hate it. If some person proclaims their enjoyment for it, the truth of such utterances correspond to there being a relationship between their favourite titles and how they affect them— something true in their case, but false in the case of other people.
Of course, tastes can change. That is to say, a person's dispositions may alter through certain experiences. Somebody may enter new phases and grow out of old ones, and in such cases, the relationship between the anime and their psychological states alters accordingly.

Whether moe is endearing, absorbing, annoying or repulsive is, for anybody who has any sentiment about it, constituted by how they're currently 'geared' to react to something. It's not a matter of what goes on in the anime, instead being a matter of what goes on in the viewers.

Other people here may hold a different view on aesthetic issues such as this however. Be that the case, then some interesting debate could result.